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FXR twin cam inner primary

Started by HighLiner, February 17, 2019, 05:03:39 PM

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HighLiner

Since STD and Delkron seem to no longer be in business, what's the next best option?

turboprop

Quote from: HighLiner on February 17, 2019, 05:03:39 PM
Since STD and Delkron seem to no longer be in business, what's the next best option?

STD and Delkron aren't really a factor in this as they simply made stronger copies of the oem stuff.

IME, your opening question does not contain enough data points for anyone to answer.

If the TC/FXR conversion were to be based on a '99--'00 bagger transmission then any year FXR inner primary will bolt on. The '94 and up inner is like the holy grail, regardless of brand. If the project uses a trans case from a '01 or later 5speed than modifications will be required as the bolt patterns on the trans-inner primary interface changed. If the project is based on a six speed FL case the mods are more involved. Much easier to start this type of project with a '99-'00 trans case and build around it. Several shops offer a conversion service or various screwball mouse traps. I won't endorse any of them as everyone I have seen (in person) either leaked or was weird.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

HighLiner

Starting with a bare frame so all my options are open.

HighLiner

How much harder is it to get the later model twin cam stuff to fit?

Admiral Akbar

So whats wrong with using a bagger primary?  No hole for the shifter?

turboprop

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 19, 2019, 09:48:42 AM
So whats wrong with using a bagger primary?  No hole for the shifter?

Yes.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

HighLiner

Quote from: turboprop on February 19, 2019, 10:32:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 19, 2019, 09:48:42 AM
So whats wrong with using a bagger primary?  No hole for the shifter?

Yes.

I understand there is a guy local to me that mods the bagger primaries for mid controls

Admiral Akbar

Quote from: HighLiner on February 19, 2019, 06:48:07 PM
Quote from: turboprop on February 19, 2019, 10:32:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 19, 2019, 09:48:42 AM
So whats wrong with using a bagger primary?  No hole for the shifter?

Yes.

I understand there is a guy local to me that mods the bagger primaries for mid controls

It's not hard to do.  One piece aluminum tube with O ring and threaded end, locate hole with FXR inspection cover and cut hole in inner primary, face both sides, custom nut on the back.   Less chance of leaking compared to the stock setup.

turboprop

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 20, 2019, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: HighLiner on February 19, 2019, 06:48:07 PM
Quote from: turboprop on February 19, 2019, 10:32:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 19, 2019, 09:48:42 AM
So whats wrong with using a bagger primary?  No hole for the shifter?

Yes.

I understand there is a guy local to me that mods the bagger primaries for mid controls

It's not hard to do.  One piece aluminum tube with O ring and threaded end, locate hole with FXR inspection cover and cut hole in inner primary, face both sides, custom nut on the back.   Less chance of leaking compared to the stock setup.

Yea, thats all there is to it. <smile>

Take a look at the newer bagger primary cases and the air gap between them and the engine case in this area. Also look at where the tube would be located in relation to the primary to engine mounting bolts. There is also the issue of sealing the tube to the outer cover with an inner surface that is not square to the tube nor is it thick enough to allow for spot facing.

Have seen many skilled machinists attempt this. Have only seen a couple be successful and most of them said they wouldn't do another.

This issue usually comes up because someone wants to twin cam an FXR and got a good deal a bagger driver train. I get bombarded with questions about this. Like a good PM, I typically advise newcomers to develop a plan before buying hardware, but they never do. Same with the sport bike inverted forks on harleys. It's doable. Heck, I have done it a few times,  but it's not easy or cheap without making some serious compromises. Again, those that want to do it have almost always already purchased a fork before developing a plan or asking questions. Stupid is supposed to hurt.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Admiral Akbar

Well. it sounds like you done more then me. I've only done one and thought it was pretty easy.  Flat surface is about 1/8 inch thick.

turboprop

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 20, 2019, 11:26:04 AM
Well. it sounds like you done more then me. I've only done one and thought it was pretty easy.  Flat surface is about 1/8 inch thick.

I think I have done eight FXR/TC conversions. Three of my own and five for close friends. Mine all used the '99-'00 trans case, so did a couple of the others. We all have those buddies that do things the hard way. For the six speed models, there are several different primary case designs. Too many for me to keep up or care about, but will say that they all ave their own issues to overcome. I can say that the inside of the outer covers are NOT parallel to the inside of the inner case. Doing these mods are easy for you as you have skills and the means to do it. Having said that, just about everyone I have spoken with that bought the 'Good deal FL drive train' did so because they thought the 96" or 103" and shitty six speed somehow added value. Then reality hit and they start asking in online forums or facebook groups how to do the mods. I had one from FabKevin that a guy brought for me to use. It was well made and worked initially. He moved away and lost contact so not sure how it worked long term. Another buddy brought one from on line reseller that offers the service. Not only did it leak, but the design for the shifter shaft and lever was horrible. Really hard to beat the '99-'00 trans case and the 91 and up FXR specific inner primar case. The '94 and up inner with the late TC cover (5-Bolt Derby) is the holy rail.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Admiral Akbar

Quote from: turboprop on February 20, 2019, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 20, 2019, 11:26:04 AM
Well. it sounds like you done more then me. I've only done one and thought it was pretty easy.  Flat surface is about 1/8 inch thick.

I think I have done eight FXR/TC conversions. Three of my own and five for close friends. Mine all used the '99-'00 trans case, so did a couple of the others. We all have those buddies that do things the hard way. For the six speed models, there are several different primary case designs. Too many for me to keep up or care about, but will say that they all ave their own issues to overcome. I can say that the inside of the outer covers are NOT parallel to the inside of the inner case. Doing these mods are easy for you as you have skills and the means to do it. Having said that, just about everyone I have spoken with that bought the 'Good deal FL drive train' did so because they thought the 96" or 103" and shitty six speed somehow added value. Then reality hit and they start asking in online forums or facebook groups how to do the mods. I had one from FabKevin that a guy brought for me to use. It was well made and worked initially. He moved away and lost contact so not sure how it worked long term. Another buddy brought one from on line reseller that offers the service. Not only did it leak, but the design for the shifter shaft and lever was horrible. Really hard to beat the '99-'00 trans case and the 91 and up FXR specific inner primar case. The '94 and up inner with the late TC cover (5-Bolt Derby) is the holy rail.

Holy rail is pretty funny.. Sounds like you really haven't tried to modify an 99 to 2006 bagger primary case.   It's thin but can be cut flat on both sides.   Don't know about 07-up cases. Looks like someone makes a case for those but really don't know how well they work.  Have not done an 07-up.  The dyna shift arm can be utilized.

JW113

Question from the peanut galley, not that this helps the OP with is question.

If you have an FXR, why a TwinCam engine when you can buy a 140" evo-like engine that will "bolt in"?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

HighLiner

I'm after the easiest way to make the conversion.  It's a frame up build so everything is open for suggestion but I do plan on making some HP.  So is the V-Twin mfg inner primary an acceptable product?

turboprop

Quote from: JW113 on February 21, 2019, 06:51:11 PM
Question from the peanut galley, not that this helps the OP with is question.

If you have an FXR, why a TwinCam engine when you can buy a 140" evo-like engine that will "bolt in"?

-JW

Yea, try bolting that 140" engine into an FXR frame. Doesn't fit. But there are other smaller eco like crates that will. This is really a discussion that belongs in one of the countless evo vs twin cam debates that already exist on this forum.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

turboprop

Quote from: HighLiner on February 22, 2019, 05:28:22 AM
I'm after the easiest way to make the conversion.  It's a frame up build so everything is open for suggestion but I do plan on making some HP.  So is the V-Twin mfg inner primary an acceptable product?

I have used the V-Twin FXR inner primary once and thought it fit very well. Much better than the beloved Delkron cases I have used. Some of my friends in the FXR community report similar experiences with this inner primary case. One thing to consider is unlike the evo based drivetrain, the twin cam drivetrain does not put the same type or level of stress on the primary case. Look at how the engine mates to the transmission in both platforms. The TC interface is much more stable than the evo.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

turboprop

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 21, 2019, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: turboprop on February 20, 2019, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on February 20, 2019, 11:26:04 AM
Well. it sounds like you done more then me. I've only done one and thought it was pretty easy.  Flat surface is about 1/8 inch thick.

I think I have done eight FXR/TC conversions. Three of my own and five for close friends. Mine all used the '99-'00 trans case, so did a couple of the others. We all have those buddies that do things the hard way. For the six speed models, there are several different primary case designs. Too many for me to keep up or care about, but will say that they all ave their own issues to overcome. I can say that the inside of the outer covers are NOT parallel to the inside of the inner case. Doing these mods are easy for you as you have skills and the means to do it. Having said that, just about everyone I have spoken with that bought the 'Good deal FL drive train' did so because they thought the 96" or 103" and shitty six speed somehow added value. Then reality hit and they start asking in online forums or facebook groups how to do the mods. I had one from FabKevin that a guy brought for me to use. It was well made and worked initially. He moved away and lost contact so not sure how it worked long term. Another buddy brought one from on line reseller that offers the service. Not only did it leak, but the design for the shifter shaft and lever was horrible. Really hard to beat the '99-'00 trans case and the 91 and up FXR specific inner primar case. The '94 and up inner with the late TC cover (5-Bolt Derby) is the holy rail.

Holy rail is pretty funny.. Sounds like you really haven't tried to modify an 99 to 2006 bagger primary case.   It's thin but can be cut flat on both sides.   Don't know about 07-up cases. Looks like someone makes a case for those but really don't know how well they work.  Have not done an 07-up.  The dyna shift arm can be utilized.

Well, actually I have. So have several of my close friends. I have attempted it three times with the '99-'06 and twice with the '07 and up stuff. The earlier stuff is easier, but not I would not say it is easy. The key issues are getting the inner hole aligned with the hole in the inspection cover and getting them both to seal. If it were easy there would not be countless guys in the FXR community trying to crack this nut.

Perhaps you could tool up and offer it as a service? I know many that would gladly pay to have an inner machined properly. I could probably put together a business plan for this in fifteen minutes and three napkins.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

HighLiner

How would one identify a 94-up inner?