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Gears fell out after pulling cover

Started by neilc, August 10, 2016, 01:20:54 PM

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neilc

Man this bike is a wreck! I just pulled off the right side cover and the gears came out with a bunch of metal filings,need to know how too line hash marks back up,anyone got a pic

Panzer

August 10, 2016, 02:16:16 PM #1 Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 02:18:52 PM by Panzer
Neilc, the guys here (me too) will want to know model, year, etc., etc..
Hang in, help is on the way after you give requested info..

70xclh...saw it in your other post.

Would be an XLCH
Everyone wants to change the world but, no one wants to change the toilet paper.


Burnout

Where did the metal come from?

Buggered or exploded lifter?

Cam shims? (moco TSB says you don't need them)

What year?
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Racepres

Quote from: Burnout on August 11, 2016, 06:00:32 AM
Where did the metal come from?

Buggered or exploded lifter?

Cam shims? (moco TSB says you don't need them)

What year?

I know that the TSB simply Omits the shims...but, What they are "telling" us is that they were being set-up way too tight...[seen plenty] I use shims...especially on #2...

Someone needs at minimum a FSM!
Simple as Pie really...If ya do a bit of Research.


JW113

I quit using the shims long ago. Never had a problem.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

garyajaz

did you first remove points and advance unit?
they bolted to a cam.
I would not be so quick to reinstall and align till metal source is found and corrected.
also get a factory manual.
the others are lacking.

Pete_Vit

 :agree: make sure you flush that system good, my Stator blew (magnets) in my 93 and got metal thought the primary and tranny  :emsad:
93 XLH1200 - 96 FXSTS - 2010 Ultra Glide Classic
www.facebook.com/harleypartsch

neilc

Ya metal was from disintegrated shims behind gears,all cleaned out now,gears back in and timed except first gear has no timing mark on it just a hand painted dot that goes to starter motor,also left inside shims out this time should I leave both outer and inside shims out

neilc


westcomb

Just about any time you pull the cam cover off a ironhead the cams are going with the cover! .......... so this is pretty normal!

Those shims seem to always tare apart ..... using shims is not a bad idea but when there say .010" thick like most ironheads have there just going to fail! ..........

I will not use a thin shim on a cam! .......... your just asking for problems! ........ I often just run without them unless I can get a thick shim that will hold up! so check end play and see how far off you are! and go from there  :up:

You better pull the oil pump off and check that out ......... very likely there is metal in that pump! fixed now maybe saves a rebuild later?


rider7816

Looking at your pics, I think your first cam (closest to the generator) is not timed correctly.  Those yellow marks are meaningless as far as timing is concerned.

Get yourself a manual first!  The timing is crucial. Since you have an earlier ironhead, dont forget to line up the breather on the oil pump drive gear too.



Racepres

Agree with Rider
and I think most folks set up Ironheads wayyy too Tight...Hell it will work just fine without shims at all...better thasn using a Shim under 10 to 15 Thou. which I would Not Do.
Check the "dogbones" for galling...may need replacements. Those are a Necessity.

garyajaz

manual!
what your referring to as a starter motor is the generator.
that idler gear with the paint dosent need timed.
gen does not need to be timed.
your marks on cams are off.

Burnout

August 12, 2016, 11:25:57 AM #14 Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:31:05 AM by Burnout
Not starter motor, generator. No timing needed for generator or idler gear.
Front cam gear not timed correct.
Ignore paint spots.
I only use the thickest shims and do not shim tight.
Clean out the bottom of the oil tank.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

neilc

Note 1st gear only has a paint mark to line up,hope it's correct,manual shows a tick mark,but all I can see is a paint mark and a grooved line

JW113

2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

olpigiron

Also..... I believe the engine should be at TDC. If not, someone will say
Cheers....
The Sun Don't Shine On The Same Dogs Ass Everyday....
OPI

neilc

What's the easiest way of finding tic on these bikes,other bikes I had had tech marks were points were or when cylinders were up

neilc


olpigiron

I lift the bike on the jack....pull the plugs, put the bike in gear, pull the timing plug on the left side. I use a wire
put in the front spark plug hole, rotate the rear wheel slowly until the wire is as far up as it goes, look in the timing hole
look for the marks If you don't see any do it again until you see them.  sorry I can't remember, one mark 2 marks.
As said before a manual (not a clymer) but a real HD manual is a must
Cheers....
The Sun Don't Shine On The Same Dogs Ass Everyday....
OPI

eglideic

Quote from: neilc on August 13, 2016, 03:34:00 PM
What's the easiest way of finding tic on these bikes,other bikes I had had tech marks were points were or when cylinders were up

Forget TDC. You're good to go except for that first cam. The mark is right there as JW113 said. Put it where it belongs.

neilc

Still can't find line up mark on that first gear,just the groove and that won't work because the cam lobe stops it from fitting, other than that I don't see a line like the other gears

neilc

Will try rotating motor to see if I can line up that gear at a different position

neilc

Just rotated motor,lifter won't allow the gear to go in still at that position due to its at its high spot on the gear lobe