Sump hose routing

[a_disalvo]

I have tried every way I could think of to route the crank vent hose. I had one of those PCV valves hooked up and found it sticking so I removed it. I had the hose just pointing down out of the crank, but found a lot of oil going all over that side. I routed the hose up about 4" above the discharge and installed a mesh filter on it. Started raining here in Pa. so I will not test it for a day or so, but curious what others are doing with theirs. It's a 98" stroker FWIW. Thanks, Frank

[david lee]

shouldnt drip oil ?

[Wiseguy]

My 96" Shovel doesn't drip any oil out of the vent hose. Some years ago, Al from S&S tech advised me to retard the breather gear one tooth to get better breathing for how the larger Shovel displacement motors acted. It hasn't leaked a drop.

Wiseguy

[HotRodShovel]

Wiseguy, just so I have this right, retard meaning move the notch counterclockwise or clockwise one tooth? Interesting.  With my notches lined up the only time I leak is when I let it sit too long and it sumps.  Mine is also a 96"

[Wiseguy]

Turn the breather gear counterclockwise. The cam runs backwards off the pinion gear. The breather gear runs off the cam gear, which makes it opposite of that, or forward. So, retarding the breather gear is timing it backwards one tooth, or counterclockwise.
This won't stop it from sumping when it sits for prolonged periods, but it won't drip after parking it from a run.

Wiseguy

[76shuvlinoff]

My 93"er will leave a spot after a run but so far no sumping in the last 30K miles.

Interesting info on retarding the breather Wiseguy. I just hope I actually remember it the next time I'm in there. 

edit to add: my vent line is tied to the right, runs to just over the cross member in front of the rear tire. It has has a Hayden crank vent on it for more than a few years. No reason to mist an O ring chain and sling it all over the WWWs. There's chain wax for that.

[HotRodShovel]

What 76 said describes mine exactly.    Tied off to the right side over the crossmember with a Hayden crank vent.

[packrat56]

      This is what worked for me, S&S reed valve, tapped rocker boxes for 1/8"
hose barb, inside near intake rocker arm. then down to a tee with crank vent hose
to a Spyke krankvent.

    This is on a 103",   If ran it 70-80 mph for a few miles I'd have spot 3-6" dia.
after I did this never a drip

[Wiseguy]

The reed valve works in some setups, but you lose your primary oil return function when using the reed. Although isolating the primary is the way to go, I use the primary oil return function to draw my top end oil from my outside lines and back to the engine case.
I don't remember the name, but there's a company that makes a ramp that fits inside the breather gear. It makes a streamelined path for the oil to be expelled from the breather gear. Older Pan and Shovel cases with less than accurate breather openings could benefit from this.

Wiseguy

[HotRodShovel]

What about us guys who molested the window to open it up as per S&S instructions.  I think its a pretty popular modification.   Does your counterclockwise rotation still work?

[Wiseguy]

The gear adjustment was done to mine using S&S cases. The S&S  instructions for cutting stock cases probably nullifies any need for turning the breather gear back. I'd contact S&S for the answer on that. S&S sells their own breather gear with the mark already moved on the gear so that you time it in the stock fashion.

Wiseguy

[HotRodShovel]

Interesting...I did not know that.  I have an S&S gear in there. 

[remington007]

I thought the current S&S steel breather gears are set up for the retard as they are? I have a ultima gear in mine and they are timed like a stock gear, i did retard mine to achieve the recommended timing. I had some dripping before the change, none after. I have a 4 1/2 inch stroke stock bore 87 inch.

Edit to add. Instruction sheet 51-1101 on S&S's web site lists the change on the breather gear timing.
New spec is open 17* after TDC close 82* after BDC +or- 10*

[Wiseguy]

You must have missed my previous post. S&S breather gears are already timed to one tooth retarded from stock breather timing.

Wiseguy

[76shuvlinoff]

You must have missed my previous post. S&S breather gears are already timed to one tooth retarded from stock breather timing.

Wiseguy

I have been running an S&S long block since late 03 early 04. Think I am good?

[Wiseguy]

I don't have a record of when S&S started making the timing change on their breather gear. Al from S&S tech told me about retarding the gear around 1998 or 1999, so I think you'd be good.

Wiseguy

[HotRodShovel]

Me too, as I said the only time my motor drops oil from the breather is if I let it sit too long and that was only up north after a winter hibernation.

[a_disalvo]

Since I'm the OP, can I go off subject here? HD ran the crank vent hose into the backing plate of the carb. We thought to improve upon that by cutting the hose and pointing it to the ground. Do those Haydon PCV valves do anything??? Thanks, Frank

[Burnout]

I don't think the "power vents" improve anything with any significance especially "bang for the buck", they don't fix anything.
"Don't fix it if it ain't broke"

For the other posts and suggestions.
No filter is needed on the vent hose air is only expelled when the motor is running.
I don't think Mud Dobbers will use it because of the oil.
A filter just collects oil to drip when parked.

Don't let your motor slow idle and smear the pistons, and don't run too much timing and it won't barf much oil.
These are the two most common causes of excess oil expulsion.
Working on the valve timing is most beneficial on strokers but will not do much for a stocker.

[Wiseguy]

British bikes have had to deal with sumping for as long as American bikes. What some guys over there have done is put a valve on the feed line. This can be dangerous, so the trick to this is to place the valve lever in such a way as to block the ignition key with the valve lever. That way you won't be able to start the motor until you open the feed line valve. Not a fix, but it elimnates oil flowing into the lower end while sitting.

Wiseguy

[a_disalvo]

I don't have a problem with sumping, I took the crank vent hose and ran it about 4" above the outlet and installed a mesh filter. After a 110 mile run, the right side of the motor behind the mesh filter was covered with an oil film. What happens if I route the line to the backplate of the carb? Thanks, Frank

[76shuvlinoff]

Since I'm the OP, can I go off subject here? HD ran the crank vent hose into the backing plate of the carb. We thought to improve upon that by cutting the hose and pointing it to the ground. Do those Haydon PCV valves do anything??? Thanks, Frank

I thought it ran to the rear chain....or has it been so long I am thinking about the wrong vent? 

As far as the Hayden crank vent doodad goes. Wasn't it supposed to maintain a vacuum on the case, reduce oil seepage, help the pistons on the down stroke, cure the heartbreak of psoriasis and get your high school girlfriend to come back?
I know mine will occasionally fart when I shut the bike down so there is an opportunity for humor.

[Wiseguy]

Just my opinion, but I'd think that running the breather hose to the carb backing plate us a good way to cook the oil onto the piston tops and the underside of the valves. That's the EPA's way of cleaning up the environment. If they wanted to do that, then they could start with all the diesel trucks and buses that dump that black exhaust cloud at every traffic light as they get underway.

Wiseguy

[a_disalvo]

Does the lenght of the hose matter? Thought about routing it to the end of the swingarm???

[Wiseguy]

You want to maintain as low a restriction as possible for the breather line. The gear is timed to try to take the most advantage of the pistons expelling the air from the cases. Screens, filters, Crank Vent gizmos, and long lines all hold that air back a little. Stock or mildly built motors can get away with these things to an extent, but strokers are fighting a close battle getting the cases rid of lower end pressure. I wouldn't go much past the swingarm pivot with a stroker. Stock stroke motors have less lower end pressure, so a longer line might be okay. Start longer, and trim it back if you notice any excess dribbling when it's shut down.

Wiseguy

[a_disalvo]

Since it is 98", I guess I'll just route line to the side of the frame near the kick start, and ignore the oil spots when I shut it down. Thanks, Frank

[crock]

Been running a 98 for 4 years and several thousand miles now. I ran it across the trans mounting plate an kinda on the chain. never a drip that I've ever seen but the mist/fumes keeps a film on the chain. I'm running an o-ring but I figure "Long live the sprockets"

[76shuvlinoff]

Been running a 98 for 4 years and several thousand miles now. I ran it across the trans mounting plate an kinda on the chain. never a drip that I've ever seen but the mist/fumes keeps a film on the chain. I'm running an o-ring but I figure "Long live the sprockets"

After I rerouted the hose I  started wiping the chain down with WD40 then applying chain wax a few times a season.

[a_disalvo]

Been using chain wax for years!!! That stuff don't fly off!!! Frank