Cam advice 4” stroke 96bb

[Johnwesley]

The head I have  are using factory beehive springs. He would like to keep lift below 580 and for touring and long mileage prefers .550 lift. The intake has 1.9” valve and minor porting.  I have s&s cams in it now and compression at 9.8 but while it’s apart I would like to look at some other cams. The rocket .554 cam looks nice but can’t find anyone that runs it. The woods 6 came May be good be the itc is a little later at 40. The other cams I have looked at are 38 itc. Looking for power in the midrange 2500-5500 range.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[PoorUB]

Andrews 57 is a popular cam.

What are you running for cam drive? Chains old or new style?, gears?

Cam availability will depend on chains or gear drive

[Johnwesley]

Stock cam chains with upgraded pads

[838]

Andrews 48 is just a click under .550 and gets the job done on the 4" strokers very well... snappy smooth with a quiet valve train. Great touring selection.

[1FSTRK]

The head I have  are using factory beehive springs. He would like to keep lift below 580 and for touring and long mileage prefers .550 lift. The intake has 1.9" valve and minor porting.  I have s&s cams in it now and compression at 9.8 but while it's apart I would like to look at some other cams. The rocket .554 cam looks nice but can't find anyone that runs it. The woods 6 came May be good be the itc is a little later at 40. The other cams I have looked at are 38 itc. Looking for power in the midrange 2500-5500 range.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Did they give you any flow numbers at all on the heads? HP numbers?
Didn't you post that you had the option of going with a thinner head gasket to raise the static compression?
Do you have TDC lift restrictions with the thinner gasket?
Am I correct being a Dyna with a 2500-5500 rpm running range, that extremely high lowend torque is not as important as equal peak numbers of tq and hp without nosing over before 5500 rpm?
What TB and manifold will be feeding this?

[Johnwesley]

The head I have  are using factory beehive springs. He would like to keep lift below 580 and for touring and long mileage prefers .550 lift. The intake has 1.9" valve and minor porting.  I have s&s cams in it now and compression at 9.8 but while it's apart I would like to look at some other cams. The rocket .554 cam looks nice but can't find anyone that runs it. The woods 6 came May be good be the itc is a little later at 40. The other cams I have looked at are 38 itc. Looking for power in the midrange 2500-5500 range.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Did they give you any flow numbers at all on the heads? HP numbers?
Didn't you post that you had the option of going with a thinner head gasket to raise the static compression?
Do you have TDC lift restrictions with the thinner gasket?
Am I correct being a Dyna with a 2500-5500 rpm running range, that extremely high lowend torque is not as important as equal peak numbers of tq and hp without nosing over before 5500 rpm?
What TB and manifold will be feeding this?

248@.550
With 30 hg I could manage 10:1
Correct high tq at 2500 is not as important as the bike running out through 5500. I would like for it to begin the pull around 2500-2800 and run strong to 5000-5500
Stock intake with some minor work to help flow and stock Tb

If another cam is just a couple of Hp better then there is really no need to change. But if it's a noticeable change in the midrange area of 3,000 with out being unresponsive at 2500 then I'm in for that. Not concerned with making more power after 5500 since I won't ever use that. At this point it's just a few hundred dollars. If I change it later then it's closer to 800 since it will need a new tune.

[Barrett]

Some non roller SE 1.275 rockers will bump up your lift to .541..

[kd]

Some non roller SE 1.275 rockers will bump up your lift to .541..

[DTTJGlide]

I'll throw 3 out there that fit your lift & timing #s, already mentioned Andrews 57s, CR 575s, & Tman 555 torqsters, I don't have any experience with any of them on 4" stroke, maybe somebody else will chime in. Seems since you're still in the build process you might as well change cams than just adding rockers, pretty similar cost wise.

[PoorUB]

Which S&S cams are in it now?

[Johnwesley]

Which S&S cams are in it now?

510

I'll throw 3 out there that fit your lift & timing #s, already mentioned Andrews 57s, CR 575s, & Tman 555 torqsters, I don't have any experience with any of them on 4" stroke, maybe somebody else will chime in. Seems since you're still in the build process you might as well change cams than just adding rockers, pretty similar cost wise.

I don't think they make the 57 for my year bike. I emailed Tman for a cam recommendation and never got a reply. I was thinking the 555 might make a good cam. The cr 575 will work but it's out of of the recommended range on dependable lift for the factory springs, at least that's the machine shops thoughts. If I would have known about that cam earlier I could of had the heads done up for them. Though I could be all wet with those thoughts. Since the 575 is suppose to be a gentle cam, not so aggressive on the ramps.

The heads do go from 248 to 251 at the .600 lift so there is a bit of gain going up.(out loud thinking)

My real problem is I don't know how all of these cam "feel" I do want a lively cam with good throttle response and a strong feeling of pull when it hits.

[Hossamania]

Would the Andrews 55 even make this conversation, or am I way off?
I have them in mine, and they come on at 3000, and really start to sing at 4000 and jump to 6000.

[Johnwesley]

Would the Andrews 55 even make this conversation, or am I way off?
I have them in mine, and they come on at 3000, and really start to sing at 4000 and jump to 6000.

I hear they are good cams but with a ivc of 46 I need to raise the compression more than I can with out different pistons.

[Johnwesley]

Heads have combustion chamber of 80cc

Here is what the light port work and good valve job got me and you can see they really taper off about 550 lift.

[PoorUB]

With the early chain drive the 57's are out. You could go with the 37's, same timing, .510" lift, but the S&S 510 is a bit more cam than the 37 so that would be a backwards move.

Andrews 54 would be another choice. It was a great cam in a stock 96". it could use a bit more compression with your mix of parts.

[sfmichael]

I'll throw 3 out there that fit your lift & timing #s, already mentioned Andrews 57s, CR 575s, & Tman 555 torqsters, I don't have any experience with any of them on 4" stroke, maybe somebody else will chime in. Seems since you're still in the build process you might as well change cams than just adding rockers, pretty similar cost wise.

these are all proven cams that will deliver what you want...I'd bump the compression a tad tho

[DTTJGlide]

Yea I wasn't thinking about you having early style chain cams, the only other one might be a S&S 570, you might be a little weak down low @ 9.8 but wouldn't be as bad on a Dyna. The suggestion of the 1.725 rockers might be a pretty good solution.

[sfmichael]

Well on paper your current cams seem to fill the bill

I have Andrews 44's in a 96"BB and I like them (and my compression is really too low) but it's a relatively light bike ('03 Deuce)

I've also had good luck with SE204'S and currently am running Andrews 54's in my 103 advanced 4*

I'm not sure any cam is going to make a night and day difference over the 510

   

[Adam76]

.......I've also had good luck with SE204'S and currently am running Andrews 54's in my 103 advanced 4* ......

Don't want to hijack,  but can I ask you if you had your time over with the 103 and the 54 cams.  Would you bump the compression and clean up the heads instead of adding the 4* advance?

Thanks

[sfmichael]

.......I've also had good luck with SE204'S and currently am running Andrews 54's in my 103 advanced 4* ......

Don't want to hijack,  but can I ask you if you had your time over with the 103 and the 54 cams.  Would you bump the compression and clean up the heads instead of adding the 4* advance?

Thanks

I've done both. My engine has ported and milled heads and I was going to pull the advance gear out and go back to (0*) stock but I've since decided I will try some Cyclerama CR575's instead.

I'll be installing those over the winter, although I'm not expecting a huge difference. With the higher compression the 4* advance probably wasn't a wise choice, but you don't know unless you try.

[Adam76]

.......I've also had good luck with SE204'S and currently am running Andrews 54's in my 103 advanced 4* ......

Don't want to hijack,  but can I ask you if you had your time over with the 103 and the 54 cams.  Would you bump the compression and clean up the heads instead of adding the 4* advance?

Thanks

I've done both. My engine has ported and milled heads and I was going to pull the advance gear out and go back to (0*) stock but I've since decided I will try some Cyclerama CR575's instead.

I'll be installing those over the winter, although I'm not expecting a huge difference. With the higher compression the 4* advance probably wasn't a wise choice, but you don't know unless you try.

Thanks, that's great info. I'm gong to go with the 103"  54h cams and headwork. Should fit my budget and go pretty well after a goid tune.
👍

[Don D]

Use the CR575

[Adam76]

Use the CR575

These seem like a really solid and popular cam.  They are a big TQ cam though  right?
Is there a way to get more mid and top end with this cam, or should I be looking at a different grind for that?  I'm not riding a heavy touring bike.
Thanks

[1FSTRK]

Use the CR575

Don was recommendation for the OP, Adam76, or both?

[Johnwesley]

I’ve put the cams in bigboyz  Calculator and I advanced the 570 cam 2 degrees just to show the  similarities between the rocket 554 in S&S 570

Seems the rocket would be a good contender and better utilize the heads. Suppose to have a noticeable increase in the midrange over the 510 s&s. So says Chris.

The 554 cam is at the bottom. I had to enter it manually

[838]

I did the 48s at 9.8:1 in a bagger... I was looking at doing the Andrews 57N conversion cam but was told for my application (2 up touring) the 48 was better... you can do a 57 if you get a cam plate and oil pump from a later twin cam... regardless it looks like our specs are similar and I was told to watch the cams tdc lifts and valve clearance if I were to go bigger than the 48... just food for thought.

[PoorUB]

I ran the 57's in a touring bike and liked them, I ran the 48's for a while too. I like to beat on it once in a while so the 57's were a better choice for me.

I am running the CR570-2 now. Andrews does not make a 57 with the older chain drive so for the OP it doesn't make any difference anyway.

[TorQuePimp]

The 48's at 9.8 are the answer

[1FSTRK]

The 48's at 9.8 are the answer

Interesting, what will the peak power rpm be?

[838]

I am running the CR570-2 now. Andrews does not make a 57 with the older chain drive so for the OP it doesn't make any difference anyway.

Are you running the 570-2 in an older chain drive?

[TorQuePimp]

The 48's at 9.8 are the answer

With those heads.....I dunno

Last one I did with 187 heads and a mostly stock 46 tb made 106/99 peaked at 5600 ish.....with TD and some eBay mufflers

Interesting, what will the peak power rpm be?

[PoorUB]

I am running the CR570-2 now. Andrews does not make a 57 with the older chain drive so for the OP it doesn't make any difference anyway.

Are you running the 570-2 in an older chain drive?

New style.

[Admiral Akbar]

With the flow sheet that you have, I'd pick a cam that has a bit longer exhaust duration than intake.

[Johnwesley]

With the flow sheet that you have, I'd pick a cam that has a bit longer exhaust duration than intake.

To be fair on the head flow, they were designed for use with the 510 cam style. With a lot of blow down in the cam. The exhaust port really only got a valve job and coating. If it was a different style cam then the head would have been ported differently.

This is really a cheap mild build. The only reason the question came to the board was it looks like with a touch more lift I could get better performance. Though it could be that the Tb and intake wouldn't flow well enough to take advantage of more lift. That's  why the questions about other cams, or higher ratio rockers. This cam was in the bike before this work was done and I do like the feel of it. Though it wasn't really tuned in. Just a prebuilt map and then street tuned with wide band O2.

[lt1-xjs]

Andrews did make the TW57 for the 99-06 chains under part 288157. They're still available.

[1FSTRK]

With the flow sheet that you have, I'd pick a cam that has a bit longer exhaust duration than intake.

To be fair on the head flow, they were designed for use with the 510 cam style. With a lot of blow down in the cam. The exhaust port really only got a valve job and coating. If it was a different style cam then the head would have been ported differently.

This is really a cheap mild build. The only reason the question came to the board was it looks like with a touch more lift I could get better performance. Though it could be that the Tb and intake wouldn't flow well enough to take advantage of more lift. That's  why the questions about other cams, or higher ratio rockers. This cam was in the bike before this work was done and I do like the feel of it. Though it wasn't really tuned in. Just a prebuilt map and then street tuned with wide band O2.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned going to the S&S 570 in this build using a .030 HG at 10:1 compression. I would think it would be right at home in this combo. it keeps you at the .570 lift and has the favorable exhaust timing your heads require. Kirby, John Sachs and a couple others have made nice power with it in many different size similar builds and posted them in the dyno section.

[PoorUB]

Andrews did make the TW57 for the 99-06 chains under part 288157. They're still available.

They are not listed in the Andrews 2018 catalog or price list.

[Johnwesley]

With the flow sheet that you have, I'd pick a cam that has a bit longer exhaust duration than intake.

To be fair on the head flow, they were designed for use with the 510 cam style. With a lot of blow down in the cam. The exhaust port really only got a valve job and coating. If it was a different style cam then the head would have been ported differently.

This is really a cheap mild build. The only reason the question came to the board was it looks like with a touch more lift I could get better performance. Though it could be that the Tb and intake wouldn't flow well enough to take advantage of more lift. That's  why the questions about other cams, or higher ratio rockers. This cam was in the bike before this work was done and I do like the feel of it. Though it wasn't really tuned in. Just a prebuilt map and then street tuned with wide band O2.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned going to the S&S 570 in this build using a .030 HG at 10:1 compression. I would think it would be right at home in this combo. it keeps you at the .570 lift and has the favorable exhaust timing your heads require. Kirby, John Sachs and a couple others have made nice power with it in many different size similar builds and posted them in the dyno section.

That's sound like a good option. What's the thought on this chart? It seems to support the idea that the intake would limit the benefit of lifting beyond .500 since that seems to be the limit of flow. 

[attach=0]

[Barrett]

harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=91480.msg1054714#msg1054714

The question about extra lift is answered here..

[1FSTRK]

With the flow sheet that you have, I'd pick a cam that has a bit longer exhaust duration than intake.

To be fair on the head flow, they were designed for use with the 510 cam style. With a lot of blow down in the cam. The exhaust port really only got a valve job and coating. If it was a different style cam then the head would have been ported differently.

This is really a cheap mild build. The only reason the question came to the board was it looks like with a touch more lift I could get better performance. Though it could be that the Tb and intake wouldn't flow well enough to take advantage of more lift. That's  why the questions about other cams, or higher ratio rockers. This cam was in the bike before this work was done and I do like the feel of it. Though it wasn't really tuned in. Just a prebuilt map and then street tuned with wide band O2.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned going to the S&S 570 in this build using a .030 HG at 10:1 compression. I would think it would be right at home in this combo. it keeps you at the .570 lift and has the favorable exhaust timing your heads require. Kirby, John Sachs and a couple others have made nice power with it in many different size similar builds and posted them in the dyno section.

That's sound like a good option. What's the thought on this chart? It seems to support the idea that the intake would limit the benefit of lifting beyond .500 since that seems to be the limit of flow. 

If you follow that thinking the flow on the chart really gets hit at about .300 lift and you do not want a .300 lift cam.

The real truth is the higher lift starts helping put more area under the curve right after the tdc lift number. It is true the intake and TB effect the flow numbers but how much will vary with port design as well as manifold design not to mention the fact a manifold and TB update later on could a little boost when you get bored with this set up.

[lt1-xjs]

Andrews did make the TW57 for the 99-06 chains under part 288157. They're still available.

They are not listed in the Andrews 2018 catalog or price list.

You have to call and ask, they have 7 on hand.

[PoorUB]

Andrews did make the TW57 for the 99-06 chains under part 288157. They're still available.

They are not listed in the Andrews 2018 catalog or price list.

You have to call and ask, they have 7 on hand.

That makes them tough to sell!

[DTTJGlide]

There's a new set listed on Ebay for a good price also.