117" Renew

[sfmichael]

Sounds like a great build - looking forward to the results   

[Ohio HD]

I'm not too interested in what the top end power comes in at, this 117 is going to go in my 2009 Ultra. More interested in mid range pull. From what Larry said the lower and mid lift flow was really good. So I feel like it'll do what I hope for. The TB is a new SE 58mm, and the injectors are SE 5.3gm/s.

[No Cents]

 that Larry guy does great work!   

[skunk]

First of all, anyone that has a pair of those, well they can't ride anyway. So, NO!
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Not entirely true, Just have to leave the heal shifter on cause with them on you cant get the toe under the front peg. Now shifting with a pair of mens size 10 1/2 Stiletto's is another whole story, pointed heal is a bitch to hit the rear peg 

[Ohio HD]

that Larry guy does great work!   

Yes he does Ray, yes he does.   

[Don D]

From what Larry said the lower and mid lift flow was really good

No discredit to Larry, he does nice work, but in my opinion there is a fallacy that low to mid lift flow numbers higher = more low end to mid-range torque.

The 110+ head is a nice piece to start with, better than the CVO 110 head again in my opinion

[Barrett]

What's the difference between the CVO110 vs 110+ ?

[Ohio HD]

lolz I saw those pics earlier.  Nice to know where they're going.   That 117" always sounded like a real good runner.

You should send the "wore out" heads to Larry... just for fun and as a bench mark.  Or not.    My 120" rolled 144/133 and i have absolutely no idea what the flow numbers are  :-/  But it gets it done and are probably comparable to your wore out heads. 

Going to watch what happens here with interest.   

Sorry, missed this. Those heads on the motor now will  make their way back to Larry at some point, just not yet. I have a 110 to build for another project after this one is done. The 117 has Fueling 594 cams in it now. They make decent power, just not a lot down under 3,000. The Red Shift cams should give a broader power band, I hope.

[Armin]

Hi OHD, your combo looks like a promising setup. With the expected CCP of 205 to 210 how to yo manage the ignition timing paired with the AFR to safely stay away from pinging? My build is a 95 enginge with CP 9.7 domed pistons and with heads ported and revalved I arrive at a CCP of 207using Tman 625 cams, combustion chambers being around 82.5 and this setup is very very close to pinging when ambient temp is getting up to summer numbers. When I switched to using wood TW9BG cams the pinging was totally gone due to the later closing time, but they have steeper lobes and are very noisy compared to the TR625. I'd like to re-use the TR625, any suggestions to reduce the pinging risk?

Armin.

[Ohio HD]

Well, you have to consider that a stock 110 rings the bell higher than 200ccp, so compression alone isn't the issue. Get the piston to head squish to 0.033" to 0.037" for a street motor, or tighter if you want. My friend Robin gave me that advice for the 0.033" to 0.037" squish, and I trust what he has to say. As far as the rest, a competent tuner that knows what you want, and how you ride. My 124 is 191 ish ccp, but when warm the motor measures, 200 ish ccp hcp. It doesn't ping unless you over load the motor in the gear your in. This weekend, 93° F and 100° F heat index. No problems riding the 124.

[Ohio HD]

Mr. Larry is shipping the heads, so I need to pull the top end this weekend and verify the cylinder height, the S&S cylinders should be 4.878", but I want to be sure. Will order custom domed CP pistons to make the compression needed. I called my friend Bill, and favorite cylinder specialist today. He retired in January of this year. I asked him if he'll bore my S&S cylinders, he said he will, so that makes me happy. My 124 is sealed so well all I ever see from the crank vents is clear moisture when the humidity is high. Never even a drop of oil in the discharge. He's perfected cylinder prep after 40 years of boring anything you can think of. I'm not rushed to do this, just need to get the next steps going. 



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[rageglide]

I would sure think after 40 yrs he's got it nailed.  Is that your own calculator?   

[Ohio HD]

Yeah, he knows one or two things about bike motors. Bill owned Bore-Tech, and also has worked on so many different bikes, many no has ever seen. That back ground has made him extremely knowledgeable. He works on what he wants now that he's retired. He has a 1913 Excelsior he currently is rebuilding for a guy.

The top calculator is 100% mine, the lower one was made by someone else, I added a few bells and whistles to it.

[rigidthumper]

 IIRC, the MOCO six speed  4&3/8" stroke cranks had 7.659 rods, five speed cranks had 7.667 rods.
Did this have an S&S crank in it?

[Ohio HD]

It has DH H-beam rods. The dimension of 7.670" is what John gave me for the H-beams. I plan to check the crank for runout, bearing play, etc.


I plan to measure everything, except the rode rod length on disassembly, to verify what is what. I'll check piston deck height at TDC, and then measure the cylinders and the piston compression height. It has CP bullet series pistons in it, so everything should go back as it is now as far as deck height.

[rigidthumper]

I should have known Ray would have used only the good stuff 

[Ohio HD]

Exactly!   

[Cracked Head]

Have used this cam often.10.5-10.8 will work fine.Don't trust calculators on this one. the c.c.p.will be 200-205 depending on starter motor and battery.Big midrange torque,good horsepower.I made 110 heads that flowed about the same,expect  low to mid 140's torque,mid to upper 130's horsepower.Mine was with a G carb.FI may be better yet.

[Ohio HD]

It's a home grown calculator that I've sort of adjusted to work at my elevation. I based the values I calculate against from known measurements I made and the actual ccp results. So it's very close. You also have to think in terms of corrected compression and valve closing. The SE 255's close at 25, and the 110 motor makes more than 200ccp, some as high as 220ccp.

[Barrett]

On Big Boyz site mine comes in @ 198.7. I was shooting for 10.8 but ended up about 10.5 after my heads were done.
In the long run I'm probably better off at 10.5. It gets hot in Fl. and I do have a bottle..

[rageglide]

Good stuff.  The compression calculator looks similar to the Big Boyz calculator (which also has altitude, but I'm sure you know that).   Is the one you're using standalone and how does it compare with BBoyz?   I've found the BBoyz calc to be pretty close to reality @ sea level.  (my 120" cold cranks 210 and BB calc says 210.x @ sea level)

Bob

[Ohio HD]

It's stand alone. It compares very close to BB.


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[rageglide]

 

[Ohio HD]

Have used this cam often.10.5-10.8 will work fine.Don't trust calculators on this one. the c.c.p.will be 200-205 depending on starter motor and battery.Big midrange torque,good horsepower.I made 110 heads that flowed about the same,expect  low to mid 140's torque,mid to upper 130's horsepower.Mine was with a G carb.FI may be better yet.

So the fine fellers at Zippers reviewed my info, and they also did recommended a touch less compression. So we'll target 10.75:1 static compression. A +6cc dome should get me to 10.72:1, and call it good.


I also do understand what you mean by the starter motor, it's all a bit subjective to some outside circumstances isn't it?

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[No Cents]

  So I'm guessing Zipper's said your original compression goal was too high for the RS657's?
We pulled a set of 657's out of a bike that was close to 10.75:1 compression. The guy complained about them and had us put in a set of Tman 590's. He liked the 590's a lot better he said. This was a full dressed bagger ridden two up a lot.