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lifter or push rod noise

Started by tenorhog, January 09, 2019, 11:04:17 AM

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tenorhog

2005 Springer Softail classic, carb

Just had a cam job done
woods 555
woods lifters
SE adj. pushrods, new tensioners, cam plate, oil pump

Bike sounded great after tune, drove it for 20 min, and sounds very clanky in push rod area of front cylinder. I also noted that the push rods on my 08 Dyna seem to be very tight and I can barely wiggle them, as apposed to the new ones in this softail that I can wiggle by hand...I assume I can adjust those? or is there a break intake for the lifters that would case the noice? My mechanic actually doesn't like the SE push rods and thinks they are hard to adjust. COULD I JUST DO THIS EASILY??
Thanks!! Ben

topcat3815

If the lifter is under load it will very tight once it gets on the heel of the cam they spin freely. I would suggest trying to learn more about adjusting your lifters if you havent done this before.

Pete_Vit

he may not like them because of the time needed to adjust them properly  :nix:
I have the Rivara Chrome Molly adjustables with 40 threads per inch, so yeah a PIA to get right
they should not spin real freely but should spin some if that makes sense?

https://www.sscycle.com/tech-info/instructions-data/pushrod-adjustment

I'm sure you got this tech-info with the pushrods but just incase  :wink: you didn't
93 XLH1200 - 96 FXSTS - 2010 Ultra Glide Classic
www.facebook.com/harleypartsch

moose

2 other things to check make sure the push rod is not hitting the top of the tube you will see rubmarks on the pushrod if it is

another noise could be rocker arm noise   check rocker lockers   they are supporters here
Moose aka Glenn-

Pete_Vit

Shane Conley has a great instructional video

https://youtu.be/uV3gKbUZKG0   :up:

93 XLH1200 - 96 FXSTS - 2010 Ultra Glide Classic
www.facebook.com/harleypartsch

Rockout Rocker Products

Could be rocker shaft noise... there is a cure  :smiled:
www.rockout.biz Stop the top end TAPPING!!

Pete_Vit

93 XLH1200 - 96 FXSTS - 2010 Ultra Glide Classic
www.facebook.com/harleypartsch

scootertrash1

Used to be in my EVO days was to allow time for bleed down of the lifter while running the valve adjustments. I think it was to allow 10 minutes before moving on. If not, your adjustment will be way to tight and probably bend one of your brand new SE push rods. I learned the hard way all those years ago. Never told anyone till now!!

doctorevil

I would take it back.tell him this is unacceptable.i would bet there is not enough preload. BobWoods says on his lifters and cams 24tpi pushrods are to be adjusted 3 turns+2 flats i have always followed this and the results are quiet valvetrain.

doctorevil

rotate the engine put the cam on baseline, both lifters at there lowest point. the pushrods should rotate but you should not be able to move them .

tenorhog


doctorevil

Please someone correct me if i am wrong. You did not mention any headwork done. i have seen some 04  manufactured 05 dynas with the 04 heads. 555 lift is a little much for these heads. the 05 heads should have beehive springs,depending upon age those are just acceptable for 555 lift. i would update the springs.

tenorhog

Doctorevil. Interesting. I had not head that 05 models had 04 springs. I did not do headwork, and according to Bob wood my springs were fine as stock. I will run like this for a few years, and someday do a top end job. Its a daily rider for me.

doctorevil

I think he would have noticed.04 -05 was the change in the heads mostly valve stem size and the springs to behive. i have seen a couple 04 manufactured 05 dynas with the early heads.must have been leftover 04 88". i have done a lot of dynas.

Hillside Motorcycle

We use S&S lifters here, and load them .140"-.150".
Works well.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Boe Cole

I have the SE rods in my 2011 103RGU.  They are easy to adjust.  When the lifters are at their low point, adjust out any lash by hand and then go 15 flats which is really 2.5 whole turns.  When the adjusted rod is easy to turn by finger, then move on to the next rod.  Each rod should only take 10-15 minutes from start to finish.  The most important thing is to allow the lifter to bleed down before moving on to the next rod.  Not doing that could lead to a bent valve or piston damage or rod damage = none of which you want.
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

doctorevil

 Boe like hillside said they set .140" to .150" load. se 24tpi pushrods set at 2.5 turns is only .104" preload minimum is .120." Even when i set limited travel lifters after backing off i am close to .110"

Boe Cole

Quote from: doctorevil on January 10, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
Boe like hillside said they set .140" to .150" load. se 24tpi pushrods set at 2.5 turns is only .104" preload minimum is .120." Even when i set limited travel lifters after backing off i am close to .110"

I am using the hd se rods with a set of replacement lifters i got from j&p which called for the 15 flats.  Doctorevil has an excellent point that I really did not think about as to lifter specs and what they call for as to preload and total travel which needs to be considered and the tpi's converted to fractions of an inch.  Different set ups require different number of turns.  As I recall, the hd's are 32tpi's so each full turn would be 0.0315".  To hit the preload minimum of 0.120, it would take a minimum of 3.8 turns - assuming my math is correct.  Just have to do the math unless the lifters come with instructions.  Thanks for correction/elaboration.
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Hossamania

Now you've got me curious as to which lifters you have.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Boe Cole

Quote from: Hossamania on January 11, 2019, 10:10:55 AM
Now you've got me curious as to which lifters you have.

Me too!!!!  Hopefully I still have the specs on them at home.  I'm now concerned that I may have screwed up.  As i recall, they cost approximately $120 from j&p in Daytona about two years ago when I got them.  It may have been at bikeweek in March but other than being a little noisy, they have been ok.  I am not looking forward to having to readjust them, however I want them adjusted properly and if they are not, I'll fix it.

I'll get back with an update.
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Hossamania

Adjusting the pushrods is not too difficult. If I can do it, any monkey can do it. I will admit, I was nervous the first time, and still get a little nervous, just because it's not something I do on a regular basis. Once you get in there, you'll have peace of mind that they are right.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Boe Cole

Quote from: Hossamania on January 11, 2019, 10:10:55 AM
Now you've got me curious as to which lifters you have.

Now I'm really confused.  Got the 15 flat information from HD High Performance Quick-Install Adjustable Pushrods which called for 15 flats with (I guess) standard hd lifters.  The S&S cycle instructions for the MR103 cams that I have in the bike call for 4 turs (24 flats).  I can't find the paperwork on the replacement lifters I installed when I installed the cams but i got them from j&p in daytona but they were not the most expensive lifters that they sold - sort of in the middle on price.  I do not recall seeing any brand on them so they were generic at best.  I've been running them at 15 flats (2.5 turns) and other than being noisy, they have performed ok.  Suggestions / thoughts???

BTW - my apologies if I've hijacked the orginal op's thread - it certain ally was not intentional.
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

doctorevil

Boe you are getting to caught up on the brand of lifters. I have done a lot of budget builds with delphi , comp 850-1, even 8 dollar sealed power lifters all set at min .120"most of these are club bikes and are beat on. all failures are related to evo filter, dirty oil maintenance if you get my drift and pushrods do come loose. dont overthink it just follow the tpi chart and set the preload on the cam base min.120" to .150". I dont think you have LT lifters that have to be backed off different animal.my preference of lifters are S&S then johnson- hylift. I also use the rockout inserts on every rocker cradle.

Rockout Rocker Products

www.rockout.biz Stop the top end TAPPING!!

Boe Cole

Quote from: doctorevil on January 11, 2019, 09:10:05 PM
Boe you are getting to caught up on the brand of lifters. I have done a lot of budget builds with delphi , comp 850-1, even 8 dollar sealed power lifters all set at min .120"most of these are club bikes and are beat on. all failures are related to evo filter, dirty oil maintenance if you get my drift and pushrods do come loose. dont overthink it just follow the tpi chart and set the preload on the cam base min.120" to .150". I dont think you have LT lifters that have to be backed off different animal.my preference of lifters are S&S then johnson- hylift. I also use the rockout inserts on every rocker cradle.

I think you are right.  I am going to remove the push rod and confirm that its 32tpi and if so, go for 4 turns which would be the .120 preload.  I was thinking that different lifters would have different preload requirements.  Will check back but I think you are absolutely correct.  I'll find out easy enough if the lifter does not bleed down at 4 turns but i doubt that will be the case. 

Appreciate all the feedback on this - have really learned a lot on lifters.  I enjoy working on my bikes and have done all my maintenance for the last 50plus years.  I'm an old (very old) shade tree mechanic.  I actually remember when the automakers came out with pvc valves for cars and all the uproar that caused!!!
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.