Has HD fixed the sumping and oil transferr issues

[K4FXD]

I've read through several threads and I cannot figure out if the current new bikes are factory fixed.

Anyone know.

Thanks

[HogMike]

I've read through several threads and I cannot figure out if the current new bikes are factory fixed.

Anyone know.

Thanks

Have heard the trans oil problems have a vent installed from the factory.
Haven't been by my local dealer to have a look yet.
If you call the dealer they will not know what to look for. Best bet is to look see for yourself.
The sumping issue will be fixed when the latest bikes no longer have it happen.
JMHO of course.

[CndUltra88]

Was riding this past weekend with a guy with 5500kms on his three week onl ride and it was transferring fluid right away or so he claimed.
Dealership allegedly has a fix where a vent is drilled into the Primary....
I never checked their handi work and no reason to doubt this fix as it sounds plausible to me.
Rob

[K4FXD]

So, still not fixed.

Guess a new bike will have to wait.

[road-dawgs1]

Just bought my '19 and put 550 miles on it. Checked the tranny fluid tonight prior to taking a ride. No fluid registered on the stick. Rode right over to the dealer and asked a mechanic to check my tranny fluid. Said it was low, put fluid in it and made me an appt for tomorrow morning as they had a bunch of the vent kits in stock. This is not the dealer I bought it from either.

[rbabos]

Just bought my '19 and put 550 miles on it. Checked the tranny fluid tonight prior to taking a ride. No fluid registered on the stick. Rode right over to the dealer and asked a mechanic to check my tranny fluid. Said it was low, put fluid in it and made me an appt for tomorrow morning as they had a bunch of the vent kits in stock. This is not the dealer I bought it from either.

Any HD dealer should be able to do warranty and service on your bike, not just the one it was bought from, just like any autos. Good for the public, especially if the one you bought from is a dick head.
Ron

[road-dawgs1]

Just bought my '19 and put 550 miles on it. Checked the tranny fluid tonight prior to taking a ride. No fluid registered on the stick. Rode right over to the dealer and asked a mechanic to check my tranny fluid. Said it was low, put fluid in it and made me an appt for tomorrow morning as they had a bunch of the vent kits in stock. This is not the dealer I bought it from either.

Any HD dealer should be able to do warranty and service on your bike, not just the one it was bought from, just like any autos. Good for the public, especially if the one you bought from is a dick head.
Ron

Correct, and it's back this evening with vent installed. The selling dealer is almost 2 hrs away, plus during the sale they take you around as usual to all the departments and introduce you. While in service I asked a mechanic if they had fixed the transmission oil migration issues into the primary. The mechanic, in front of the service manager told me that there was never any migration issues and that it was caused by people lugging their engines. After hearing that, I thought to myself that I wouldn't bring my bike back there if I found it to be migrating.

[PoorUB]

While in service I asked a mechanic if they had fixed the transmission oil migration issues into the primary. The mechanic, in front of the service manager told me that there was never any migration issues and that it was caused by people lugging their engines. After hearing that, I thought to myself that I wouldn't bring my bike back there if I found it to be migrating.

I swear the standard mantra from HD dealers is to deny, deny, deny until the  hits the fan. I mentioned to the salesman the problem with cam bearings in the early Twin Cams when I bought my '05, "Never heard of problem!" When I bought my 2010 I remember mentioning the improvement with the hydraulic tensioners over the old spring loaded, same deal, "Problem with tensioners? Never heard of any issue!" When I bought my 2016 I mentioned the crappy compensator and I was glad that HD got that taken care of. "Compensator problems?"

I swear they are trained to ignore any problems of the past and just sell bikes, then sort it out later.

[FSG]

The mechanic, in front of the service manager told me that there was never any migration issues and that it was caused by people lugging their engines.

I bet he'd not come out with that B$ had he known your background, then again I'm often not surprised by the line of B$ passed to me when I accidentally stumble in the Brissie HD Shop

[Scotty]

With only one dealer here in South OZ up until a couple of years ago they gave up on bullshitting me about 18 years ago when I started printing out TSB's and waiting for them to say never heard of it or claiming it's not a warranty problem and then giving them the TSB.
Got to the point the only person who would talk to me was the service writer and the parts counter, it's nice to be loved. 

[IronButt70]

Best BS story I ever heard was from an Indian service writer. I was helping a friend with warranty issues. When l looked under the bike I noticed the right side muffler clamp was half ground off from hitting the pavement in sharp turns.  When I asked him about that he said " we file those down so they won't hit the pavement". I asked why didn't they just loosen the clamp and rotate it up under the muffler a little farther. Unintelligible mumbling as he walked away. As some may know many TS 111 engines had a noise that became known as clacking. When the service manager was asked about the noise we got the "they all do that."  I asked him to let me ride any 5 of their demo bikes to see if that was true. He refused. Wonder why? After 6 months of issues and denied warranty claims my friend unloaded that POS. We are now trying to get our legislature to include motorcycles in the states lemon laws.

[SixShooter14]

According to Facebook  there is no "sumping" problem

Straight from a FB expert

People don't seem to understand the m8 does not sump. It's a tranny/primary problem. Started with the 2014 Rushmore bikes. It just became more talked about with the m8 models.

[rbabos]

Best BS story I ever heard was from an Indian service writer. I was helping a friend with warranty issues. When l looked under the bike I noticed the right side muffler clamp was half ground off from hitting the pavement in sharp turns.  When I asked him about that he said " we file those down so the won't hit the pavement". I asked why didn't they just loosen the clamp and rotate it up under the muffler a little farther. Unintelligible mumbling as he walked away. As some may know many TS 111 engines had a noise that became known as clacking. When the service manager was asked about the noise we got the "they all do that."  I asked him to let me ride any 5 of their demo bikes to see if that was true. He refused. Wonder why? After 6 months of issues and denied warranty claims my friend unloaded that POS. We are now trying to get our legislature to include motorcycles in the states lemon laws.

Sounds good and for the price of these damn things there should be a bit more consumer protection in place.
Ron

[SixShooter14]

Best BS story I ever heard was from an Indian service writer. I was helping a friend with warranty issues. When l looked under the bike I noticed the right side muffler clamp was half ground off from hitting the pavement in sharp turns.  When I asked him about that he said " we file those down so the won't hit the pavement". I asked why didn't they just loosen the clamp and rotate it up under the muffler a little farther. Unintelligible mumbling as he walked away. As some may know many TS 111 engines had a noise that became known as clacking. When the service manager was asked about the noise we got the "they all do that."  I asked him to let me ride any 5 of their demo bikes to see if that was true. He refused. Wonder why? After 6 months of issues and denied warranty claims my friend unloaded that POS. We are now trying to get our legislature to include motorcycles in the states lemon laws.

Sounds good and for the price of these damn things there should be a bit more consumer protection in place.
Ron

I agree, they should be covered the same as a 4-wheeled vehicle.

[mac10-45]

  This is a running blog on my '18 CVO Limited SE 115th Anniversary, #758/1200 that "sumped" and what the dealer has done for me. Please don't beat me up because it's long winded. This information may help somebody.Sumping, 17 & 18 Big Bore Milwaukee 8 Motors (114 & 117 cu. In.)

H-D SERVICE BULLETIN M1450- Milwaukee-Eight Equipped Vehicles – Loss of Power or High Engine Braking

This is an update on a previous post by me (Facebook Group for '18 CVO Limiteds SE, 115th Ann.)on my 2018 CVO Limited SE 115th Anniversary H-D, #758/1200

OK, there are 2 different issues affecting Some M8's.
Problem # 1,  oil from tranny to primary. HD has a fix for bikes with this problem, "O" ring for the shaft where it goes thru between tranny and primary and I have seen dealer vent kits added, and aftermarket fix with a larger rod.

Problem # 2 is "SUMPING", mainly affects Stage 3 & 4 M8's, '17 & '18, doesn't matter whether it's factory or dealer installed kits (Stage 3 & 4).  (My 2017 Ultra Classic with Stage 1 used oil between 0-1k, 1k-5k, 5k-7.5k, 7.5k-10k, 10k-15k, 15k-17.5k, 17.5k-20k services the dealer threw in 2 extra oil changes. It was slowing down on the usage at about 20k). At 24,500 miles I traded for a 2018 CVO Limited SE 115 Anniversary with the 117 cu. in. Stage 4 motor. I kept topping it off (oil) and the dealer did too. (See H-D Service Bulletin M1450). When it "Sumps" it gets HOT, fans run for a period of time at shut down longer than others riding with you. I lost about 1/3 of the power, and the gas mileage was cut in half. This happened at about 6000 miles and the problem fixed itself at 6100 miles (I thought it was bad gas). At 6700 miles my 117 cu. in. Stage 4 motor "Sumped" again. This time it needed 2 pistons, 1 jug, 2 sets of rings, new gaskets etc. My oil pump checked out Good and is the latest version. In Service Bulletion M1450, it tells you or the Technician to get the motor hot, idle 1 minute Upright, Shut off motor, keep Upright, pull the Crankcase Position Sensor and catch and measure the oil that comes out of the Sump.  Up to 6 ounces is OK and not Sumping, over 6 ounces is Sumping (originally Harley said 3 oz. or less was OK, NOT Sumping). Mine had 3 Quarts that came out when the Crankcase Position Sensor was removed. My dealer performed the 10K service 8-31-2018 and 3 ounces came out of the sump and now it has been about 3500 miles since the top end rebuild at 6700 miles. The dipstick was down 5 dots (oil had been changed about 2500 miles before the 10k service, they did a 1K oil change after the top end rebuild). The Technician turned off the EITMS when this happened and we have left it OFF. My bike runs just like new now but I don't add or top off oil. The oil level would fluctuate between 3 and 6 dots low since the top end rebuild. The oil is moving in and out of the Sump.
**The 2019 114 & 117 motors have an gasket and Cover for the oil pump that's different (additional parts according to what I have read) than the previous pumps. I think this is the HD fix for Sumping with Stage 3 & 4's. These are my experiences and my opinions. There is no "Recall" to add these to 2017 & 2019 big bore M8's as far as I know.
There is more to this issue than I'll ever know but I have never seen any oil on or around my air cleaner on my '18 CVO Lim, Stage 4 or my previous bike, '17 Ultra Classic Stage 1. No drips on the concrete floor or oil running out the tail pipe on either bike.
UPDATE:
At 13,599 miles my dealer installed:
25700731 GASKET SET, CAM SERVICE
62400206  OIL PUMP ASSY, COVER  (these 2 parts are on the 2019 114's and 117 inch motors)
(they also installed a Stage 2 Horse Power Camshaft while they were adding these parts, I paid for the cam, they installed the upgraded parts under warranty)
Take your bike to your dealer. Have them find Service Bulletin M1450 and follow it to prove that your bike is or is not "SUMPING". Also turn OFF the EITMS function, this makes it worse when it's "SUMPING".
My bike is at my dealer right now doing the 20K service. It has been doing great since my Technician did the top end rebuild an then added the OIL PUMP ASSY, COVER and GASKET SET, CAM SERVICE.
My dealer found the Service Bulletin about Sumping and have proactively taken care of the issue. From what I read on this FB group and H-D Forums on the internet most dealers pretend there is not a problem, If your bike SUMPS it will do it again unless it is fixed. I have read where some have replaced their oil pumps with those made by S&S or Fueling with good results. I don't know if I concur on running an extra quart or half quart of oil to fix the problem because when SUMPING occurs, too much oil is in the sump causing the crankshaft to run in oil causing HEAT and POWER LOSS and Loss of Fuel mileage. Then, mysteriously some of the oil goes back to where it's supposed to be causing the bike to run normal unless the pistons, jugs, rings, etc are scorched as mine was.
6-3-2019, my CVO #758 is at the dealer to have the 25K service done tomorrow. We returned yesterday from a 3 day trip to northern Arkansas and southern Missouri, all is still good with my motor. It was 6 dots low on the dipstick when I returned home yesterday. It has been 3200+ miles since last oil change.

TODAY- 6-19-19, (about 27K miles) my '18 CVO is in shop to finish repairing issues discovered on 25K service (at about 25,800 miles). Dealer just called to inform me that my bike was indeed having the issue with oil MIGRATION from the transmission to primary. Vent kit being ordered from H-D overnight delivery [attach=0,msg1303368]  [attach=0,msg1303368] .

JC

[HogMike]

As long as you have the barrels off you might want to have your technician check to see if the piston oil jets are loose if he hasn't done so already.

[FSG]

TODAY- 6-19-19, ............ Vent kit being ordered from H-D overnight delivery

you'd think by now dealers would have a dozen or more sitting on their shelf ready to be used 

[road-dawgs1]

TODAY- 6-19-19, ............ Vent kit being ordered from H-D overnight delivery

you'd think by now dealers would have a dozen or more sitting on their shelf ready to be used

When I took mine in, they only had 5 in stock with 4 being already committed to work orders, I got the 5th committed to my work order.