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1984 FXSB Rebuild (Partial) Log and Intro to me

Started by carioux2008, January 15, 2019, 10:42:40 AM

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carioux2008

Good Tuesday!
Picked up a 1984 Harley FXSB Low Rider from my Father's late friend. He was described to me as a real biker and not one to take any "Potty mouth"! Ive been trying to keep that spirit alive with this bike, and here is it's story.


as recieved

1984 Harley Davidson FXSB Low Rider
Sputhe 5-into-4 case (uses early 5-Speed FXR internals)
Forward Controls
Raised handlebars (height unknown)

This is a chain primary, belt final drive bike. Unlike the Sturgis models which had a belt driven primary and a different type of compensator which used rubber pucks rather than ramps. This rebuild is consisting of replacing the leaking oil seals in the transmission as well as sealing the primary and extending handlebar wiring, and repairs along the way as needed.

First thing we did was change out the handlebars to a more comfortable "ape-hanger-ish" style and brought her down to VA Beach where I work.

As she sits now

What a difference! the seat was comfortable, it was easier to shift, and it handled better because of better levearge. IMHO drag bars=drag racing, not street riding.

So, a few weeks and a few hundred miles passed...she leaks. Now some of you may say its only an issue when it stops leaking, then you know its out of oil. I cant live by that motto. I hate leaky pieces of equipment. The leak was coming from both ends of the trans as well as the clutch cable...so here comes the rebuild! I went to the good 'ol Harbor Fright (Freight) and bought their steel framed 1500lb motorcycle/atv lift.

Here is my Video Log (Vlog):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8y-g51kaYE&list=PLBBtpekUiW2btwFLvYzqscATV8YiPYOCr

Hope to hear some good input from you guys! Im loving this page so far. Its a work in progress!

Hossamania

Congratulations and welcome to the site! I love those old Shovel FXR's. Good looking piece you have there, the guys here will be able to help you keep it on the road for many years to come.
Good luck!
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Burnout

If you can see the battery it's not an FXR. The R is rubber mount.

That is a regular solid mount 4 speed frame.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

david lee

had my 1980 lowrider since 84 . genuine 17000 klms.cant see myself selling it even though its hardly ridden

Hossamania

Quote from: Burnout on January 15, 2019, 11:21:39 AM
If you can see the battery it's not an FXR. The R is rubber mount.

That is a regular solid mount 4 speed frame.

You're right, I misread the intro and did not look closely at the picture.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

billbuilds

     Welcome to the forum, It's much easier to pull the rear axle with the jack down and just a little weight on the wheel. Then just raise the jack and remove the wheel. That was a dead-blow hammer that you hit those axle threads with wasn't it? Not a good idea to whack steel threads with a steel hammer as you can bugger them up. How long did you ride it knowing that the rear rotor was cracked like it shows in your video? That could have been a real bummer had it locked up. Bill

carioux2008

Bill,
Thanks for the input. Just to ease your mind, it was a plastic/rubber type mallet and not a steel dead-blow hammer. I think I'll try installing it closer to the ground, I can see how being closer would help. The day I found the rotor cracked was the day I parked it and bought the lift. Unfortunately, I had to drive home from work (about 10 miles, 20 minutes) still, but I have a front brake for a reason. I'm having a really difficult time getting those pesky bolts out of the rotor though, that's why I don't have a video of it yet. I've used heat, broken 2 hex-key sockets, tried using impact hex-keys with my 1/2 in Milwaukee impact driver. Not even budging. I'm about to drill them.  :sick:

Really glad you watched the video! I'm improving as I go, there's 3 so far.

Corey

Burnout

get more serious with the heat to break the locktite loose.

hit the stripped ones with a hammer to close up the stripped allen, this will also help break the locktite.

Don't use an impact gun, Use a hand/hammer impact if you have one
If using a ratchet use an extension so you can hold an allen socket straight with the bolt and prevent stripping the allens
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Hogman

Quote from: Burnout on January 15, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
get more serious with the heat to break the locktite loose.

hit the stripped ones with a hammer to close up the stripped allen, this will also help break the locktite.

Don't use an impact gun, Use a hand/hammer impact if you have one
If using a ratchet use an extension so you can hold an allen socket straight with the bolt and prevent stripping the allens

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The ONLY Way to do This Job! Never Had one Failure doing it this Way.......
Hogman

carioux2008

Quote from: Hogman on January 16, 2019, 04:24:47 AM
Quote from: Burnout on January 15, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
get more serious with the heat to break the locktite loose.

hit the stripped ones with a hammer to close up the stripped allen, this will also help break the locktite.

Don't use an impact gun, Use a hand/hammer impact if you have one
If using a ratchet use an extension so you can hold an allen socket straight with the bolt and prevent stripping the allens

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The ONLY Way to do This Job! Never Had one Failure doing it this Way.......

I will try this! Thank you!!

On another note, I've been wondering why the inner primary bearing that I removed wouldn't match up to ANY bearing Harley put in these...come to find out, upon closer inspection, the previous "wrench" was "SOOOO TALENTED" that he left the original outer race installed and pressed in a smaller OD bearing in its place. So I'm here SMDH because this isnt the first WTF moment ive found on this bike. Overtightened nuts to the point it ruined threads on the trans-mount, wire tied scavenge line on the primary, and some other things that just make you cringe. It'll be right when im done though...and ideally leak free.

Ohio HD

Quote from: carioux2008 on January 16, 2019, 07:01:01 AM


...and ideally leak free.

A word of advice then, quit prying against the aluminum to get the primary cover or any other gasketed surface off. Take the derby cover off, gives a place to grip. Then use a soft face rubber mallet to tap round the primary cover to break it loose while pulling on it. If you must pry, buy some nylon / plastic pry levers used by body shops to work on interior panels of cars.

JW113

Congratulations and welcome! I think you'll find that owning an old bike, especially a Shovelhead, is a bit like archeology. As you dig into, discovering all of it's "history", and all the amazingly stupid "Potty mouth" that's been done, you'll wonder how it survived at all! Your job now: make it right!

Caliper bolts: As Burnout said, heat. As in oxy-acetyle, smallest tip, and get the bolt purt near red hot. Bolt will spin right out.

Oil Leaks: Welcome to the club, amigo! Pouring out is bad, but learn to ignore the dibble spots that will surely be found under it, even on a "perfect" specimen. The fact is, 'back in the day', oil leaks were something most riders didn't give much mind to, unlike today. In fact with Shovels, due to the chain oiler, by design you are guaranted that it will mark it's spot. I can be a fun process to minimize this as much as possible, though. For the primary housings, you might have the gasket surfaces planed smooth. Shovelhead only has 8 or 9 bolts on the outer primary, vs. 12 on an Evo. So the smoother and flatter, the better.

Trans oil leak: notorious out the mainshaft. Do a search on here, there's a lot of info how to fix that.

Keep us posted!

cheers,
JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

carioux2008

January 16, 2019, 09:47:46 AM #12 Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 09:53:34 AM by carioux2008
Quote from: Ohio HD on January 16, 2019, 07:38:46 AM
A word of advice then, quit prying against the aluminum to get the primary cover or any other gasketed surface off. Take the derby cover off, gives a place to grip. Then use a soft face rubber mallet to tap round the primary cover to break it loose while pulling on it. If you must pry, buy some nylon / plastic pry levers used by body shops to work on interior panels of cars. I didnt remove the derby cover because I didnt know if I was going to be able to remove the screw without stripping them...I got it though.
Thanks Ohio HD, I'll keep that in mind. I wasnt really prying too hard on the gasket surface, there is a section of the primary cover that is not a sealing surface near the solenoid, I did pry a little harder there but still not enough to flex the case too much. Ill try what you've said and invest in some of those palstic tools to prevent an issue from happenning in the future.

Ok, heres a neat status update....And stuff that wont likely be detailed in the next video.

Heres the inner race left installed in the inner primary. Took me 15 minutes to get it out! Why would somebody take the time to spec the wrong bearing? I'll be off to the bearing supply shop locally to pick up the CORRECT bearing.


Got it out by grinding down the race, then using a chisel to fracture it and walk it down.


This is what the inside of the tranny looked like when I pulled the cover. Guessing when that it was run low on fluid for too long (we found it low) and ruined the main bearing and all that black goo is bearing dust that got distributed throughout the transmission. I ran some ATF in there for the last 100 miles to help flush it, but now it should be good.


Heres the gearset...All Andrews gears!


Main bearing made some noise once I got the gearset out...so it got replaced. Pounded out 5th gear with a wood block. Removed snap ring. Pounded out the bearing as seen in the pic below...


Heated the case (after the wife left) in the oven at 250F while freezing the main bearing and 5th gear, main bearing dropped right in with a surprising thud as it touched the bottom. Waited a minute for the temp to normalize and put the snapring in and popped it back in the oven. 20 minutes later 5th gear dropped in just the same way. No press needed! Plan to do the inner primary bearing the same way.





Here is the brake rotor. This was the second hex key socket I broke. I have since gotten an impact set that hasnt broken...yet. You can see some of the cracks in the second pic.



But, I'm not in a huge rush to replace it anyway becuase the new rotor I ordered from J&P Cycles came with the machining flash still attached. There was also some AWFUL machining done in the chamfers to the bolts. It went back for an exchange.


So, one day I was riding home from work and she started sputtering, I knew she was low on fuel and i figured "Hey, what a great time to make sure the reserve works!" Well, when I flipped it over to "R" she sputtered out and died. Fuel still in the tank. So I shook it up, waited a few, started her and prayed I would make it to the next gas station .25 miles down the road...wound up coasting to the pump thankfully. Well, this is why...


If you look at one of the first pictures I posted with the taller handlebars, youll see the wires are prety stretched and sloppy looking...fixed that.




Im replacing all the fluid lines on the bike; that is oil, fuel and "vapor." Im also sealing the primary, so removing 3 lines that are not needed any longer. Im going to be using the "fuel injection" hose clamps as I think they look better and seal better. Ill be plugging the primary chain oiler with a 5/16-18 screw.



Hope you all enjoyed observing. More to come SOON!

Hossamania

No pictures posted. I was all psyched up to see them! Teasing me...
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

rigidthumper

One thing I remember from yesteryear was removing the oil feed line to the fitting, then rotating the oil feed fitting on the inner primary so it pointed down, and that became the vent for the now sealed primary.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Lowrider!

I had to drill through my rotor screws then using a propane torch to heat in the hole to release the red loctite they used. This was after I had snapped several heads off and generally stressed the remaining screws.

carioux2008

Quote from: Hossamania on January 16, 2019, 12:35:35 PM
No pictures posted. I was all psyched up to see them! Teasing me...
I'm not sure what's happening, they are hosted on imgbb.com. I posted them while at...*cough*... work ...*cough*... and they show up here at home.

Quote from: rigidthumper on January 16, 2019, 12:46:21 PM
One thing I remember from yesteryear was removing the oil feed line to the fitting, then rotating the oil feed fitting on the inner primary so it pointed down, and that became the vent for the now sealed primary.
The feed fitting on the primary was already pointed down for me, but it has been "molested" before I got her.  But, that will be my vent; I plugged the scavenge port and original vent to the crankcase.

Quote from: Lowrider! on January 16, 2019, 05:09:54 PM
I had to drill through my rotor screws then using a propane torch to heat in the hole to release the red loctite they used. This was after I had snapped several heads off and generally stressed the remaining screws.
I'm almost to the point of drilling...but that is a LAST resort for obvious reasons. I had the propane torch on the head for a good 5 minutes and tried with my hand-held impact and hammer as well as electric tools.  No luck yet.

JW113

Oxy-Acetylene. Propane will not get it hot enough. You can give MAPP gas a try, but nothing beats the blue tipped wrench.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

carioux2008

Quote from: JW113 on January 16, 2019, 07:14:24 PM
Oxy-Acetylene. Propane will not get it hot enough. You can give MAPP gas a try, but nothing beats the blue tipped wrench.

-JW
JW,
Propane is not working...your correct. Im about to get a MAP gas tank for my torch and hope it helps. I need to find a person with a real torch, as i dont have one.


Got the race out...and went to the bearing supply shop and picked up a R16-2RS deep groove ball bearing...perfect fit, go figure.


Installed it and popped in the seal. Wound up having to peen the inside of the housing to tighten up the fit as it was loose. That combined with some red loctite should hold it in place just fine.



Hopefully my fuel/oil lines get in today so I can mock things up and get my new lines cut. Got the oil supply to the primary blocked off using a 5/16-18 short bolt and some pipe dope. Ill use this for now until I find a decent looking cap screw.


All roads lead to Daytona for this old girl!!

Hossamania

Quote from: Hossamania on January 16, 2019, 12:35:35 PM
No pictures posted. I was all psyched up to see them! Teasing me...

They have now loaded.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

JW113

Just passing on some hard learned advice...

In general, if there is any way possible to avoid pounding on things like bearings and races to remove/install them, do it. Especially with aluminum, as it easily deforms. And with aluminum, always good to warm it up to 200-ish degrees before doing either remove or install. Rather than a hammer, a better "tool" is a piece of 1/2" to 3/4" all thread rod, a bunch of heavy flat washers, and various diameters of pipe or even large sockets. This is a "poor man's press". This way you can force the bearings in and out without the shock of pounding with a hammer. As you found out, you're new bearing is now loose in the bore. Live and learn.   :doh:

FWIW!

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

carioux2008

Quote from: JW113 on January 17, 2019, 10:38:43 AM
Just passing on some hard learned advice...

In general, if there is any way possible to avoid pounding on things like bearings and races to remove/install them, do it. Especially with aluminum, as it easily deforms. And with aluminum, always good to warm it up to 200-ish degrees before doing either remove or install. Rather than a hammer, a better "tool" is a piece of 1/2" to 3/4" all thread rod, a bunch of heavy flat washers, and various diameters of pipe or even large sockets. This is a "poor man's press". This way you can force the bearings in and out without the shock of pounding with a hammer. As you found out, you're new bearing is now loose in the bore. Live and learn.   :doh:

FWIW!

-JW

JW,
As always, I apreciate the advice. Unfortunately a press wasnt an option for the inner primary because a previous wrench (unknown to me) left the old race in place and found a different bearing to fit in its place. When the bearing was removed, the old race was left in the case with no lip for anything to catch on. I had to grind the inside of the "sleeve race" and then chip part of it away so it would come out. When I reinstalled the new bearing the first time, i thought it went in fine after heating the case and freezing the bearing. After a few minutes I moved the primary around and noticed the bearing had slipped and was able to move it by hand at room temp. Im sure theres a lot of things im doing that arent ideal, but im always looking to improve, and any advice is very valuable to me.

That being said, I like your idea of the "poor-man's press." I will definetly keep that in my "toolbelt" for the next time I have a press fit bearing or bushing to replace.

JW113

OK, dig it. On that note, here's another little tip for a case like that.

If you have, or have access, to a MIG welder, weld a bead around the face of the bearing surface of the race. The race will then (most likely) fall right out. The weld bead shrinks the race enough to make is a slip or slightly loose fit into the bore.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ohio HD


JW113

2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber