What happened ?

[Frédéric CM]

Hello Guys,

Health goes bad, engine goes bad, what else will fail

Was doing a WOT to pass a car, then at around 5500rpms, engine cut off like if i've stalled... and nothing more, no more power/throttle... then few seconds latter (was coasting to stop on the side of the road), engine goes "clac clac clac clac"...
Removed the plugs once home (2 hour laters...), something seems to have hit the front plug (small impact, and it closed the gap by half), and no more comp on that cylinder...
Bike is a 2014 103 Street Bob, with 57H, 0.030" and stock heads.

Almost finished the tear down : broken valve spring retainer (front intake), valve almost falled into the cylinder (the seal catched the grooves), the valve bent, broke the guide wich fall into the combustion chamer, to finish into the squish area of the head...

How do I check the crank ? no excessise play on the wirst pin, i cannot fell any up and down movement of the rod just some side play, and 'ill measure runout today...


I know head can be rebuild, but I guess it's the good time to go 110", with ported head and new cams.
I need some advices for the cams, I like what Durwood get when he tune CR595 cams, but i'ld like the torque curve a little more on the left. Maybe a TMan 585 ps ? (I don't want the HP still climbing at 6k rpms).

Thank you !

[Frédéric CM]

(and the head)

[tmwmoose]

What a bummer , feel for ya hope you get feeling better so you can tackle this motor

[Armin]

Gee, that really sucks... hope that you're able to get things straight again!!! What valves and locks were you using in that config? I wouldn't go for 110" without examining the crank/flywheel outside the engine housing. Options are to go the S&S way or to get your crank repaired. Camwise your idea to use Tman cams ain't bad since you are seeking low end torque. I'm running Tman TR625G in my 95 build and it appears to be a torque monster with ported heads and 10.7 static compression. I used Wood TW6G and TW9BG before, they are great cams for stumppullers, but the are noiy because of their steep lobes.

Lots of luck to get things done...

Armin.

[Yo_Boss]

Looks like the Tman 590 PS or the Tman 600 PS might be good options. I too had been eyeing the CR 595 but I also like the torque more to the left.

[sfmichael]

Sorry for your bad luck 

Fix the head and go back together, not likely you really hurt anything. How many miles? I might do both heads just to be thorough.

If going 110, pull the cylinders and rotate the crankshaft by moving the connecting rods and see if it feels smooth. No tight spots or additional friction while turning usually indicates the crank is okay. Measure the run-out with a dial indicator if you're worried but I would say rod bearing failure is more common than crank failure... and both were rare in my world.

Going 110 and want torque? Try the CR575 - should be a home run. Message Durwood and see what he says.

Good luck 

[Frédéric CM]

Measured the runout yesterday, got 0.004", no play on the rod bearing (hard to fell because the front have some side play), and no excessive play on wirst pin bushing... good to go !

Back to my parts list to order...

- Can someone confirm me that the M42 inj is the usual 5.3gr injector ? https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/harley-davidson-black-ops / https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/56010us450-42lbs/hr
- what clutch spring ?

[rageglide]

That is the same injector I'm using on my 120".  Might be overkill for your combo, but I have no doubt they will work, as long as you get it tuned properly after.   

I used the Harley's add-a-plate clutch w/spring kit and it held up to 140+tq without slipping on the dyno.  It does slip in day to day use.  The heavier spring is available seperately from H-D and probably work fine.  The H-D spring is pretty stiff and can get old in heavy traffic.  That said, I never had any issues with my 103" with 57H cam and the stock clutch and clutch plates.

edit - btw my comments above are assuming you are skipping the 110 idea if you're not splitting the cases for a new crank...

[Frédéric CM]

Crank is fine so no cases splitting, and will do the 110

[yobtaf103]

Real tough luck, TR625 110 bolt on /head work/supermeg, nice torque early & holds on

2011 FLSTF, in dyno section

[Armin]

Real tough luck, TR625 110 bolt on /head work/supermeg, nice torque early & holds on

2011 FLSTF, in dyno section

Could you post your dyno run when you're done?
I run the TR625G in my 2001 FLSTCI 95 with ported heads and it's a real stumppuller. I'll get it dynoed soon and shall post my results.

Armin.

[yobtaf103]

Real tough luck, TR625 110 bolt on /head work/supermeg, nice torque early & holds on

2011 FLSTF, in dyno section

Could you post your dyno run when you're done?
I run the TR625G in my 2001 FLSTCI 95 with ported heads and it's a real stumppuller. I'll get it dynoed soon and shall post my results.

Armin.

Bumped it to top of "Dyno Runs" page

[Armin]

Got it, great curve!

Armin.

[Frédéric CM]

what exhaust do you recommend for the build ?

[Frédéric CM]

Bassani Road Rage II mega power ?

[Frédéric CM]

Cylinders will be on my hands today First new parts !

[sfmichael]

Cylinders will be on my hands today First new parts !

   

[Frédéric CM]

Current state
[attach=0]

[Frédéric CM]

...and the maths
[attach=0]

[sfmichael]

have you decided on the cams yet?

[Frédéric CM]

Yes, T-Man 585 PS (now called 590 PS2), here are the final specs :
2014 FXDB Street Bob
S&S 110" Bolt In cylinders
WFO Larry Stage 2+ CNC heads
TMan Performance 585 PS cams
HPi 55mm TB with 5.3inj
Bassani Road Rage 2 Mega Power 2-1
SE stage1 intake
10.7 static, 204ccp

Btw, does someone here have a tune (DPV) I can use as basemap ?
Thanks

[Yo_Boss]

Looks like a nice build. Can't wait to see a dyno sheet, I have been wondering about that cam.

[sfmichael]

Yes, T-Man 585 PS (now called 590 PS2), here are the final specs :
2014 FXDB Street Bob
S&S 110" Bolt In cylinders
WFO Larry Stage 2+ CNC heads
TMan Performance 585 PS cams
HPi 55mm TB with 5.3inj
Bassani Road Rage 2 Mega Power 2-1
SE stage1 intake
10.7 static, 204ccp

Btw, does someone here have a tune (DPV) I can use as basemap ?
Thanks

excellent recipe 

[jsachs1]

What a bummer , feel for ya hope you get feeling better so you can tackle this motor

That's becoming more common.  That and broken beehive springs. That's why I won't use them unless the customer insists.
John

[No Cents]

   Frederic CM...do you have your piston dome calculated correct in the Big Boyz's calculator?
You entered 0.8 cc's. The pistons in your picture look to have a little more dome on them than 0.8 cc's.    Maybe it's just me and I'm seeing them at a bad angle.

[Frédéric CM]

S&S (CP) give .75 as dome volume

[rigidthumper]

When you deduct the valve relief volume from the dome volume, it measures less than +1 cc, so the +.75 is prolly accurate.

[No Cents]

  you guys are probably correct on the dome cc's.
When I looked at the piston in the front cylinder in his picture, the piston dome appeared to be larger than 0.75 cc's. The dome on the front piston just looked to be taller than my +4cc domed CP pistons are. I guess it's an illusion.     
  I'll blame it on my new glasses.   

[Frédéric CM]

I guess the thing is that the valve relief cutout is very deep, hence the low CC's

[sfmichael]

What a bummer , feel for ya hope you get feeling better so you can tackle this motor

That's becoming more common.  That and broken beehive springs. That's why I won't use them unless the customer insists.
John

John, are those factory parts only that are failing and are aftermarket beehives available? They seem to work well in mild to moderate auto engine builds.

[Hilly13]

I think you will like your new cam, I have it at less static comp than you in my 110 FLSS with stock heads and I really like it.

[Frédéric CM]

Need some advice about the air cleaner, I currently have this one (with K&N HD-0808 instead of synthetic) : https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-stage-i-air-cleaner-kit-pa-18-29400235--1
I don't know if it will flow enough for the new build.

Does someone know this one ? https://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=63-1137
Or what do you guys recommend ? S&S Stealth ? Big Sucker (II ?) ? Other ?

[Frédéric CM]

All Done : https://youtu.be/7gi27jtY41g

[aabikrman]

 

Sounds real good,  Should be a great runner !

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Nice! 

[Yo_Boss]

 Have you had it dyno tuned? Do you have a chart to share?

[Frédéric CM]

Didn't finished the heat cycles yet... I can't wait to try it on the road !

I don't have any competent dyno operator nearby, I'll tune it using DJ Target Tune. If I can, I'll have try to have a dyno pull once tuned.


I'ld like to thank everyone who was involved in the build

[Frédéric CM]

Did about 600km with the bike now, I really like the new build : It start to pull as low as 1800rpm (!!), big boost in torque from 2500 to 3500. I didn't rev it more than that because the engine ins't fully breaked in.

Target Tune is a very nice add-on, it makes the "initial" tuning much easier. I still have 200km left to do for break in, I hope to do it before the snow but it seems compromise...  When will it be safe for the engine to do WOT runs (for tuning purpose) ?

Cams (590ps2) are a bit noisy (Woods Alpha Lifters & Smith Brothers Pushrods, adjusted 4turns 2flats (about .135")), how to determin if it is too much/abnormal or not ? Already have Rockouts in

I need some advice for the clutch : I will put the SE spring (380lbs), will it be enough to prevent slippage, or should I also add a +1 plate kit (Alto ? Barnett ?) while i'm in there ?

Thanks

[klammer76]

Nice job. I bet it is a blast to ride.

[1FSTRK]

 
Nice looking bike, I bet it is a blast with that new engine combo.

Just to back track was the original engine in post 1 stock or did it have head work and cams?

[Frédéric CM]

It had just a 57H and a 0.030" HG before

[Snowyone]

I used the SE race clutch kit on my 124 and can detect no slippage.  Does give your hand a workout though.  Also put one on my 107 and backed the nuts way off and it doesn't slip.  They have a formula on how many turns for X amount of torque.  A bit more reasonable priced alternative to the high dollar clutch replacements.  Sure are a noisy enough cams.  I can hear them on your utube video.  Mine make noise to but after years running shovel and pan motor bikes I'd be wondering what was wrong if I didn't hear the rattle.

[Smarty]

Did about 600km with the bike now, I really like the new build : It start to pull as low as 1800rpm (!!), big boost in torque from 2500 to 3500. I didn't rev it more than that because the engine ins't fully breaked in.

Target Tune is a very nice add-on, it makes the "initial" tuning much easier. I still have 200km left to do for break in, I hope to do it before the snow but it seems compromise...  When will it be safe for the engine to do WOT runs (for tuning purpose) ?

Cams (590ps2) are a bit noisy (Woods Alpha Lifters & Smith Brothers Pushrods, adjusted 4turns 2flats (about .135")), how to determin if it is too much/abnormal or not ? Already have Rockouts in

I need some advice for the clutch : I will put the SE spring (380lbs), will it be enough to prevent slippage, or should I also add a +1 plate kit (Alto ? Barnett ?) while i'm in there ?

Thanks

I don't think it's the Tman cam, more likely the Woods lifters. The ones I've used were noisy at idle but pumped up good under higher rpms. A set of S&S premium lifters would quieten it down. Nice work.

[Yo_Boss]

You really need to get that bike on a Dyno!

[Frédéric CM]

I'ld love too once I finished tuning

[Hilly13]

Mate I'm running the same cams, love the way it goes, not noisy but I'm using the Johnson Hilift EDI lifters and lockers, will be keeping them, your bike looks and sounds awesome by the way

[itsafatboy]

I use this air filter on my 116" its a deeper tapered filter very nice , and washable and no oil , never need another filter make sure you talk to them and get the deeper filter ,

http://exotx.com/filters.htm

[N-gin]

Glad to see it back whole again.
For clutch I'd go with Sportman with a Barnnet basket..
Whatever clutch I recamend the basket for any build.

[lucasg]

Frederic MC:  just watched the video..sounds like a beast.  Very nicely done.  I too noticed somewhat loud ticking noise as well(maybe my speakers ?) 
Overall great sounding bike and I'm sure it'll be a strong runner.  Tres bien Monsieur..

[biggzed]

Solid build and sounds great. Nice looking bike as well. How do you like that front brake set-up?

Zach

[cdonis]

Glad to see it back whole again.
For clutch I'd go with Sportman with a Barnnet basket..
Whatever clutch I recamend the basket for any build.

×2 on the basket.  I grenaded mine....not good