117" Renew

[Ohio HD]

I'm getting ready to go over the 117" I pulled out of my '08 touring bike, and make a nice torquer motor for my '09 touring bike. This is the 117" I bought from Ray.

Plans are a new set of heads, I have a brand new set of 110+ heads going out to make them, well, new. And will use Red Shift 657 cams. After I get it apart, I'll inspect the DH lower end, see how it's doing, it has about 40k+ miles on it. Once the heads are done I can order the domed CP pistons, bore the cylinders, and if the lower end is tight, and I expect it is, put her in the '09 bike, then out for a tune.

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[Hossamania]

Can I ride it when you're done?

[Ohio HD]

No

[Hossamania]

Damn.

[Hossamania]

It looks to be one hell of a good runner. Have fun with it. I'll have to enjoy it vicariously through you!

[No Cents]

  I was hoping Brian would just drop that 117" back off next to the barn when he was done with it.   

[Ohio HD]

I will, when I'm done with it.         

[Hossamania]

 An I ride it then?

[Ohio HD]

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[kd]

Get out the disco shoes Hoss. 

[Ohio HD]

First of all, anyone that has a pair of those, well they can't ride anyway. So, NO!

[Hossamania]

Tough crowd. That chart definitely keeps me off the ride.
And I haven't had disco shoes since The Bee Gees stopped being on the charts. But I looked good in them with my polyester bell bottoms.

[HD/Wrench]

Pic or it never happened 

[No Cents]

   
come on Hoss...give us the goods. Post a pic.

[Hossamania]

The good old days of film, 110 Instamatic camera. I would have to dig deep through some old boxes to find some pics, then destroy them. No way they go on the web. I have a reputation to uphold.

[shovelbill]

The good old days of film, 110 Instamatic camera. I would have to dig deep through some old boxes to find some pics, then destroy them. No way they go on the web. I have a reputation to uphold.

with the cube flash bulbs?

[Hossamania]

The good old days of film, 110 Instamatic camera. I would have to dig deep through some old boxes to find some pics, then destroy them. No way they go on the web. I have a reputation to uphold.

with the cube flash bulbs?

That's the one! I had the 2" extension to raise the flashbulb to prevent red eye in the photo.
Still have my parents Olympus 35 mm camera from the 50's, nice camera, you guess on the distance to focus it. The big round foil flashbulb unit for that one. My father preferred slides over photographs, still have a bunch of them in the old box cartridges for the projector.

[harley_cruiser]

What CI when done? Are you going for HP or torque?

[Hossamania]

What CI when done? Are you going for HP or torque?

Thank you for getting this back on point.

[Ohio HD]

What CI when done? Are you going for HP or torque?

It'll still be a 117, but I guess technically a 117.5" as it'll be 0.010" over. This will probably be pretty well balanced, but the emphases will be on torque. As it is it's 136 HP and 127 TQ when Ray built it. I expect to be reversed a little, a little more TQ than HP, and the TQ come in sooner than it does now. It'll be interesting to see what these cams do. They're characteristics should be similar to T-Man 662-1, that are no longer available.

Heads went by brown truck today to Larry's, he's making cylinder heads great again!     

[TorQuePimp]

Curious minds

Got something special planned for the new heads ?

Wondering why not reusing the originals.....that no question worked really well

[Ohio HD]

They would need going over, as they have 40k+ miles. I'll just set them aside for another project, and have the 110+ heads "fixed". Larry did the old 110 heads as well, for Ray.

[Ohio HD]

Dusting off this older post of mine. Larry finished with my heads, and a stellar job he did. So next step is order pistons to set the compression for the Red Shift 657 cams. My thoughts were to set the static compression to 11.2:1, and that "should" give about a 205 to 210 ccp +/-.
Has any one that has used a Red Shift 657 share what compression you set it at, and how it was at that compression? I plan to speak to Zippers one day next week, but like to ask here for some additional real world experience with those cams. 


Here's the heads, snagged the pics from Larry. They rock and roll.   

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[rageglide]

lolz I saw those pics earlier.  Nice to know where they're going.   That 117" always sounded like a real good runner.

You should send the "wore out" heads to Larry... just for fun and as a bench mark.  Or not.    My 120" rolled 144/133 and i have absolutely no idea what the flow numbers are  :-/  But it gets it done and are probably comparable to your wore out heads. 

Going to watch what happens here with interest.   

[Barrett]

That should rock-n-roll.. I don't have any numbers on my Star heads either.
I'm sure they'll work fine but I kinda want to know.
My shortblock will be ready to pickup next week.
What TB and injectors are you going with?

[sfmichael]

Sounds like a great build - looking forward to the results   

[Ohio HD]

I'm not too interested in what the top end power comes in at, this 117 is going to go in my 2009 Ultra. More interested in mid range pull. From what Larry said the lower and mid lift flow was really good. So I feel like it'll do what I hope for. The TB is a new SE 58mm, and the injectors are SE 5.3gm/s.

[No Cents]

 that Larry guy does great work!   

[skunk]

First of all, anyone that has a pair of those, well they can't ride anyway. So, NO!
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Not entirely true, Just have to leave the heal shifter on cause with them on you cant get the toe under the front peg. Now shifting with a pair of mens size 10 1/2 Stiletto's is another whole story, pointed heal is a bitch to hit the rear peg 

[Ohio HD]

that Larry guy does great work!   

Yes he does Ray, yes he does.   

[Don D]

From what Larry said the lower and mid lift flow was really good

No discredit to Larry, he does nice work, but in my opinion there is a fallacy that low to mid lift flow numbers higher = more low end to mid-range torque.

The 110+ head is a nice piece to start with, better than the CVO 110 head again in my opinion

[Barrett]

What's the difference between the CVO110 vs 110+ ?

[Ohio HD]

lolz I saw those pics earlier.  Nice to know where they're going.   That 117" always sounded like a real good runner.

You should send the "wore out" heads to Larry... just for fun and as a bench mark.  Or not.    My 120" rolled 144/133 and i have absolutely no idea what the flow numbers are  :-/  But it gets it done and are probably comparable to your wore out heads. 

Going to watch what happens here with interest.   

Sorry, missed this. Those heads on the motor now will  make their way back to Larry at some point, just not yet. I have a 110 to build for another project after this one is done. The 117 has Fueling 594 cams in it now. They make decent power, just not a lot down under 3,000. The Red Shift cams should give a broader power band, I hope.

[Armin]

Hi OHD, your combo looks like a promising setup. With the expected CCP of 205 to 210 how to yo manage the ignition timing paired with the AFR to safely stay away from pinging? My build is a 95 enginge with CP 9.7 domed pistons and with heads ported and revalved I arrive at a CCP of 207using Tman 625 cams, combustion chambers being around 82.5 and this setup is very very close to pinging when ambient temp is getting up to summer numbers. When I switched to using wood TW9BG cams the pinging was totally gone due to the later closing time, but they have steeper lobes and are very noisy compared to the TR625. I'd like to re-use the TR625, any suggestions to reduce the pinging risk?

Armin.

[Ohio HD]

Well, you have to consider that a stock 110 rings the bell higher than 200ccp, so compression alone isn't the issue. Get the piston to head squish to 0.033" to 0.037" for a street motor, or tighter if you want. My friend Robin gave me that advice for the 0.033" to 0.037" squish, and I trust what he has to say. As far as the rest, a competent tuner that knows what you want, and how you ride. My 124 is 191 ish ccp, but when warm the motor measures, 200 ish ccp hcp. It doesn't ping unless you over load the motor in the gear your in. This weekend, 93° F and 100° F heat index. No problems riding the 124.

[Ohio HD]

Mr. Larry is shipping the heads, so I need to pull the top end this weekend and verify the cylinder height, the S&S cylinders should be 4.878", but I want to be sure. Will order custom domed CP pistons to make the compression needed. I called my friend Bill, and favorite cylinder specialist today. He retired in January of this year. I asked him if he'll bore my S&S cylinders, he said he will, so that makes me happy. My 124 is sealed so well all I ever see from the crank vents is clear moisture when the humidity is high. Never even a drop of oil in the discharge. He's perfected cylinder prep after 40 years of boring anything you can think of. I'm not rushed to do this, just need to get the next steps going. 



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[rageglide]

I would sure think after 40 yrs he's got it nailed.  Is that your own calculator?   

[Ohio HD]

Yeah, he knows one or two things about bike motors. Bill owned Bore-Tech, and also has worked on so many different bikes, many no has ever seen. That back ground has made him extremely knowledgeable. He works on what he wants now that he's retired. He has a 1913 Excelsior he currently is rebuilding for a guy.

The top calculator is 100% mine, the lower one was made by someone else, I added a few bells and whistles to it.

[rigidthumper]

 IIRC, the MOCO six speed  4&3/8" stroke cranks had 7.659 rods, five speed cranks had 7.667 rods.
Did this have an S&S crank in it?

[Ohio HD]

It has DH H-beam rods. The dimension of 7.670" is what John gave me for the H-beams. I plan to check the crank for runout, bearing play, etc.


I plan to measure everything, except the rode rod length on disassembly, to verify what is what. I'll check piston deck height at TDC, and then measure the cylinders and the piston compression height. It has CP bullet series pistons in it, so everything should go back as it is now as far as deck height.

[rigidthumper]

I should have known Ray would have used only the good stuff 

[Ohio HD]

Exactly!   

[Cracked Head]

Have used this cam often.10.5-10.8 will work fine.Don't trust calculators on this one. the c.c.p.will be 200-205 depending on starter motor and battery.Big midrange torque,good horsepower.I made 110 heads that flowed about the same,expect  low to mid 140's torque,mid to upper 130's horsepower.Mine was with a G carb.FI may be better yet.

[Ohio HD]

It's a home grown calculator that I've sort of adjusted to work at my elevation. I based the values I calculate against from known measurements I made and the actual ccp results. So it's very close. You also have to think in terms of corrected compression and valve closing. The SE 255's close at 25, and the 110 motor makes more than 200ccp, some as high as 220ccp.

[Barrett]

On Big Boyz site mine comes in @ 198.7. I was shooting for 10.8 but ended up about 10.5 after my heads were done.
In the long run I'm probably better off at 10.5. It gets hot in Fl. and I do have a bottle..

[rageglide]

Good stuff.  The compression calculator looks similar to the Big Boyz calculator (which also has altitude, but I'm sure you know that).   Is the one you're using standalone and how does it compare with BBoyz?   I've found the BBoyz calc to be pretty close to reality @ sea level.  (my 120" cold cranks 210 and BB calc says 210.x @ sea level)

Bob

[Ohio HD]

It's stand alone. It compares very close to BB.


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[rageglide]

 

[Ohio HD]

Have used this cam often.10.5-10.8 will work fine.Don't trust calculators on this one. the c.c.p.will be 200-205 depending on starter motor and battery.Big midrange torque,good horsepower.I made 110 heads that flowed about the same,expect  low to mid 140's torque,mid to upper 130's horsepower.Mine was with a G carb.FI may be better yet.

So the fine fellers at Zippers reviewed my info, and they also did recommended a touch less compression. So we'll target 10.75:1 static compression. A +6cc dome should get me to 10.72:1, and call it good.


I also do understand what you mean by the starter motor, it's all a bit subjective to some outside circumstances isn't it?

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[No Cents]

  So I'm guessing Zipper's said your original compression goal was too high for the RS657's?
We pulled a set of 657's out of a bike that was close to 10.75:1 compression. The guy complained about them and had us put in a set of Tman 590's. He liked the 590's a lot better he said. This was a full dressed bagger ridden two up a lot.

[Ohio HD]

Pete ran the numbers over to engineering, so I guess that was Adam. Based on how the bike will be used they suggested 10.75:1 as a good static number to use. I know that they've run their 110 kits with about 195ccp, and all is well. I then made changes and sent the last chart to Pete, he said what I listed, checked with their calculations, and said it was fine.

[No Cents]

  I just thought I would mention it.
His complaint was they were very twitchy at slow speeds at the compression he was running. Zipper's told him he would be fine too. The bike was tuned by Jim Kennedy both times.

[Ohio HD]

Well, we'll see I guess. Won't be the first time I changed to another cam afterwards. One way to find out. 

[Ohio HD]

Do you know how to render a $100 Jim's crank run out gauge useless? Install studs in your case for the cam plate.   

No big deal, just rigged a test gauge to check the pinion run out. Not what I wanted to see, there's 0.003" run out right at 180° rotation of the crank. So I need to talk to John @ DH and see what the most economical solution will be. This crank has their H-beam rods, and I'd hate to buy them again as I'm sure they can be reused, hopefully. The motor has about 40k miles. Just don't want to start out with 0.003" and it get worse later.


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[tmwmoose]

I went through a very expensive crank learning experience back with my ole 107 .Lots of cranks by different folks they ALL would spread , usually to about .004" and no more. My point here is at .0035" @ 40k I believe the crank has settled and probably wont move anymore unless a heck of a lot more power and abuse is coming its way. Just an opinion

[Ohio HD]

Mark, I tend to think you're right, and your opinion is always welcome. But this is a gear drive motor, so I think addressing it is best. I can't speak for the original measure, as I bought this motor used a few years ago. This is stock HD wheels and shafts with DH H-beam rods.  As far as how it'll get used, probably an easier life than it had in my other bike. But I anticipate a lot more torque under the curve when it goes back together.

[Ohio HD]

I have to buy pistons anyway. If I "do" buy a complete crank, then all I need to buy after that is taller 4.125" cylinders, and it's a 124", and I then have two bikes with 124" motors.

Someone stop me please!   

[1workinman]

Well, you have to consider that a stock 110 rings the bell higher than 200ccp, so compression alone isn't the issue. Get the piston to head squish to 0.033" to 0.037" for a street motor, or tighter if you want. My friend Robin gave me that advice for the 0.033" to 0.037" squish, and I trust what he has to say. As far as the rest, a competent tuner that knows what you want, and how you ride. My 124 is 191 ish ccp, but when warm the motor measures, 200 ish ccp hcp. It doesn't ping unless you over load the motor in the gear your in. This weekend, 93° F and 100° F heat index. No problems riding the 124.

I have given some thought to this a few time , for instance the stock Harley engines with the 255 camshaft have a lot more compression than 200 or I though so.  So what is the difference between 215 or 210 ccp with a 640 SS and a 255 camshaft all things being equal . I do think that keeping the  rpms up helps a lot as I was under the impression that detonation was is dependent on time. That keeping the quench like you suggested is good. One little thing that I have seen is a good oil cooler and the head fans also seem to help keep the engine temps , that and a good tune . My bike is generally used to ride 2 up and I want it to perform well and not ping so I use good fuel ,

[Ohio HD]

Well, you have to consider that a stock 110 rings the bell higher than 200ccp, so compression alone isn't the issue. Get the piston to head squish to 0.033" to 0.037" for a street motor, or tighter if you want. My friend Robin gave me that advice for the 0.033" to 0.037" squish, and I trust what he has to say. As far as the rest, a competent tuner that knows what you want, and how you ride. My 124 is 191 ish ccp, but when warm the motor measures, 200 ish ccp hcp. It doesn't ping unless you over load the motor in the gear your in. This weekend, 93° F and 100° F heat index. No problems riding the 124.

I have given some thought to this a few time , for instance the stock Harley engines with the 255 camshaft have a lot more compression than 200 or I though so.  So what is the difference between 215 or 210 ccp with a 640 SS and a 255 camshaft all things being equal . I do think that keeping the  rpms up helps a lot as I was under the impression that detonation was is dependent on time. That keeping the quench like you suggested is good. One little thing that I have seen is a good oil cooler and the head fans also seem to help keep the engine temps , that and a good tune . My bike is generally used to ride 2 up and I want it to perform well and not ping so I use good fuel ,

Bikes from the factory don't have performance optimized tuning, and they get by with a little more compression in the 110 case. When you start adding timing to make power, it's a balance to get power but not detonate, and adding fuel where needed. The factory also tunes the motor as if it'll be lugged, as it probably will be by a lot of riders. Generally speaking any motor I have ever owned that had higher compression, more cubic inches, etc., you needed to ride them differently.

This compare front cylinder timing table from my '09 bike shows the amount of timing pulled for the stock motor, and the dyno tuned motor from Roeder Racing. Both 96 inch stock compression. The tuned version can be detonated if you lug it.


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[rageglide]

I put 25k on an early twin cam stock crank with .0035 runout With gears.  Right at the limit.  It whined a little initially and at 30k it was .0085"...and whine was less.  I removed the gears and cams and went back to stock before I traded the bike.  Ran pretty damned good at 95" with stock cams.

The 2012 I traded the '05 on had .0065" out of the gate...  Didn't change much from new to when I decided bigger shift was imminent and I'd had enough of stockish power.

I guess my point is, .003" on a DH crank with that many miles, probably not going to shift that much to worry about it in the next 30k.   Maybe Ray knows what runout was when it was built.   I really think we obsess over this - just a weeee bit.

[Ohio HD]

Yeah I agree, we tend to zero in on this, and obsess a little. I guess I could always go back to chain drive cams too. I need to see what the test of the crank is like. I have to look at the drive side run out, and the condition of the rods, side play etc. before deciding the route. I also want to get Johns opinion on it.

[rageglide]

Oh yeah definitely agree you need to check it all out.   My drive side was significant as i recall on my '12, but cant remember off hand...

If you have the gears, I think you'll be just fine.  You did say this is going to be your lazy motor.      BTDT!

[Ohio HD]

We have air channelers! 

As the last set, really nice work by Larry. 


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[Ohio HD]

I took a peak at the drive side sprocket, I like it when it's clear what to do. Dark Horse here I come. I will also say that this motor has had the snot run out of it by me. Many 6,500 rpm shifts, prolonged high RPM running, and just a lot of blasting through the gears. So I have no issues with what I see. If a guy rode this like a sane man, I doubt it would have ever moved, or much at all. As it was the motor has been smooth all along, no noise from the gear drive, etc. As well this is the outer most parts of the shafts, at the bearing surfaces it's probably still pretty tight.


0° = 0.000"
90° = 0.003"
180° = 0.001"
270° = 0.002"
Because it's not easy to find the high and low spots on the splines by rotating the motor. I mark a spot, call it 0°, zero the indicator, then check at 90° intervals. The worst case is at 90° to 270°, showing 0.005" run out.

0° rotation
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90° rotation
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[Ohio HD]

180° rotation
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270° rotation
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[Ohio HD]

I'll also add this, we really don't know that the tops of the splines are a super tight tolerance from one to the next. We can see it's not a smooth machining, and it's purpose is not important that they are to be exact. If it were like 0.010" swing or higher, then we probably can be sure it's moved a lot.


So in the end,   

[kd]

So total run-out deflection using those data points is Just over .005.  Did you notice the needle go outside the +.003 or the -.002 as you were rotating the shaft?  I have found that there is usually some brg play that seems to show up causing enough deviation to make the target points be not repeatable with high accuracy, but they are close enough to give an average.

[Ohio HD]

I really didn't pay too much attention to the in between readings, but nothing seemed to jump excessively. These numbers were repeatable with three rotations of the crank. I didn't try to find a high or low spot to start by. You always will find any deflection at 90° intervals. If there were none, or less than this, I would have moved the start point to 45° and started again. In the end these are stock flywheels that DH rebuilt. So I think it's done well based on how they were used. And I don't know where they were at the beginning, I'm sure John does.

I already had it in my head that this would probably get addressed. It's the only part that's not new. New heads, new pistons, new cams, and lifters, oil pump yet to be determined as I haven't look at it yet. No point in short changing it now. Might just go with an S&S for non stock pistons, we'll see. Also I need to see if DH will custom balance a stock S&S crank. 

[Barrett]

Are you changing the stroke now?

[Ohio HD]

No, I'll keep it 4-3/8". From what I've learned with my 124" and this 117", although the 124" is smooth, the 117" is smoother. This bike is going to remain what it is today, just a decent daily rider.

[1workinman]

I really didn't pay too much attention to the in between readings, but nothing seemed to jump excessively. These numbers were repeatable with three rotations of the crank. I didn't try to find a high or low spot to start by. You always will find any deflection at 90° intervals. If there were none, or less than this, I would have moved the start point to 45° and started again. In the end these are stock flywheels that DH rebuilt. So I think it's done well based on how they were used. And I don't know where they were at the beginning, I'm sure John does.

I already had it in my head that this would probably get addressed. It's the only part that's not new. New heads, new pistons, new cams, and lifters, oil pump yet to be determined as I haven't look at it yet. No point in short changing it now. Might just go with an S&S for non stock pistons, we'll see. Also I need to see if DH will custom balance a stock S&S crank.

I doubt I run my engine any harder but I damn sure don't baby it , My bottom end is stock SS . I be interested in hearing what dark horse has to say about the crank shaft. So if you have to get another crank are you going the 124 . So what does Dark horse recommend for guys what like to run there engine. I not been accused of lugging it yet lol  .

[Ohio HD]

I really didn't pay too much attention to the in between readings, but nothing seemed to jump excessively. These numbers were repeatable with three rotations of the crank. I didn't try to find a high or low spot to start by. You always will find any deflection at 90° intervals. If there were none, or less than this, I would have moved the start point to 45° and started again. In the end these are stock flywheels that DH rebuilt. So I think it's done well based on how they were used. And I don't know where they were at the beginning, I'm sure John does.

I already had it in my head that this would probably get addressed. It's the only part that's not new. New heads, new pistons, new cams, and lifters, oil pump yet to be determined as I haven't look at it yet. No point in short changing it now. Might just go with an S&S for non stock pistons, we'll see. Also I need to see if DH will custom balance a stock S&S crank.

I doubt I run my engine any harder but I damn sure don't baby it , My bottom end is stock SS . I be interested in hearing what dark horse has to say about the crank shaft. So if you have to get another crank are you going the 124 . So what does Dark horse recommend for guys what like to run there engine. I not been accused of lugging it yet lol  .

First of all, I want everyone to understand that I am in no way saying that this crank has failed, is inferior, or hasn't held up as it should. I can't remember too many guys that have run a motor hard, and accumulated miles on it, then gave readings on the crank, unless it was a severely failed crank.


My only conversation with John will be, what path do you recommend we go?

Had I not opened this motor, I would have probably ridden it another 40k miles. It only came open because it's being repurposed in a different bike, and will be used differently now. And I see no point in going forward with a 1/2 of a rebuilt motor.

I have no doubt I can destroy any motor part made if I tried. Crankshafts are no exception. I just want to be clear that I am not unhappy with how the crank has held up. It will remain a 117", I have a 124 in another bike.

[No Cents]

  Brian...wrap a piece of masking tape around the splines....just don't over lap the ends. It makes it easier to get a good reading on the primary side.

[Ohio HD]

That's a good idea Ray, maybe I can find a low spot, and then see how the reading comes out. I still think at minimum as a friend suggested to me, I'll send this in to have it rebuilt fresh. Otherwise when I have 40k on the new top end and cams, the lower end will have 80k, an will no doubt need looked at again. All of the expensive work is done already, the Timken conversion and cases bored.

[No Cents]

  As you probably know I have been following this kind of close. I would be interested to hear what John has to say about what you have found. I think I have the final crank run out figures that John provided. I'll send them to you if I can find them if you want them.

[Ohio HD]

If you run across them Ray, please send them to me.

[No Cents]

  I'll go out in the barn in the morning and see if I can find it.
I saved the invoice on the computer...but it just has a list of the parts used and the price.

[No Cents]

 maybe some of this will help. 

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[Ohio HD]

Thanks, I do have that, you sent that to me when I got the motor from you.

I may just have John rebuild whats already there. It took a heck of a beating for the past 40k miles. It's not like it was highway cruising miles.   

He also has a Man-O-War 4-3/8 crank. I have the 4-5/8 version in the 124". 

[No Cents]

  I know my 124 has taken a serious beating on it this year. I run the dog snot out of it every time I ride it.
I will probably retire this engine after this season.

[1workinman]

Thanks, I do have that, you sent that to me when I got the motor from you.

I may just have John rebuild whats already there. It took a heck of a beating for the past 40k miles. It's not like it was highway cruising miles.   

He also has a Man-O-War 4-3/8 crank. I have the 4-5/8 version in the 124".

well i just asking as i like to learn. I know Dark Horse does great work , . Sir is the Man O War crank the perfer crank from Dark Horse .
. I like your attention to detail also . I meant no disrespect toward DH , just like to learn from these discussions thanks jim

[Ohio HD]

Thanks, I do have that, you sent that to me when I got the motor from you.

I may just have John rebuild whats already there. It took a heck of a beating for the past 40k miles. It's not like it was highway cruising miles.   

He also has a Man-O-War 4-3/8 crank. I have the 4-5/8 version in the 124".

well i just asking as i like to learn. I know Dark Horse does great work , . Sir is the Man O War crank the perfer crank from Dark Horse .
. I like your attention to detail also . I meant no disrespect toward DH , just like to learn from these discussions thanks jim

No worries at all, I just wanted to be clear to all that I wasn't insinuating that the Darkhorse's crank was in any way failed. This is basically an HD crank rebuilt, and DH added their H-beam rods. And this motor has had a hard run life.


The Man O War crank is made from S&S flywheels and shafts John had told me, but using DH rods and I assume their own crank pin. Then fit to their tolerances. Here's the 4-3/8 flywheel listed on their site. I assume they only stock the 4-3/8 and the 4-5/8 is all custom built.


To me one of the huge things that sets DH apart is they have really good customer service. John has been extremely helpful when ever I had questions and concerns.



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[turboprop]

Just to add to the Darkhorse Cranks are indestructible discussion, I had a clutch basket crack in half this summer while doing about 90. Split the primary case wide open, broke the chain in two places, immediately locked up the engine, trans main shaft was bent up very bad. The Darkhorse Man-O-War crank measured the same runout as it did when I assembled it. Amazing.

[Ohio HD]

I remember when that happened, and there was a concern that the crank took a hit. There are probably three to four great options as far as building a crank for an HD. DH just happens to be who I've heard the most positive comments about, and now my own experiences with their products and their service has made them my go to guys for cranks.


Off subject a little, but a few years back I had contacted John about the possibility of DH making an inline rod, HD style crank to replace a side by side rod Power House 114 crank. I gave him some pertinent measurements and info. In the end the motor owner elected to use the original crank, and source the specially offset pistons. But DH was not shying away from a completely custom crank. Not many places will or can do that.


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[Ohio HD]

Back on topic. The motor is down to the case and crank. Considering the miles and the way it was ridden, everything looks pretty darn good. Cylinders look decent, just a slight scuff on the thrust side, but not very bad at all. Pistons look ok, some scuffing again on the thrust sides. Being these are forged, and probably were setup at 0.0025" not too bad. Rocker shafts and rocker bushings look good and feel tight. Lower end, the rods feel great, no loosnes detected, no twist, slight side to side on the front rod, really nothing on the rear. I haven't checked any clearances as I'm waiting to speak to Darkhorse to get their specs. Oil pump looks like new, seriously. Cam plate has some normal scuffing at the cam gear and thrust washer areas. Bushings all feel good, nice smooth fit on the cams. Pinion bushing doesn't rock on the pinion shaft.

Will order pistons next week, speak to John at DH to see what he thinks, then will move forward once the pistons come, probably 3 to 4 weeks for them.


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[Ohio HD]

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[pwmorris]

Just to add to the Darkhorse Cranks are indestructible discussion, I had a clutch basket crack in half this summer while doing about 90. Split the primary case wide open, broke the chain in two places, immediately locked up the engine, trans main shaft was bent up very bad. The Darkhorse Man-O-War crank measured the same runout as it did when I assembled it. Amazing.

Two 200 plus HP motors with the DH seal of approval...
Nuff said...

[turboprop]

Just to add to the Darkhorse Cranks are indestructible discussion, I had a clutch basket crack in half this summer while doing about 90. Split the primary case wide open, broke the chain in two places, immediately locked up the engine, trans main shaft was bent up very bad. The Darkhorse Man-O-War crank measured the same runout as it did when I assembled it. Amazing.

Two 200 plus HP motors with the DH seal of approval...
Nuff said...

My red bike is only 158, but maybe some day.

[No Cents]

  Brian...I had no luck yesterday finding the tag with the run out measurements on it. I've put it some where...I just don't know where. I'll keep looking. I'll probably find it when I'm not looking for it. That's the way it usually goes for me.   

  Those pistons still look pretty good for the miles they had on them. 

[Ohio HD]

The whole motor looks really good for 40k miles. And not highway miles, all types of riding. Had I not wanted to do something different, it would still be together being used. No worries on the tag. I'll get John's opinion as to what he thinks the best route is.

[Ohio HD]

Life has been getting in the way, it does that. But then today I feel like a kid at Christmas. I received a box today from Calif Phil, with two letters on it, S&S. A new pump and cam plate for the 117" renew. And then I felt like I was talking to Santa Clause because I was able to speak to Randy Torgeson after he returned from his trip out east, and got a set of pistons on order. So they will be a bit before they get here.

I have everything else, cams, lifters, heads, gaskets, seals, new breathers, new TB, etc., just need to send the crank to DH when I get the pistons in and weighed, and at the same time have Bill fit the pistons to the cylinders.

Like a Christmas present
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[Ohio HD]

What's the difference between the CVO110 vs 110+ ?

The 110+ heads use the same valve sizes that the MVA heads use. I think they can accommodate up to 0.660" lift out of the box, CVO heads can't. What was explained to me was the 110+ heads came first, the MVA was after, and improved. Both need work to make them as good as they can be, as most HD heads do.

[Ohio HD]

Bill brought my cylinders over, they look great, as all of his work does.

It's all coming slow, life keeps getting in the way.


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