Exhaust question

[Ketch]

I'm going with a 107" kit from my 103" and staying with stock heads. My question is that I run Rinehart Slimlines currently for exhaust and wondered if it would it be a significant gain in torque if I were to go to a D&D 2 into 1 system?

[rigidthumper]

IMO the gain isn't worth the $ spent over what you already have- I think it's better to spend the extra dollars on a good tuner & tune.

[838]

For the cost of that pipe you could do a little headwork and get a good tune... those things will improve performance a lot.

[jrgreene1968]

I don't know anything about the rhineharts.. but I've got a d&d fatcat, and a good while back I decided to get a set of Bassani pro streets, because I don't like the sound of the fatcat.
The pro streets came in, I put them on, and took them right back off. They sounded good, but there was a definately loss of low end compared to the d&d.
The d&d is a nice pipe, makes good power, and it's a b***c to install, atleast on my bike

[Ketch]

I'm getting ready to do a 107" on my 103" twin cam and I had a major shop (FM) tell me that tey wouldn't do the work because of my exhaust be Rinehart Slimlines. Why would that be? I called with an exhaust question and this subject came up. I live no where near that shop so it's not going to happen but whay would he say that? Are Slimlines sufficient with a 107" (no head work)?

[Stingray]

If it helps, you are not the only one. They said the same thing to me too. I do have a different exhaust than you too.
I still haven't made the motor changes as of yet.

[Coff 06]

I think shops that sell kits have certain expectations of the outcome.If they feel a particular exhaust system won't complement the build and the customer will be disappointed,then it's better left to the customer to take responsibility.JMHO.        Coff 06

[harpwrench]

I'd skip the 107 kit, and not remove the heads if your budget is tight. Install some Andrews 48's and have it tuned by a competent shop with the device they prefer (not the FP3 mentioned in your first post). Or just get it tuned, 2016's run pretty good with pipes and a real tune.

[838]

There's a fuel Moto 2-1 pipe for sale in the htt classifieds... bet they'd sell you the kit if you had their pipe.

I like the Andrews 48 idea.

[dsvracer]

IMO exhaust are a personnel thing. if you are going for max performance then sound and looks are not important. but for most of us we want performance but not at the cost of looks or sound.  i tell my customers if you are just riding on the street then pick an exhaust you like the looks and sound of and go with it. if you buy a performance exhaust and you do not like the looks or sound you will be reluctant to ride the bike. i guess it comes down to what is more important to you, sound and looks or a few extra ponies.  dsv

[838]

I'm getting ready to do a 107" on my 103" twin cam and I had a major shop (FM) tell me that tey wouldn't do the work because of my exhaust be Rinehart Slimlines. Why would that be? I called with an exhaust question and this subject came up. I live no where near that shop so it's not going to happen but whay would he say that? Are Slimlines sufficient with a 107" (no head work)?

What was the 107" build you proposed to fuel Moto? Maybe there is more to it then just the exhaust. I searched "slimline duals" in the dyno section and they look to perform very nicely.

DSVs outlook on pipe selection is a great one when makeing an exhaust choice. I choose a rush Wrath because of looks, sound, performance and the fact that it's several hundred dollars cheaper then it's competitve pipes. Might not be the best pipe at 103-107" though (could be fine)... but if you were to bolt on a 110" kit you'd be in business!

[Ketch]

I was looking into ordering a 107 big bore kit. The gentleman I spoke with said if I were local to them they would not do the build since I had slimlines for exhaust. He mentioned Jackpot road and track and it would perform like it should with a correct tune. I really like the sound of my slimlines but I'm just out of motor. It used to feel good but now I realize how slow it is LOL! I gotta do someting just affraid of making a mistake and want to do the right thing.

[rigidthumper]

I gotta do someting just affraid of making a mistake and want to do the right thing.

Be honest with how you ride, and where you spend the majority of your time. For most folks, the decision comes down to one of three 1500 RPM  areas:
Low end (1500-3000) You've never hit the rev limiter, not sure what it does. Good stage 1 & tune makes em happy, maybe. Should be in the 105 TQ 85 HP range on a Rushmore bike.

Mid range (3000-4500) Know what the limiter does, but thinks that's hard on an engine. Perfect candidate for a stage 2 cam & tune, add displacement.  Drop on kit and cams should be ~120TQ 105 HP range.

Top end (4500-6000) Launch at 3500 and use the rev limiter to shift. Pay the experts and enjoy their efforts. Results usually limited by budget.

Most folks spend time cruising on back roads, with a little superslab, find that they are low end, with the occasional mid range blast when playing with friends, type of rider.


I find a combo that works strong from 1500 - 3500 feels better than a build that doesn't come on until 2800.
Tune makes/breaks the build.
YMMV

[FLDavetrain]

I gotta do someting just affraid of making a mistake and want to do the right thing.

Be honest with how you ride, and where you spend the majority of your time. For most folks, the decision comes down to one of three 1500 RPM  areas:
Low end (1500-3000) You've never hit the rev limiter, not sure what it does. Good stage 1 & tune makes em happy, maybe. Should be in the 105 TQ 85 HP range on a Rushmore bike.

Mid range (3000-4500) Know what the limiter does, but thinks that's hard on an engine. Perfect candidate for a stage 2 cam & tune, add displacement.  Drop on kit and cams should be ~120TQ 105 HP range.

Top end (4500-6000) Launch at 3500 and use the rev limiter to shift. Pay the experts and enjoy their efforts. Results usually limited by budget.

Most folks spend time cruising on back roads, with a little superslab, find that they are low end, with the occasional mid range blast when playing with friends, type of rider.


I find a combo that works strong from 1500 - 3500 feels better than a build that doesn't come on until 2800.
Tune makes/breaks the build.
YMMV

What about the rider w multiple personalities ......that could make picking your categories hard.

[Ketch]

I already have the "low end" stage 1 Rushmore bike that you speak of and its decent but just not that much fun anymore. It just does't have the torque that I'd like to feel in the seat of my pants. I'm just wondering if I'd be happy with a set of cams and a good tune or spend/save a bit more and do that along with the 107". I really don't want to get a new exhaust though because I like the sound of my Slimlines and I'm sure they'd be fine.

[IronMike113]

What about the rider w multiple personalities ......that could make picking your categories hard.


That's why you have multiple Bikes,,,,,,,,, lol 😂

As for the pipe Rush Does offer a few different sized baffles,for use IIRC

[rhuff]

Personally, I think people underestimate the importance of a good dyno tune and exhaust when making performance changes. 

The torque you're likely missing is right where a good exhaust will pick up the slack compared to you true dual set up.

Sell you exhaust.  Buy a new or used crossover or 2-1.  THEN decide if you want to go 107.

[Hilly13]

Personally, I think people underestimate the importance of a good dyno tune and exhaust when making performance changes. 

The torque you're likely missing is right where a good exhaust will pick up the slack compared to you true dual set up.

Sell you exhaust.  Buy a new or used crossover or 2-1.  THEN decide if you want to go 107.

Your on the money mate 

[Fat11Lo]

Personally, I think people underestimate the importance of a good dyno tune and exhaust when making performance changes. 

The torque you're likely missing is right where a good exhaust will pick up the slack compared to you true dual set up.

Sell you exhaust.  Buy a new or used crossover or 2-1.  THEN decide if you want to go 107.

I agree, when most look a dyno charts they look at the right and the peak numbers it made

For me I look at the left side and how the torque curve builds

Many an instance where a bike made less in the peak numbers but was much more fun to ride because it made torque quicker

[Tommy D]

I'm getting ready to do a 107" on my 103" twin cam and I had a major shop (FM) tell me that tey wouldn't do the work because of my exhaust be Rinehart Slimlines. Why would that be? I called with an exhaust question and this subject came up. I live no where near that shop so it's not going to happen but whay would he say that? Are Slimlines sufficient with a 107" (no head work)?

That makes no sense, considering FM is a Rinehart retailer
You need to get further clarification before spending more monies

Btw, the Slimline set up is a good performing system

[Ketch]

I installed the FM Jackpot Road and Track last night and put a new map in my FP3. This pipe is great and sounds fantastic! Nice deep rumble while at idle and cruising but when you wack the throttle this pipe will say HELLO loud and clear! Next up is the 107 kit and a real tune but I'll have Hillside Cycle do that in the fall.

[Ketch]

Now that I have the 2-1 installed is there a cam that will work really well in my current 103" that will also work really well when I go up to the 107"?

[motorhead_smf]

Now that I have the 2-1 installed is there a cam that will work really well in my current 103" that will also work really well when I go up to the 107"?

A major factor with a cam is compression.  Some more than others.  A lot of times increasing cubes through bore that is something you will change.  Adding compression can make many performance cams really come on.  I would being looking at a good street cam that responds well to compression.  Although not knowing exactly what your working with makes that a difficult question to answer.  The biggest thing is matching your cam to the rpm in which you ride.

I Like cams that come on in The mid range and pull all the way through.  But I'm not afraid to rev a Harley out, and generally try to build around that.  Many many riders never see 4500+ it doesn't feel right to them for whatever reason.

[Hossamania]

Another member here had a box with a magic cam in it, worked with most combinations to meet most riding styles.
The box was empty. Seems, no magic cam.

[sfmichael]

I already have the "low end" stage 1 Rushmore bike that you speak of and its decent but just not that much fun anymore. It just does't have the torque that I'd like to feel in the seat of my pants. I'm just wondering if I'd be happy with a set of cams and a good tune or spend/save a bit more and do that along with the 107". I really don't want to get a new exhaust though because I like the sound of my Slimlines and I'm sure they'd be fine.

skip the 107 and do the 110'' drop on kit...have the heads freshened with at least a true performance valve job (if porting isn't in the budget) and slide in some CyvleRama 575s

hi flow air cleaner helps at higher rpms if desired

kickass tune and Bob's your uncle 

[stogieluvr60]

I already have the "low end" stage 1 Rushmore bike that you speak of and its decent but just not that much fun anymore. It just does't have the torque that I'd like to feel in the seat of my pants. I'm just wondering if I'd be happy with a set of cams and a good tune or spend/save a bit more and do that along with the 107". I really don't want to get a new exhaust though because I like the sound of my Slimlines and I'm sure they'd be fine.

skip the 107 and do the 110'' drop on kit...have the heads freshened with at least a true performance valve job (if porting isn't in the budget) and slide in some CyvleRama 575s

hi flow air cleaner helps at higher rpms if desired

kickass tune and Bob's your uncle 

I never quite understood the whole 103" to 107"....juice isn't worth the squeeze...but with these drop in 110" kits on the market now...that's another matter.

[Ketch]

The difference is money. Gotta do head work if you move up to 110"

[Hossamania]

The difference is money. Gotta do head work if you move up to 110"

If you're not doing head work, what's the point of going from 103 to 107?

[Ketch]

107" equals torque. Head work equals horsepower. It's kinda like being on a budget and you only have so much money to work with. Would you keep it a 103" and do cams and head work or go cams and 107" with no head work for close to the same money? Answer is 107" if you're like me and want the torque. I'm not in need of the big HP I want the seat of your pants pull from 2,500 to 4,500.

[PoorUB]

If you have the heads off, get them done. Even more so if you are bumping the cubes. It is not that much money compared to the rst of the build.
Porting will also help out in the lower RPM range.

[harpwrench]

The difference is money. Gotta do head work if you move up to 110"

Check out GMR's posts in the dyno section of 110 drop ons with stock heads

[motolocopat]

The difference is money. Gotta do head work if you move up to 110"

Check out GMR's posts in the dyno section of 110 drop ons with stock heads

Yes Steve/GMR has stated several times and others as well that the 110" kits just seem to work well even without doing Headwork. I suspect that they are pulling sufficiently more volume that they create higher velocities that there is just a sweet spot that they are hitting. From what I've seen the 107" kits need cam/headwork to produce the same amount of power that the Bore/Cam 110"
Obviously while you have the heads off they should be checked and as suggested just a good valve job if your mileage is up there on the bike or is affordable.   

[rhuff]

I second everyone else questioning 103 to 107.  Yeah, it equals about 4 ft lbs of torque.  A complete waste of $$. 

Save your nickels and do it right.  Or do a nice cam (Andrews 48 or CR 570) in your 103.