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Clutch Slipping

Started by Deye76, October 27, 2018, 07:49:26 AM

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Deye76

October 27, 2018, 07:49:26 AM Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 08:00:43 AM by Deye76
113" Ultima in a 92'FXR, new Energy One extra plate clutch with the heavier spring, slips really bad at about 4500 RPM. Is a Bandit needed? The cost of VPP is almost as much as a Bandit Sportsman, by the time I purchase a new clutch pack I'll have more invested than a Bandit. Are there any other alternatives like a extra plate Barnett that would hold?
Clutch adjustment is not the culprit here.   
Edit: I've never had a clutch this bad.
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

John/1

I have the superclutch by Bandit Machine best in the industry hands down.

turboprop

Quote from: Deye76 on October 27, 2018, 07:49:26 AM
113" Ultima in a 92'FXR, new Energy One extra plate clutch with the heavier spring, slips really bad at about 4500 RPM. Is a Bandit needed? The cost of VPP is almost as much as a Bandit Sportsman, by the time I purchase a new clutch pack I'll have more invested than a Bandit. Are there any other alternatives like a extra plate Barnett that would hold?
Clutch adjustment is not the culprit here.   
Edit: I've never had a clutch this bad.

Depends on what you want to do. I have bikes with both, a Bandit Sportsman and a '98 and up oem everything w/VPC98. Two very different animals. The bagger guys like the Sportsman because there is no slip at a low RPMs, but it is like a switch, open close. Thats it. The VPC is more of a performance clutch. It will slip at low RPM in a heavy bike. No question about it, it will. But it also makes it much easier launch. In a light bike your FXR, the slip will be negligible until you squeeze it. During everyday riding it will be locked up pretty good by 4,500 rpm.

Will add that most clutch discussions on this page leave out the weight of the bike (load) and the type of riding. Power input is only one side of the clutch equation. Most everything about clutches from the bagger crowd is irrelevant for lighter weight bikes.

I have a VPC and heavy spring for a '98 and up that you are welcome to try before you buy one.

Note to Admins, no need to delete this post as mine is not for sale, just for loan. 
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Deye76

Appreciate the offer, that's very generous, but I'd prefer to dis asseble and assemble once if possible. I'm familiar with a VPC and stock clutch from my TwinCam. Will a 98' and later clutch pack fit in a 92' basket?
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

turboprop

Quote from: Deye76 on October 28, 2018, 04:20:07 AM
Appreciate the offer, that's very generous, but I'd prefer to dis asseble and assemble once if possible. I'm familiar with a VPC and stock clutch from my TwinCam. Will a 98' and later clutch pack fit in a 92' basket?

No it will not. But, that '98 and up clutch basket & hub is so much better than the '97 and down stuff. Will bolt in to your FXR primary case with just a ring gear change. I would not spend one dime on that '97 and down clutch, especially if you like to tinker.

PS - I think our friend Larry has an extra '98 clutch.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

hbkeith

Quote from: turboprop on October 28, 2018, 05:38:16 AM
Quote from: Deye76 on October 28, 2018, 04:20:07 AM
Appreciate the offer, that's very generous, but I'd prefer to dis asseble and assemble once if possible. I'm familiar with a VPC and stock clutch from my TwinCam. Will a 98' and later clutch pack fit in a 92' basket?

No it will not. But, that '98 and up clutch basket & hub is so much better than the '97 and down stuff. Will bolt in to your FXR primary case with just a ring gear change. I would not spend one dime on that '97 and down clutch, especially if you like to tinker.

PS - I think our friend Larry has an extra '98 clutch.
So to upgrade correctly , a 98+ Hub and Basket from any touring model ? and which Ring Gear ? still use stock 92 Starter ?

turboprop

Quote from: hbkeith on October 29, 2018, 01:20:49 AM
Quote from: turboprop on October 28, 2018, 05:38:16 AM
Quote from: Deye76 on October 28, 2018, 04:20:07 AM
Appreciate the offer, that's very generous, but I'd prefer to dis asseble and assemble once if possible. I'm familiar with a VPC and stock clutch from my TwinCam. Will a 98' and later clutch pack fit in a 92' basket?

No it will not. But, that '98 and up clutch basket & hub is so much better than the '97 and down stuff. Will bolt in to your FXR primary case with just a ring gear change. I would not spend one dime on that '97 and down clutch, especially if you like to tinker.

PS - I think our friend Larry has an extra '98 clutch.
So to upgrade correctly , a 98+ Hub and Basket from any touring model ? and which Ring Gear ? still use stock 92 Starter ?

66 tooth ring gear designed for the '98 and up basket. A bunch of companies sell them. Will also need the appropriate front sprocket as the '98 and up stuff came with 36 tooth (a couple years came with 37). The factory combos are 24/37 or 25/36. The '98 and up clutch canoe sourced from any big twin, not just touring models. The stock '92 starter can remain in place. No need to change it unless the engine requires more torque to spin it. This clutch upgrade will not require more torque, but engine mods, etc.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

hbkeith

so if got a 98+ hub & basket with a 36 tooth sprocket , then would need a 25 tooth engine ( compensator) sprocket for a 92 ? , im slow sometimes Ed

Ironheadmike

Wondering what fluid are you using ? I run Slick Trick original  with an energy one clutch and the heavier spring in my 92 softail with a 113 and I never had slippage .

Deye76

Been running B&M Trick shift original.

East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

Burnout

A Sportsman clutch is like sticking it in half way!   :smiled:

The full Bandit clutch is good for ~140hp and is built to be abused (slipped).
Even though it has more grip it, also has a lighter pull that a stock clutch, plus it is very easy to modulate.

Be warned, a chain final drive almost becomes a necessity because that clutch grabs so hard it will rip the teeth right off the belt.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

turboprop

Quote from: hbkeith on October 29, 2018, 07:51:23 AM
so if got a 98+ hub & basket with a 36 tooth sprocket , then would need a 25 tooth engine ( compensator) sprocket for a 92 ? , im slow sometimes Ed

Yes. You would also need to change the ring gear on the basket to a 66 tooth. No change to your existing pinion gear. When this is all done, give that '92 clutch to someone you dont really like.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Deye76

I have a clutch shell from my 2004, now gotta find a hub.
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

Deye76

East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

farmall

Quote from: Burnout on October 29, 2018, 09:16:47 AM
Even though it has more grip it, also has a lighter pull that a stock clutch, plus it is very easy to modulate.
Thanks for mentioning that. I read they'll hold my V124 but didn't know that bit.



pwmorris

Quote from: Burnout on October 29, 2018, 09:16:47 AM
A Sportsman clutch is like sticking it in half way!   :smiled:

The full Bandit clutch is good for ~140hp and is built to be abused (slipped).
Even though it has more grip it, also has a lighter pull that a stock clutch, plus it is very easy to modulate.

Be warned, a chain final drive almost becomes a necessity because that clutch grabs so hard it will rip the teeth right off the belt.
Nope-
All you do when you slip a non slip, non lock up designed clutch pack like a stock Bandit is smoke the pack. Pull derby and smell the burn...No good.
Been there, done that.
OP with a mild 113" FXR is a perfect candidate for an under primary fitting Barnett with lock up, or Rivera with AIM. 130-140 HP all day...4K hold em'....Quit the band aid stocker, junk the current set up, work OT, and buy the right set up......



Deye76

"OP with a mild 113" FXR is a perfect candidate for an under primary fitting Barnett with lock up, or Rivera with AIM"

Thank You.  :up:
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

pwmorris

Quote from: Deye76 on November 02, 2018, 05:23:13 AM
"OP with a mild 113" FXR is a perfect candidate for an under primary fitting Barnett with lock up, or Rivera with AIM"

Thank You.  :up:
Anytime
:up:

FSG

Quote from: Deye76 on October 31, 2018, 03:59:38 PM
And a pressure plate.

and when you get one ..................












hbkeith

Can you explain all that FSG ?

rigidthumper

Looks like it stiffens the assembly and sandwiches the snap ring for less deflection, better stability; more pushrod movement goes into moving the pressure plate, instead of overcoming snap ring flex and slop.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Ohio HD

 :up:   I agree, nice improvements for transmitting more movement where you want it to go. 

Deye76

Thanks FSG. What's needed to clean up the release plate? Was yours done on a lathe?
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

FSG

QuoteWas yours done on a lathe?

yes, I assemble the plate, adjusting screw and lock down the nut then put the opposite end of the adjusting screw into the lathe

that helps keep the skimmed plate perpendicular to the screw


Deye76

East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP