Starter enlightenment

[btalley]

Hello All,
I just realized something that I was confused about.  I thought the 1st relay shown below was an aftermarket piece used with my lever style starter, but I guess not.
Both of these "relays" are used with the starter solenoid on the side of the primary case.  Is that correct?  The first one shown is a fx style relay and
the other is an FLH style relay?  Both are just used to get a small wire to large amp circuit?

Thanks for any info.

[fbn ent]

I think there is a bit of redundancy in your system.....both do the same job.

[Mule]

You need both of those relay's to install a lever operated starter engagement lever. The ice cube relay is energized by the lever, that energizes the big relay that energizes the starter.

[fbn ent]

Could someone please explain "lever operated" for me...or a pic maybe? I have seen the lever but not familiar with the wiring (obviously).

[btalley]

I wasn't real clear, but I know you need both to run the lever style, but if I was to swap the lever style out for a stock solenoid, I would use one or the other, correct?

[HarleyCharley]

What? It takes either but not both. I have an '81 low rider with the cube type relay and a '79 flh with the automotive type relay. These just energize the starter solenoid mounted in the inner primary housing.

charley

[fbn ent]

I wasn't real clear, but I know you need both to run the lever style, but if I was to swap the lever style out for a stock solenoid, I would use one or the other, correct?

Correct.

[76shuvlinoff]

It's early and I am still way short on caffeine. I have never had one of these levers. Are there heavy contacts in the lever mechanism going to the Starter like there are in the stock solenoid ? If so, why would you need a starter relay?   

More coffee.

[Mule]

No the contacts are not heavy, it makes contact at the end of the throw of the lever. just one small wire 16-18 gauge , supplies ground to the ice cube relay which energizes the large relay. The large relay is connected between the battery and the starter via battery cables.

[a_disalvo]

I replaced the #1 relay that mounts under the battery tray with the #2 ice cube relay mounted under the seat. There is enough room to ty-rap a spare under the seat. FWIW, Frank

[76shuvlinoff]

No the contacts are not heavy, it makes contact at the end of the throw of the lever. just one small wire 16-18 gauge , supplies ground to the ice cube relay which energizes the large relay. The large relay is connected between the battery and the starter via battery cables.

Ahhh.  Then I doubt it needs the smaller ice cube relay. The larger relay can be energized by the puny stock pushbutton wiring so going from the contacts on the lever to the coil on the larger relay should be enough. IMHO I wouldn't add anything extra in the circuit that could fail.

[crock]

I'm wondering what a leaver style starter is 

[72fl]

here ya go

[billbuilds]

     The description of this item on the J&P's website states, as Mule has said, that both style relays are required for installation.

[rigidthumper]

I've seen both used,when a small (lo current type) button on the handlebars is used to control the ice cube( medium current) relay, and the ice cube relay is used to control the Ford (big current) style relay, and the Ford relay is used to control the high current draw of the starter solenoid.

[a_disalvo]

I have replaced the "Ford" type relay with the ice cube relay years ago with no problems. You do not need both, they do the same job. Frank

[btalley]

Thanks all!

[Mule]

I have replaced the "Ford" type relay with the ice cube relay years ago with no problems. You do not need both, they do the same job. Frank

True but not in all situations! If you didn't use the Ice cube with the lever start you would fry the contacts at the lever in no time flat...

[76shuvlinoff]

I have replaced the "Ford" type relay with the ice cube relay years ago with no problems. You do not need both, they do the same job. Frank

True but not in all situations! If you didn't use the Ice cube with the lever start you would fry the contacts at the lever in no time flat...

That's the part I don't get. I see how it works but does the Ford relay coil pull that many amps that it requires another relay to operate it? The tiny wires on my puny start push button seem to handle it.  (but yes, over 24 years I have replaced that start button twice).

[HarleyCharley]

I think I figured out the reason for using both the cube and the automotive relay. Looks like they use the automotive relay to actually energize the starter (instead of using the solenoid) and using the cube relay to energize the automotive relay. That is if I understand this thing.

charley

[Mule]

I think I figured out the reason for using both the cube and the automotive relay. Looks like they use the automotive relay to actually energize the starter (instead of using the solenoid) and using the cube relay to energize the automotive relay. That is if I understand this thing.

Exactly!

[a_disalvo]

Lets see if there is any life left in this dead horse!!! The realys in the op do the same thing, but in different style bikes. They both energize the starter solenoid mounded on the inner primary, which in turn supplies power to the starter motor. Frank

[Mule]

with a lever start there is no solenoid mounted on the inner primary, the lever unit replaces that.