Which rebuild after 110 seizure

[rigidthumper]

The underside shows me what I expected. Black death. Those chunks of aluminum went everywhere, carried by the oil.

Given your location, new S&S flywheel, new pistons & cylinders to match your desired displacement, new piston squirters, new camplate, oil pump, lifters, cams to suit build, secure a tune/tuner specifically for the new build.


Remove & clean oil bag, split cases, remove every bearing and clean/flush every surface and component that has oil contact, including heads/rockers/shafts/springs/etc. Go back together with new bearings & seals, and upgrade the clutch to hold whatever build you decide on. Get it tuned.

[1FSTRK]

The underside shows me what I expected. Black death. Those chunks of aluminum went everywhere, carried by the oil.

Could you explain to us what "Black death" is and what causes it?

[rigidthumper]

As I understand it, detonation ( typically from the tune being not so great) most often causes the underside of the piston to show black discoloration,( aka black death) as seen in pic # 408.  Too much timing and/or too little fuel for the requested load is believed to be the cause. Detonation can direct forces onto the top of the piston so the piston rattles back and forth in the bore, on the upstroke, causing both the thrust & non-thrust side of the piston to momentarily slap back and forth, causing damage and excessive, rapid, wear. ( pic 405)

[1FSTRK]

Thank you that is what is thought.
I have also seen definitions include, to much fuel washing the cylinder walls, in addition to what you listed in you causes. 

Many seem to forget that because the tune changes with both rpm and load the engine could run both lean in one area and rich in another, as well as too retarded and too advanced.

[Don D]

Good input and suggestions already. One other remote possibility for a cause, loose piston jet(s). This is a known issue.

Conclusion is the likely cause was not a lubrication related issue and more than likely was caused by a tune that was very far off. I suggest you get a handle on how you will get this squared away after you go to the expense and trouble to rebuild it. Consider a Thundermax autotune if you don't have access to a good tuning shop and dyno. If you do have access be sure to interview them and get a feel for their proficiency. Tune on an EFI bike is mission critical.

[1FSTRK]

Good input and suggestions already. One other remote possibility for a cause, loose piston jet(s). This is a known issue.

Conclusion is the likely cause was not a lubrication related issue and more than likely was caused by a tune that was very far off. I suggest you get a handle on how you will get this squared away after you go to the expense and trouble to rebuild it. Consider a Thundermax autotune if you don't have access to a good tuning shop and dyno. If you do have access be sure to interview them and get a feel for their proficiency. Tune on an EFI bike is mission critical.

Don he has PV target tune and that is more than capable of tuning AFR on any HD. The problem as I have seen watching these threads is any build combination that does not come as a kit with a matching EFI cal will be under break in with little to no tune. As you well know the most critical point in an engines life to have correct timing and afr is when you are at the tightest tolerances, highest friction and heat.

[Don D]

Didn't know that and agree with you 100%

[rbabos]

Black death is referred to as sludge breaking free and blocking off oil feed to engine parts. Basically oil related, usually switching to a detergent oil on an engine run for extended periods on none detergent. The failures in this engine from the pics shows serious overheating from any of the possible reasons mentioned. When you expand a piston to gall outside of the cam ground area, that's some serious heat.
Ron

[1FSTRK]

Black death is referred to as sludge breaking free and blocking off oil feed to engine parts. Basically oil related, usually switching to a detergent oil on an engine run for extended periods on none detergent. The failures in this engine from the pics shows serious overheating from any of the possible reasons mentioned. When you expand a piston to gall outside of the cam ground area, that's some serious heat.
Ron

That is interesting, I will have to remember that definition also. I wonder if the different definition is geographic or from engine application. Around my area it is used as Robin described and most usually in race engines, more so with Nitromethane and alcohol straight line stuff but also seen in high performance gas engines.

Always interesting how the language varies from group to group
Tomato; fruit, vegetable, or in the right group of guys a shapely good looking girl. 

[98fxstc]

I had a computer with a problem one time.
I got an IT guy to have a look at it for me.
He said 'Its got the black death" .
The hard drive was stuffed.

Probably comes from the 'Black Death' which occurred from time to time in the Middle Ages in England.
If you get it, you're pretty much cactus.

[Moparnut72]

Black death is referred to as sludge breaking free and blocking off oil feed to engine parts. Basically oil related, usually switching to a detergent oil on an engine run for extended periods on none detergent. The failures in this engine from the pics shows serious overheating from any of the possible reasons mentioned. When you expand a piston to gall outside of the cam ground area, that's some serious heat.
Ron

First of all I will say I have no experience with the internals of Harley engines. I have worked in a shop that overhauled radial aircraft engines. I also have extensive experience with marine outboard motors. In the aircraft engine world, I tore down all the engines that came into the shop and I never saw one with this kind of damage. In the outboard world I have seen this all the time. It is very common. It is almost always always caused by water pump failure, impeller failure, causing severe overheating. Also a result with our racing activities by jacking the motor up too high and losing access to cooling water. This was most certainly caused by an overheating problem. Since this is an air cooled engine we can most likely rule out an external cooling cause. Since these engines are  lubricated and to some degree cooled by the oil supply I would surmise that there was some type of oil supply failure. Since the rear cylinder is much worse than the front and runs hotter I would suspect that this accelerated the damage in this cylinder making it worse than the front. When things started going south, lack of oil, it was the one to show the most damage. I would be looking at the engine oiling starting with the oil bag.

I don't see anything in those pictures that indicate a improper tuning to cause this much damage. The underside of that piston looks perfectly normal to me. Some pitting in the carbon on the top but nothing that indicates severe detonation. Overheating was the cause you just need to find out why. My 2 cents for what it is worth.
kk