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1984 FXSB Rebuild (Partial) Log and Intro to me

Started by carioux2008, January 15, 2019, 10:42:40 AM

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carioux2008

Good Tuesday!
Picked up a 1984 Harley FXSB Low Rider from my Father's late friend. He was described to me as a real biker and not one to take any "Potty mouth"! Ive been trying to keep that spirit alive with this bike, and here is it's story.


as recieved

1984 Harley Davidson FXSB Low Rider
Sputhe 5-into-4 case (uses early 5-Speed FXR internals)
Forward Controls
Raised handlebars (height unknown)

This is a chain primary, belt final drive bike. Unlike the Sturgis models which had a belt driven primary and a different type of compensator which used rubber pucks rather than ramps. This rebuild is consisting of replacing the leaking oil seals in the transmission as well as sealing the primary and extending handlebar wiring, and repairs along the way as needed.

First thing we did was change out the handlebars to a more comfortable "ape-hanger-ish" style and brought her down to VA Beach where I work.

As she sits now

What a difference! the seat was comfortable, it was easier to shift, and it handled better because of better levearge. IMHO drag bars=drag racing, not street riding.

So, a few weeks and a few hundred miles passed...she leaks. Now some of you may say its only an issue when it stops leaking, then you know its out of oil. I cant live by that motto. I hate leaky pieces of equipment. The leak was coming from both ends of the trans as well as the clutch cable...so here comes the rebuild! I went to the good 'ol Harbor Fright (Freight) and bought their steel framed 1500lb motorcycle/atv lift.

Here is my Video Log (Vlog):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8y-g51kaYE&list=PLBBtpekUiW2btwFLvYzqscATV8YiPYOCr

Hope to hear some good input from you guys! Im loving this page so far. Its a work in progress!

Hossamania

Congratulations and welcome to the site! I love those old Shovel FXR's. Good looking piece you have there, the guys here will be able to help you keep it on the road for many years to come.
Good luck!
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Burnout

If you can see the battery it's not an FXR. The R is rubber mount.

That is a regular solid mount 4 speed frame.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

david lee

had my 1980 lowrider since 84 . genuine 17000 klms.cant see myself selling it even though its hardly ridden

Hossamania

Quote from: Burnout on January 15, 2019, 11:21:39 AM
If you can see the battery it's not an FXR. The R is rubber mount.

That is a regular solid mount 4 speed frame.

You're right, I misread the intro and did not look closely at the picture.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

billbuilds

     Welcome to the forum, It's much easier to pull the rear axle with the jack down and just a little weight on the wheel. Then just raise the jack and remove the wheel. That was a dead-blow hammer that you hit those axle threads with wasn't it? Not a good idea to whack steel threads with a steel hammer as you can bugger them up. How long did you ride it knowing that the rear rotor was cracked like it shows in your video? That could have been a real bummer had it locked up. Bill

carioux2008

Bill,
Thanks for the input. Just to ease your mind, it was a plastic/rubber type mallet and not a steel dead-blow hammer. I think I'll try installing it closer to the ground, I can see how being closer would help. The day I found the rotor cracked was the day I parked it and bought the lift. Unfortunately, I had to drive home from work (about 10 miles, 20 minutes) still, but I have a front brake for a reason. I'm having a really difficult time getting those pesky bolts out of the rotor though, that's why I don't have a video of it yet. I've used heat, broken 2 hex-key sockets, tried using impact hex-keys with my 1/2 in Milwaukee impact driver. Not even budging. I'm about to drill them.  :sick:

Really glad you watched the video! I'm improving as I go, there's 3 so far.

Corey

Burnout

get more serious with the heat to break the locktite loose.

hit the stripped ones with a hammer to close up the stripped allen, this will also help break the locktite.

Don't use an impact gun, Use a hand/hammer impact if you have one
If using a ratchet use an extension so you can hold an allen socket straight with the bolt and prevent stripping the allens
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Hogman

Quote from: Burnout on January 15, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
get more serious with the heat to break the locktite loose.

hit the stripped ones with a hammer to close up the stripped allen, this will also help break the locktite.

Don't use an impact gun, Use a hand/hammer impact if you have one
If using a ratchet use an extension so you can hold an allen socket straight with the bolt and prevent stripping the allens

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The ONLY Way to do This Job! Never Had one Failure doing it this Way.......
Hogman

carioux2008

Quote from: Hogman on January 16, 2019, 04:24:47 AM
Quote from: Burnout on January 15, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
get more serious with the heat to break the locktite loose.

hit the stripped ones with a hammer to close up the stripped allen, this will also help break the locktite.

Don't use an impact gun, Use a hand/hammer impact if you have one
If using a ratchet use an extension so you can hold an allen socket straight with the bolt and prevent stripping the allens

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The ONLY Way to do This Job! Never Had one Failure doing it this Way.......

I will try this! Thank you!!

On another note, I've been wondering why the inner primary bearing that I removed wouldn't match up to ANY bearing Harley put in these...come to find out, upon closer inspection, the previous "wrench" was "SOOOO TALENTED" that he left the original outer race installed and pressed in a smaller OD bearing in its place. So I'm here SMDH because this isnt the first WTF moment ive found on this bike. Overtightened nuts to the point it ruined threads on the trans-mount, wire tied scavenge line on the primary, and some other things that just make you cringe. It'll be right when im done though...and ideally leak free.

Ohio HD

Quote from: carioux2008 on January 16, 2019, 07:01:01 AM


...and ideally leak free.

A word of advice then, quit prying against the aluminum to get the primary cover or any other gasketed surface off. Take the derby cover off, gives a place to grip. Then use a soft face rubber mallet to tap round the primary cover to break it loose while pulling on it. If you must pry, buy some nylon / plastic pry levers used by body shops to work on interior panels of cars.

JW113

Congratulations and welcome! I think you'll find that owning an old bike, especially a Shovelhead, is a bit like archeology. As you dig into, discovering all of it's "history", and all the amazingly stupid "Potty mouth" that's been done, you'll wonder how it survived at all! Your job now: make it right!

Caliper bolts: As Burnout said, heat. As in oxy-acetyle, smallest tip, and get the bolt purt near red hot. Bolt will spin right out.

Oil Leaks: Welcome to the club, amigo! Pouring out is bad, but learn to ignore the dibble spots that will surely be found under it, even on a "perfect" specimen. The fact is, 'back in the day', oil leaks were something most riders didn't give much mind to, unlike today. In fact with Shovels, due to the chain oiler, by design you are guaranted that it will mark it's spot. I can be a fun process to minimize this as much as possible, though. For the primary housings, you might have the gasket surfaces planed smooth. Shovelhead only has 8 or 9 bolts on the outer primary, vs. 12 on an Evo. So the smoother and flatter, the better.

Trans oil leak: notorious out the mainshaft. Do a search on here, there's a lot of info how to fix that.

Keep us posted!

cheers,
JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

carioux2008

January 16, 2019, 09:47:46 AM #12 Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 09:53:34 AM by carioux2008
Quote from: Ohio HD on January 16, 2019, 07:38:46 AM
A word of advice then, quit prying against the aluminum to get the primary cover or any other gasketed surface off. Take the derby cover off, gives a place to grip. Then use a soft face rubber mallet to tap round the primary cover to break it loose while pulling on it. If you must pry, buy some nylon / plastic pry levers used by body shops to work on interior panels of cars. I didnt remove the derby cover because I didnt know if I was going to be able to remove the screw without stripping them...I got it though.
Thanks Ohio HD, I'll keep that in mind. I wasnt really prying too hard on the gasket surface, there is a section of the primary cover that is not a sealing surface near the solenoid, I did pry a little harder there but still not enough to flex the case too much. Ill try what you've said and invest in some of those palstic tools to prevent an issue from happenning in the future.

Ok, heres a neat status update....And stuff that wont likely be detailed in the next video.

Heres the inner race left installed in the inner primary. Took me 15 minutes to get it out! Why would somebody take the time to spec the wrong bearing? I'll be off to the bearing supply shop locally to pick up the CORRECT bearing.


Got it out by grinding down the race, then using a chisel to fracture it and walk it down.


This is what the inside of the tranny looked like when I pulled the cover. Guessing when that it was run low on fluid for too long (we found it low) and ruined the main bearing and all that black goo is bearing dust that got distributed throughout the transmission. I ran some ATF in there for the last 100 miles to help flush it, but now it should be good.


Heres the gearset...All Andrews gears!


Main bearing made some noise once I got the gearset out...so it got replaced. Pounded out 5th gear with a wood block. Removed snap ring. Pounded out the bearing as seen in the pic below...


Heated the case (after the wife left) in the oven at 250F while freezing the main bearing and 5th gear, main bearing dropped right in with a surprising thud as it touched the bottom. Waited a minute for the temp to normalize and put the snapring in and popped it back in the oven. 20 minutes later 5th gear dropped in just the same way. No press needed! Plan to do the inner primary bearing the same way.





Here is the brake rotor. This was the second hex key socket I broke. I have since gotten an impact set that hasnt broken...yet. You can see some of the cracks in the second pic.



But, I'm not in a huge rush to replace it anyway becuase the new rotor I ordered from J&P Cycles came with the machining flash still attached. There was also some AWFUL machining done in the chamfers to the bolts. It went back for an exchange.


So, one day I was riding home from work and she started sputtering, I knew she was low on fuel and i figured "Hey, what a great time to make sure the reserve works!" Well, when I flipped it over to "R" she sputtered out and died. Fuel still in the tank. So I shook it up, waited a few, started her and prayed I would make it to the next gas station .25 miles down the road...wound up coasting to the pump thankfully. Well, this is why...


If you look at one of the first pictures I posted with the taller handlebars, youll see the wires are prety stretched and sloppy looking...fixed that.




Im replacing all the fluid lines on the bike; that is oil, fuel and "vapor." Im also sealing the primary, so removing 3 lines that are not needed any longer. Im going to be using the "fuel injection" hose clamps as I think they look better and seal better. Ill be plugging the primary chain oiler with a 5/16-18 screw.



Hope you all enjoyed observing. More to come SOON!

Hossamania

No pictures posted. I was all psyched up to see them! Teasing me...
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

rigidthumper

One thing I remember from yesteryear was removing the oil feed line to the fitting, then rotating the oil feed fitting on the inner primary so it pointed down, and that became the vent for the now sealed primary.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Lowrider!

I had to drill through my rotor screws then using a propane torch to heat in the hole to release the red loctite they used. This was after I had snapped several heads off and generally stressed the remaining screws.

carioux2008

Quote from: Hossamania on January 16, 2019, 12:35:35 PM
No pictures posted. I was all psyched up to see them! Teasing me...
I'm not sure what's happening, they are hosted on imgbb.com. I posted them while at...*cough*... work ...*cough*... and they show up here at home.

Quote from: rigidthumper on January 16, 2019, 12:46:21 PM
One thing I remember from yesteryear was removing the oil feed line to the fitting, then rotating the oil feed fitting on the inner primary so it pointed down, and that became the vent for the now sealed primary.
The feed fitting on the primary was already pointed down for me, but it has been "molested" before I got her.  But, that will be my vent; I plugged the scavenge port and original vent to the crankcase.

Quote from: Lowrider! on January 16, 2019, 05:09:54 PM
I had to drill through my rotor screws then using a propane torch to heat in the hole to release the red loctite they used. This was after I had snapped several heads off and generally stressed the remaining screws.
I'm almost to the point of drilling...but that is a LAST resort for obvious reasons. I had the propane torch on the head for a good 5 minutes and tried with my hand-held impact and hammer as well as electric tools.  No luck yet.

JW113

Oxy-Acetylene. Propane will not get it hot enough. You can give MAPP gas a try, but nothing beats the blue tipped wrench.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

carioux2008

Quote from: JW113 on January 16, 2019, 07:14:24 PM
Oxy-Acetylene. Propane will not get it hot enough. You can give MAPP gas a try, but nothing beats the blue tipped wrench.

-JW
JW,
Propane is not working...your correct. Im about to get a MAP gas tank for my torch and hope it helps. I need to find a person with a real torch, as i dont have one.


Got the race out...and went to the bearing supply shop and picked up a R16-2RS deep groove ball bearing...perfect fit, go figure.


Installed it and popped in the seal. Wound up having to peen the inside of the housing to tighten up the fit as it was loose. That combined with some red loctite should hold it in place just fine.



Hopefully my fuel/oil lines get in today so I can mock things up and get my new lines cut. Got the oil supply to the primary blocked off using a 5/16-18 short bolt and some pipe dope. Ill use this for now until I find a decent looking cap screw.


All roads lead to Daytona for this old girl!!

Hossamania

Quote from: Hossamania on January 16, 2019, 12:35:35 PM
No pictures posted. I was all psyched up to see them! Teasing me...

They have now loaded.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

JW113

Just passing on some hard learned advice...

In general, if there is any way possible to avoid pounding on things like bearings and races to remove/install them, do it. Especially with aluminum, as it easily deforms. And with aluminum, always good to warm it up to 200-ish degrees before doing either remove or install. Rather than a hammer, a better "tool" is a piece of 1/2" to 3/4" all thread rod, a bunch of heavy flat washers, and various diameters of pipe or even large sockets. This is a "poor man's press". This way you can force the bearings in and out without the shock of pounding with a hammer. As you found out, you're new bearing is now loose in the bore. Live and learn.   :doh:

FWIW!

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

carioux2008

Quote from: JW113 on January 17, 2019, 10:38:43 AM
Just passing on some hard learned advice...

In general, if there is any way possible to avoid pounding on things like bearings and races to remove/install them, do it. Especially with aluminum, as it easily deforms. And with aluminum, always good to warm it up to 200-ish degrees before doing either remove or install. Rather than a hammer, a better "tool" is a piece of 1/2" to 3/4" all thread rod, a bunch of heavy flat washers, and various diameters of pipe or even large sockets. This is a "poor man's press". This way you can force the bearings in and out without the shock of pounding with a hammer. As you found out, you're new bearing is now loose in the bore. Live and learn.   :doh:

FWIW!

-JW

JW,
As always, I apreciate the advice. Unfortunately a press wasnt an option for the inner primary because a previous wrench (unknown to me) left the old race in place and found a different bearing to fit in its place. When the bearing was removed, the old race was left in the case with no lip for anything to catch on. I had to grind the inside of the "sleeve race" and then chip part of it away so it would come out. When I reinstalled the new bearing the first time, i thought it went in fine after heating the case and freezing the bearing. After a few minutes I moved the primary around and noticed the bearing had slipped and was able to move it by hand at room temp. Im sure theres a lot of things im doing that arent ideal, but im always looking to improve, and any advice is very valuable to me.

That being said, I like your idea of the "poor-man's press." I will definetly keep that in my "toolbelt" for the next time I have a press fit bearing or bushing to replace.

JW113

OK, dig it. On that note, here's another little tip for a case like that.

If you have, or have access, to a MIG welder, weld a bead around the face of the bearing surface of the race. The race will then (most likely) fall right out. The weld bead shrinks the race enough to make is a slip or slightly loose fit into the bore.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ohio HD


JW113

2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ohio HD


JW113

2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Hossamania

That's kind of convenient, no need to heat one and cool the other to get it assembled.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

carioux2008

Quote from: Ohio HD on January 17, 2019, 01:13:12 PM
Bearing made in India.       :dgust:
Yes, bearing made in India. Better than China...The bearings on JP Cycles were all made in some asian factory...and I have an SKF sitting on my wokrbench that was also made in China. I got this from comparing the manufacturer part number (R16-2RS) and cross referencing it. Got it and the main transmission bearing from a local bearing/seal supplier; im not complaining.

Quote from: Hossamania on January 18, 2019, 07:02:36 AM
That's kind of convenient, no need to heat one and cool the other to get it assembled.
Convenient, maybe...until you put a load on it and it ruins the inner primary case. haha. That shaft is always spinning unless your in gear with the clutch pulled in, so I'd rather it be as snug as possible.


On another note, the break rotor thing made me throw the proverbial wrench last night, so I brought it to the local bike shop. Afraid to see what that bill is going to be. Oceana Cycles in VA Beach has really been treating me right, im not one to promote a business, but if your local to hampton roads, his shop is worth a visit. I sure can tell ya where not to go now...but ya'll can message me if thats what you want to hear, I dont want to put anybodies business on the line.

carioux2008

February 20, 2019, 11:39:40 AM #29 Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 11:46:32 AM by carioux2008
Time for an update!

Its fully assembled now!

I ran into an issue getting the primary on, the new nut i got from my indy was thicker than the original and rubbed against the inner primary.

You can see how it started to chew it up a bit

It was resolved by taking a flap wheel and simply grinding down the boss to increase the clearance.

Went on smooth after that.


I had the best helper in the world beside me some of the time! Couldnt have done it without her.


While I was waiting for the parts to come in for the transmission, I did some rewiring...

This was only the beginning. I resoldered the new wires directly to the switches. The headlight one can still be a little finicky, but not worth taking apart again at the moment.
This led to finding loose connectors in the headlight bucket. For some reason, 30 year-old connectors dont have the same elasticity as new ones. haha. My main issue was the turn signals after rewiring the handlebar controls. The female connectors were a little...loose. 20 dollars later from digi-key came 4 new connectors (i ordered spares) and 200 pins to repin it. The 12-pin connectors new and old were compatible with each other, the 6-pin ones were not. Didnt matter because I replaced both ends anyway.




Everything worked great after! Replaced every bulb except the headlihgt as well at this time.

Got the rear wheel back from the shop, they had to machine out the brake bolts because they were so corroded/loctited. I broke 3 normal allen sockets and an impact socket attempting to remove them.


I then went and got both wheels balanced at a local shop and found bad seals on both wheels....So I cleaned and repacked the wheel bearings (front was NASTY) and replaced the seals.


Since the front wheel was off, i decided to replace the shock oil...

Replaced that with some Belray 10wt

While I was working the front end, I found a little reminder of my helper! She does a good job helping daddy!


Not, i did something NOT necessary...and probably a waste of time. haha. Ill let you guess as the pics come up.






This crap sucks.

heat gun and putty knife removed it much easier than paint stripper, wire wheel or flap disk.


And back in the right direction...With the help of Colorite spray cans in HD Vivid Black.



Put one of these in there...wasnt one before

Installed one of these...had to grind out some of the bondo to make it ft right. Really irritated me, and made me wish I had just gotten a 1/4-20 bolt welded on when it was stripped. Dont waste your time if your painting with these inserts.



Im waiting on the paint to harden to wetsand/buff as its an aerosol finish and probably thinner than a traditional paint job. I want to take off as little as possible.
I made a mistake installing the fender...


Found an easy way to tension and align the rear axle without special tools!

Simply tension the belt with the belt side tensioner and align until the belt tracks in the center with the opposite side tensioner. It took a forum post on an Indian motorcycle forum to learn that.

But I got her on the road again!!!


Went for a ride and it was misfiring upon acceleration, checked the plugs when i got home and they looked ok, heat range was a little hot so i swapped them out for some a heat range cooler. Symptoms persisted.

So, I put some new plug wires on it, it seemed the old ones were a little loose in the coil. The SE plug wires from HD are 10mm (irrelevant) and cost the same as the accel plug wires. So i went with those.




Thanks for all the advice on here! Still waiting to do a few minor things before Daytona, but shes essentially done now!!


Hossamania

You've been very busy! Looks great, gotta be fun to be back on the road. Have fun in Daytona.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

david lee

nice.my 80 lowrider is very similar.but i have a fatbob rear guard.still have the original.and low wide bars also stock controls. still got the forwards.im still in the old days.black and chrome,polished alloy

billbuilds

     Looks nice. Did you mask the breaker clips (holders) on the rear fender before you painted it? Those breakers do need to be grounded for the system to function properly. Overspray is not helpful there.  Bill

carioux2008

Quote from: billbuilds on February 20, 2019, 01:07:27 PM
     Looks nice. Did you mask the breaker clips (holders) on the rear fender before you painted it? Those breakers do need to be grounded for the system to function properly. Overspray is not helpful there.  Bill

Bill, I did not mask them off. There were painted with multiple layers of paint before i even touched it actually. I'll pull the meter out and check the ground on it when i pull the seat off again for buffing. Thanks for the heads up with that.

Ohio HD

Why does the circuit breakers need to see ground? They release from amperage draw between the two terminals.

billbuilds

Quote from: Ohio HD on February 20, 2019, 03:45:00 PM
Why does the circuit breakers need to see ground? They release from amperage draw between the two terminals.


     You're right. Not sure  :wtf:  I was thinking.    :embarrassed:

Manostihl

On the sputhe 5 into 4 I had in my fx there is a spacer that you press into the inner primary for the main shaft. Had a hell of a time trying to find a bearing that was the correct i.d. and o.d. to fit in my 4 speed inner primary. Thatay be the reason that bearing race was left in your inner primary

carioux2008

Quote from: Manostihl on February 24, 2019, 09:32:01 AM
On the sputhe 5 into 4 I had in my fx there is a spacer that you press into the inner primary for the main shaft. Had a hell of a time trying to find a bearing that was the correct i.d. and o.d. to fit in my 4 speed inner primary. Thatay be the reason that bearing race was left in your inner primary

I used the standard deep groove ball bearing listed in the manual and it worked perfectly. The clearance issue was with the main drive gear nut and the case. The bearing used was an oddball size for a Harley, actually, it wouldnt cross to any harley part. Once i ground the case down everything was smooth.

Quote from: billbuilds on February 20, 2019, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on February 20, 2019, 03:45:00 PM
Why does the circuit breakers need to see ground? They release from amperage draw between the two terminals.


     You're right. Not sure  :wtf:  I was thinking.    :embarrassed:

Happens to the best of us. I actually dont know how those breakers work, do they work more like a fuse than a breaker?

Quote from: Hossamania on February 20, 2019, 11:51:46 AM
You've been very busy! Looks great, gotta be fun to be back on the road. Have fun in Daytona.

Thanks, the bike is almost 100%. Just need to buff out the front fender and put a new coil on her. (i may have left the key on by mistake while chasing pixies)

billbuilds

     The breakers are designed to trip and stop continuity between the terminals in the event of a short and they're also designed to be self-resetting when the power is shut off. I guess I wouldn't call them a fuse.