Andrews 57H installed....some questions

[rauchman]

Greetings,

I'm on a 2013 Switchback and installed Andews 57H cams a couple of years ago (S&S adjustable rods & Tappets, Timken Bearings).  I'm using the V&H FP3 and SE air cleaners.

Some questions if you don't mind.  While I'm sure a pro tuner would get the bike running optimally, I like to tinker and ideally, I'm looking for solutions that I can do myself.  I "think" if I can get the below issues resolved, I'll be good to go.  Having said that, I'm considering have a pro tune the bike.  I'm in Bergen County, NJ and the closest tuner I know of is Black Hills in Rockaway, NJ.

- Since installation, I've gotten a heavy exhaust smell.  Is there a way to alleviate that?  I'm considering opening everything up to make sure pushrod lengths are correct.  I'm pretty sure they are and used # of turn recommendations from S&S and some folks on this site.
- While nice in the mid to upper revs, I've felt I've lost some pull on the bottom end.  Is this just tuning the bike better, or should I be looking at a different cam to get back a little low-mid zonk?  Looking at Cycle Rama 570-2's.  Do these tune easily?
- Considering putting in a thinner head gasket.  Would this give me back some low end?  I'm guessing this would also give a smidge for overall power as well?
- Since installation, bike runs a little rough in the low revs.  I'm guessing better tuning would alleviate?  Any FP3 experts out there for recommendations on optimal settings?
- Considering getting a different tuner.  I love the user friendliness of the FP3 (Bluetooth to the IPhone), but doubt I'm getting optimal tuning as compared to a PV or TTS.  For the home mechanic, are there advantages to either of these tuners for ease of use?

As mentioned, I've been riding with this setup for about 3 years now.  I'd like to get the exhaust, less than smooth low rev performance and lack of low end hit resolved. 

[rigidthumper]

I'd schedule dyno time to measure what you have, and help you get where you want to be.

[sfmichael]

Probably not the best choice for a bolt-in cam. Andrews 48 might have served you better.

CR570-2 is also a great choice for a bolt-in.

Real dyno tune can make a world of difference as will the exhaust system, you don't mention what you're running. Mild builds favor a smaller baffle / exhaust opening to keep exhaust velocity high and aid in cylinder scavenging and fill.

[sfmichael]

I'd schedule dyno time to measure what you have, and help you get where you want to be.

great advice 

[BVHOG]

You bought the bike, you bought the parts now get the most out of that first investment with a real dyno tune.

[MikeL]

Have you tried contacting Vance & Hines? They may be able to send you a tune. Your build isn't one that requires a $400+ tuner.
I for 1 use a Dobeck EJK on my 2007 ultra Yes I maybe leaving power on the table but it works for me like no decel pop, cooler running and decent MPG and it costed less than $250.
A $400+ tuner may be better especially if you intend to upgrade heads, compression, cams, or better exhaust.
As for Blackhills Ken I have used him before. Contact him and ask about your fuel pac . I know for sure he does power commander products and he is busy.

                                                                                                       MIKE

[rauchman]

I'd schedule dyno time to measure what you have, and help you get where you want to be.

great advice 

First off, thanks for everyone's posts....

I'm running a V&H ProPipe w/ quiet baffle installed.  Recommendations on a quieter exhaust than stock ProPipe would be appreciated as well.

[PoorUB]

First thing is the 57's like more compression  than stock.10.3-10.5 to 1. Plus guys here will recommend getting  a different  tuning device other than the FP3.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Bump the compression to optimize the cam's ability, find a good tuner in your area, and follow his advice.

[Badgerbill]

Hi, I have a 2014 Heritage and did exactly the same. 57H, se adjustables, FP3 and Big Shot Longs (not ideal for tuning). I fitted the cams a couple of years ago and using the FP3 had quite a good state of tune. It was a bit lumpy at low revs and had popping back on decel, but it was bearable. I contacted V & H re the lumpiness and they sent me a couple of downloads which seemed to help....... But it wasn't perfect and I got to the stage that I think you're at now. So I bit the bullet and had the heads ported, 30 thou head gaskets and Power Vision tuned at Dynojet in UK. I can't put a Dyno sheet on because it's DIN smoothing and isn't allowed on this forum, but it's 112 for Torque and 97 for HP. It now runs a lot smoother and pulls like a train...... But it cost me £1400 to do it..... I'd try V & H first with an amended map..... other than that, prepare to shell out some money (the PV licence and Dyno tune came to £450 alone!)

[r0de_runr]

First I would contact V&H with your questions for a custom tune from them.  If that doesn't solve your concerns then perhaps drop the nearly $1000 for a flash tuner and dyno tune by a competent tuner.

I'm very happy with my FP3 knowing that I left a little HP/TQ on the table. Driveablity is perfect for me.

[sfmichael]

A tune doesn't have to cost a grand with hardware...most shops charge $300-$500 for their time and dyno and a PV license can usually be bought for around $200

The actual hardware is optional

The 57's will benefit from more compression but if that's not in the cards then chose a pipe or baffle you can live with and get a real tune

[PoorUB]

If the OP doesn't want to pull the heads different cams like the CR570-2 and a tune would  be an option. The 57's are gonna be a bit soft on the low end unless he bumps the compression.

[Hilly13]

I'll stick my neck out here, 57's in a 103 used to be as common as cow dung in a paddock, yep as a bolt in they are not perfect but even so they go ok tuned right, on that, I'm not a fan of the FP3 but it should be fine in this application, V&H have just released a manual for the FP3 that spells out how to use its functions, they also claim with there latest software that the unit is dyno friendly, their blurb not mine, so to the OP, get a copy of the manual and have a read, to me your bike sounds like it just needs a tune, do it yourself or dyno is up to you.

Edit, is you copy this text line into your browser it should take you to the manual....

https://fuelpak.vanceandhines.com/me..._2019_REVB.pdf

[jsachs1]

My opinion.
1- Those cams are great. They also leave room to make more power when "biko-boredom sets in.
2- Loose the Fuelpak, and let Blackhills Ken map the bike properly.
John

[838]

If it were my bike I wouldn't dish out the funds to go another bolt in route. You have a cam that can handle more than what your giving it. Spend extra on giving it what it wants instead, don't double up investing in another (bolt in) cam. Little head porting and cc'd to the best  compression and tune it (not autotune). Your looking at similar investment vs. new cam install and you'll have a ride that delivers the torque earlier and carries out further than a bolt it can or would with stock heads. Headwork (along with cc to get the right compression) and it'll run great!

If your a do-it-yourselfer there is a lot of software out there to take advantage of and the power vision can do extensive data logging.

[Mirrmu]

dont buy any cams or different tuner everything you have is fine

install the head gasket you have

you wont get much assistance about actually changing your map here as you can see from the replies

but if you like to fiddle around you can examine start-up, idle, cruise, high rpm areas and concentrate on one area at a time. Even it it takes a month to fiddle around with it.

spark plugs are a great indicator

doesnt matter what tuner you have they are loading to the ECM fuel and timing information to run an internal combustion engine

I fine the pro-pipe to be reasonably quiet and a good performer. You could wrap some extra fibreglass on baffle.

[aogmitch]

Was running the FP3 on my '12 Heritage with V&H Big Shot Staggered pipes and SE air cleaner. Ran very well. Then decided to do cams and went with the 57h's. I also ordered a PV with a pre-loaded tune. Bike ran good, but I knew it could be better. I emailed Dynojet and they sent me a different tune to try. That one was worse. I then reloaded the FP3 with the new cam info. It actually ran the best, but still wasn't quite right. Finally did a dyno tune with the PV. Night and day from the other tunes. Bike runs real strong now from the bottom to the top, very smooth and mpg's are back in the 40's again. The other tunes I was trying were only giving me low to mid 30's on mpgs. I did try some auto tunes with the PV from the original tune, but for what ever reasons, the bike was getting worse.

[bigfoot5x]

According to Andrews the 57's are very similar to the 54's. The 54's require a little more compression and worked great in a 103 that started out as a 96" but part of that was because the new pistons increased the compression. Andrews came out with the 57's when Harley went to the 103" engine in everything. The design change was supposed to compensate for the slightly lower compression. I put the 57's in a stock 2013 103" engine. It  has not been dynoed but the new bike pulled as strong as my old 103" with the 54's. I use the Thundermax tuner. Maybe that is the difference. The torque and hp are increased across the board from 2500 rpm up. I have no rideability issues. No stumble, no pop, no nothing.

[doctorevil]

57 with 4 degrees and a dyno tune is a great combo. Wont break the bank .

[838]

57 with 4 degrees and a dyno tune is a great combo. Wont break the bank .

I'd like to see the comparison of your idea vs an Andrews 48 straight up in the same 103"

[sportbikeco]

Do you have the tune first set for 57h either by v&h or through the app?  (I think a recent update allows more cam selections).  Do you have a all current updates applied?  Have you ran auto tune and finalaized tune after learning a good amount of squares?


I run fp3 on a 107 w/ se204 and it runs very well.

[PoorUB]

57 with 4 degrees and a dyno tune is a great combo. Wont break the bank .

I'd like to see the comparison of your idea vs an Andrews 48 straight up in the same 103"

The 48's will come a bit faster and probably more torque, then around 2,500-3,000 RPM the 57's should pass the 48's as they fall off. The 48's with less duration, earlier close and less lift should do better at low RPM. The one variable is compression, the 57's like more compression than stock.

[doctorevil]

He already has the 57. good cam for future upgrades.In lieu of the increasing compression now 4 degrees will increase the ccp.  He can pay for his PV license and a gear have good riding bike. I enjoy teaching guys and finding solutions to save money. To answer your question the 48 has always felt seat of the pants an out of breath cam. The 10degrees in valve closing has a big effect how those two cams feel.

[doctorevil]

PoorUB