What options for Hyd Clutch for 2008 CVO with 130/130, and weak hands!

[GunShyKennedy]

What options are there for lowering the hand pressure exerted on the above mentioned bike?
Currently fitted with a Barnett spring diaphragm and Barnett plates.
Heck of a pull to the bars, especially in town.

Pre 2011 hydraulic clutches on CVOs seem to be different to the later models.
Any advice?
Different master or slave cylinder for better ratio?
Or what clutch assembly is going to be easier work on the hands?
Bank near broken  Thanks.

[farmall]

Good reduced effort ramp discussion below. The Harley parts cost much less than Muller.  Paste the part numbers into your preferred search engine for dealer links from the usual sources. Total should be under thirty bucks.

I spotfaced mine to suit a Baker release bearing. (That doesn't prevent use of the POS stock bearing in future if ya can't find a Baker wafer bearing.) I'm casement on that forum:

https://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine/74424-reduced-effort-clutch-ramps-p-n.html

[PoorUB]

Call me confused,  but what does the ball and ramps a reduced  effort stuff  have to do with a hydraulic  actuated clutch?

[farmall]

They are an option if you don't mind getting rid of the hydraulic clutch. 

I don't want hydraulics on my bike because it's more maintenance with no roadside fix options. If you want more hydraulic advantage that would require a smaller diameter master cylinder with volume calculated for a usable throw. Since IIRC no one sells those it might be doable with a sleeve (as commonly done on Norton Commando brake cylinders) but that's a fair bit of work. You'd need the rest of the cable clutch parts of course and to find which swap.

Example thread of many:
https://www.harley-davidsonforums.com/forums/touring-general-discussions/234370-conversion-hydraulic-clutch-cable.html

A stainless line reduces wasted motion in a hydraulic system. Worth remembering if you get close to what you want with hydraulics but need better feel.

Really the best thing to do unless your hands are damaged is exercise them with a hand exerciser. The motion used to pull a clutch lever is one most people don't use for anything else. Muscles are a use it or lose it proposition.

Yet another that might suit is running a centrifugal assist clutch instead of a heavy Barnett spring. They were invented for hot rods and have been available for HDs for quite a while.

[Coyote]

Maintenance doesn't get any lower than it is on a hyd clutch. Never seen a hyd clutch fail... seen some cable ones break though. 

[GunShyKennedy]

Want to retain the hydraulic clutch. I've not had a hydraulic clutch failure to date.
Currently fitted with a VPC.

The hand muscles used are old and near worn out, like the rest of the body they're attached to.
Prefer to enjoy the ride, rather than endure it.

If there is a sleeving solution of the master cylinder, or a replacement then that's a good thing.

Can't afford a new coil spring clutch assembly.

What is the difference between the pre 2010 hyd cluch assembly and the later ones? The difference that would prevent fitting a later hydraulic clutch. 

[1FSTRK]

Want to retain the hydraulic clutch. I've not had a hydraulic clutch failure to date.
Currently fitted with a VPC.

The hand muscles used are old and near worn out, like the rest of the body they're attached to.
Prefer to enjoy the ride, rather than endure it.

If there is a sleeving solution of the master cylinder, or a replacement then that's a good thing.

Can't afford a new coil spring clutch assembly.

What is the difference between the pre 2010 hyd cluch assembly and the later ones? The difference that would prevent fitting a later hydraulic clutch.

If you are running a VPC why not get rid of the heavy Barnett spring and drop back to the early stock spring?

[johnk1173]

muller power clutch and made all the difference for me. I have nerve damage which left my left arm weak and the clutch pull difficult. So much easier now with the power clutch, it literally takes half the effort it did before.

[Otterhigh]

A lever that is closer to the bar like a sofbrake reduced reach lever will reduce felt exertion, if it's really that bad Rekluse probably makes a clutch for your bike that you wouldn't have to squeeze the lever unless you wanted to. Not sure if they will handle that power but may be worth a look if it keeps you riding. I've ridden them on dirt bikes and sportsters built for the woods but not a big twin.

[Deye76]

"If you are running a VPC why not get rid of the heavy Barnett spring and drop back to the early stock spring?"

This.

[GunShyKennedy]

I doubt the stock or SE diaphragm spring will be strong enough for the task.
130/130

[ThumperDeuce]

No cheap solution.  It seems like you need a lock-up clutch.

[Timinator]

I run a STOCK CVO clutch and spring at 131TQ/ 136 HP with a 117 kit for over a year. Roasts the 240 Avon Cobra rear tire pretty bad too. Wife runs a stock CVO clutch and spring at 124TQ/ 126HP with a 110 deal for 10 months now with a sticky 180/60 Night Dragon for street and dragstrip use. She can roast it too. Old Fatboy had 128 TQ/ 121HP with a stock CVO clutch and GT502 tire. No issues with any of them. All are hydraulic clutches and wife has rheumatoid arthritis, gnarly hands, but no problems working the clutch. We beat the poop out of all of them! P.S. we are in our 60s+ too. I really don't know why everyone runs an aftermarket clutch at these HP/TQ levels.
My Fatboy had an extra disc Carbonite clutch & spring in it when I got it. I hated it, never could get neutral when stopped except with the engine off. Replaced/ tweaked/ added SS lines, finally put stock CVO clutch and spring in it and it was fine for years. Just my experiences. TIMINATOR

[GunShyKennedy]

Well, I'll give the stock diaphragm plate a go first, with the VPC.

Thanks for the assistance and sharing personal experience. Appreciated.

Any other suggestions or possible solutions are welcomed.

PS. two operations on the left hand and elbow some 20 years ago showed excessive wear then. Have been known to play hard  .
But hey, maybe I'm a big girls blouse these days.

[1FSTRK]

I run a STOCK CVO clutch and spring at 131TQ/ 136 HP with a 117 kit for over a year. Roasts the 240 Avon Cobra rear tire pretty bad too. Wife runs a stock CVO clutch and spring at 124TQ/ 126HP with a 110 deal for 10 months now with a sticky 180/60 Night Dragon for street and dragstrip use. She can roast it too. Old Fatboy had 128 TQ/ 121HP with a stock CVO clutch and GT502 tire. No issues with any of them. All are hydraulic clutches and wife has rheumatoid arthritis, gnarly hands, but no problems working the clutch. We beat the poop out of all of them! P.S. we are in our 60s+ too. I really don't know why everyone runs an aftermarket clutch at these HP/TQ levels.
My Fatboy had an extra disc Carbonite clutch & spring in it when I got it. I hated it, never could get neutral when stopped except with the engine off. Replaced/ tweaked/ added SS lines, finally put stock CVO clutch and spring in it and it was fine for years. Just my experiences. TIMINATOR

My first guess would be different dynos or maybe you are getting some slip and do not know it.

[No Cents]

I run a STOCK CVO clutch and spring at 131TQ/ 136 HP with a 117 kit for over a year. Roasts the 240 Avon Cobra rear tire pretty bad too. Wife runs a stock CVO clutch and spring at 124TQ/ 126HP with a 110 deal for 10 months now with a sticky 180/60 Night Dragon for street and dragstrip use. She can roast it too. Old Fatboy had 128 TQ/ 121HP with a stock CVO clutch and GT502 tire. No issues with any of them. All are hydraulic clutches and wife has rheumatoid arthritis, gnarly hands, but no problems working the clutch. We beat the poop out of all of them! P.S. we are in our 60s+ too. I really don't know why everyone runs an aftermarket clutch at these HP/TQ levels.
My Fatboy had an extra disc Carbonite clutch & spring in it when I got it. I hated it, never could get neutral when stopped except with the engine off. Replaced/ tweaked/ added SS lines, finally put stock CVO clutch and spring in it and it was fine for years. Just my experiences. TIMINATOR

My first guess would be different dynos or maybe you are getting some slip and do not know it.

   no doubt in my mind.

[Yellow09SERG]

Well, I'll give the stock diaphragm plate a go first, with the VPC.

Thanks for the assistance and sharing personal experience. Appreciated.

Any other suggestions or possible solutions are welcomed.

PS. two operations on the left hand and elbow some 20 years ago showed excessive wear then. Have been known to play hard  .
But hey, maybe I'm a big girls blouse these days.

Running close to that 130/130 mark on a CVO with hyd clutch. Running that Alto Clutch, VP95, and the stock CVO spring. No issues 2up with a trailer and can't really say I notice any heavier level pull

[scott7d]

My first guess would be different dynos or maybe you are getting some slip and do not know it.

I was going to say, my bike at stage 1 (98hp/114tq) was showing some slip on the dyno with the stock clutch and could be felt just a tad when getting on it. I could only imagine how it would have slipped at 120, or even 130+.

To the OP: For what it's worth at this point, I've been using a Barnett clutch pack with the AIM VP-SDR. I can pull the clutch in with two fingers and is much easier to hold in traffic than a majority of bikes I ride. Some bikes feel like I'm having to pull back an anvil compared to this setup. Bike is a 2013 CVO with hydro clutch, supporting 135/133 with no slip that I can feel like I could with the 98hp/114tq stock clutch. Can't recall what springs are in it, would have to ask builder.

[FlaHeatWave]

Well, I'll give the stock diaphragm plate a go first, with the VPC.

Thanks for the assistance and sharing personal experience. Appreciated.

Any other suggestions or possible solutions are welcomed.

PS. two operations on the left hand and elbow some 20 years ago showed excessive wear then. Have been known to play hard  .
But hey, maybe I'm a big girls blouse these days.

Running close to that 130/130 mark on a CVO with hyd clutch. Running that Alto Clutch, VP95, and the stock CVO spring. No issues 2up with a trailer and can't really say I notice any heavier level pull

Sounds like a good recipe,,, any drama??

[GunShyKennedy]

I've changed over the diaphragm spring to the SE 380lb, lighter than the Barnett 480lb.
Little difference in the pull pressure at the hand lever, that I can detect.   

No extra slip and I have a hard pull up a hill on the trip to home.
The AIM VPC must be doing what was intended.

For yuks and grins a bit later, I might change the diaphragm later to the stock SE 110 diaphragm spring ( 320lb? ).

I've managed a solution for essentially a zero cost, having the SE heavy duty 380lb
spring on hand.

Thanks for the help answering the question and guiding toward a solution.

[1FSTRK]

I've changed over the diaphragm spring to the SE 380lb, lighter than the Barnett 480lb.
Little difference in the pull pressure at the hand lever, that I can detect.   

No extra slip and I have a hard pull up a hill on the trip to home.
The AIM VPC must be doing what was intended.

For yuks and grins a bit later, I might change the diaphragm later to the stock SE 110 diaphragm spring ( 320lb? ).

I've managed a solution for essentially a zero cost, having the SE heavy duty 380lb
spring on hand.

Thanks for the help answering the question and guiding toward a solution.

Does your clutch engage close to the grip or out at the end of the throw?

[GunShyKennedy]

/quote]

Does your clutch engage close to the grip or out at the end of the throw?

Closer to the grip. Almost halfway when taking off.
Sorry for the late reply, thanks for your interest.