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Loss of voltage to O2 sensors

Started by Stingray, October 14, 2019, 06:29:57 PM

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Stingray

I'm having trouble with my 15RG. Been trouble shooting this issue for a few weeks now. I have PV with TT and the bike started to have the cylinders shutting down. Fast forward I removed the TT and was reading just the voltage to the stock O2's when the engine is cold and up to about 160 the voltage to the O2's is 4.98v and 5.0v  As the engine gets warmer the voltage drops down to 1.5v and less than 1v. Bike runs but lack of power and stumbles. I removed the PV and reinstalled my old FP3, set up the gauges same thing.
I did and connector pull on the ECM and looked for chaffed wires, checked the 7.5amp fuse all looks good.
I'm also getting a check engine light with P0134 front and P0154 rear.  I don't think it's the O2 sensors because with the TT and the wide band sensors same performance issue and before I removed the TT the bike would not run under a load, it would only idle.
I'm thinking that the ECM is corrupt or no good anymore. Is there a way to test a ECM or do a HARD reset? It's just odd that the voltage is there when the engine is cold. I also replaced the engine temp sensor just in case but no change in the problem.

Any Idea's???????

Thanks

FXDBI

Quote from: Stingray on October 14, 2019, 06:29:57 PM
I'm having trouble with my 15RG. Been trouble shooting this issue for a few weeks now. I have PV with TT and the bike started to have the cylinders shutting down. Fast forward I removed the TT and was reading just the voltage to the stock O2's when the engine is cold and up to about 160 the voltage to the O2's is 4.98v and 5.0v  As the engine gets warmer the voltage drops down to 1.5v and less than 1v. Bike runs but lack of power and stumbles. I removed the PV and reinstalled my old FP3, set up the gauges same thing.
I did and connector pull on the ECM and looked for chaffed wires, checked the 7.5amp fuse all looks good.
I'm also getting a check engine light with P0134 front and P0154 rear.  I don't think it's the O2 sensors because with the TT and the wide band sensors same performance issue and before I removed the TT the bike would not run under a load, it would only idle.
I'm thinking that the ECM is corrupt or no good anymore. Is there a way to test a ECM or do a HARD reset? It's just odd that the voltage is there when the engine is cold. I also replaced the engine temp sensor just in case but no change in the problem.

Any Idea's???????

Thanks

Load the original map from before u did the tuning or take it in and get it professionally tuned. Sounds like you have the tune all out of wack.  Bob

Stingray

I tried the original map that DJ sent with the engine upgrades, same issue with cylinders shutting down with the PV/TT setup.  I installed the stock map and just using the PV to read the stock O2 voltage, same issue with them losing voltage as the bike warms up.

FXDBI

Quote from: Stingray on October 14, 2019, 07:51:52 PM
I tried the original map that DJ sent with the engine upgrades, same issue with cylinders shutting down with the PV/TT setup.  I installed the stock map and just using the PV to read the stock O2 voltage, same issue with them losing voltage as the bike warms up.

Stock 02 sensors need to come up to temperature before they work you can see it if you log with the powervision.  If your just using a map from Dynojet sounds like its a mile off. Take it to a tuner and get it tuned. Sounds like its a little beyond your technical abilities at this time.   Bob

Coyote

How are you measuring this voltage?

There is a difference between measuring the power voltage to the O2 sensor and the voltage produced by the O2 sensor. I'm guessing you are reporting the latter.

Do you have a PV log of the sensor from startup to warm?

Bratton

Is it even possible to actually measure this voltage?

rigidthumper

There is heater voltage sent to pre-warm the HO2 (Heated Oxygen) sensors, supplied by the system power fuse (HO2 pin1), and grounds for the sensors controlled by the ecm (HO2 pin2). That 12V voltage should always be there, and the ECM uses the grounds to turn on/off as necessary. This helps the sensors come on line faster, to pass EPA testing.
There is also the 5V sensor ground, (HO2 pin4) provided by the ECM, so each sensor has the same ground reference as the ECM.
The O2 signal comes from HO2 pin3, and that is what you see as O2 voltage reported in the data stream.

Typically, cold startup has the O2 sensors near max (~5V), and as the exhaust heats up, that voltages reduces to normal switching voltage if the tune is close and you use closed loop. Looks like this:
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

rigidthumper

A couple of minutes and degrees later, it looks like this: You can see it went from almost 5 volts to just under 0.9V, and will start switching if in closed loop and other parameters are met.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

FSG


Stingray

Ok, sorry for the delay in responding just got home. Let me explain how this all started.  This is from a couple weeks ago.
Also I was not getting any check engine lights or codes with the PV/TT installed.

( Since my new build, I have been dealing with a poor idle condition. I setup the gauge panel on the PV and at first the rear cylinder would shut off the injector, EITMS was off. A twist of the throttle and the injector would turn on. Did some data logging sent in to DJ, they made some adjustments, problem went away. A week later the front cylinder was doing the same thing. Sent in more data logs, was provided 2 tunes to try. Loaded up the first one,15min into my ride I was at a traffic light,engine temp climbed up to 295 outside temp was 81, not normal before this last tune loaded. Got under way engine temp was 255 and cruising at 2300 rpm bike started to buck and wasn't smooth. Stopped to load the second tune, now it would not even want to idle, front cylinder still shutting down. A twist of the throttle again, it would turn back on. Loaded 2 other tunes same thing. Made it home.
So I went to trouble shooting after checking all connections,even the little screws on the TT, swapped plugs around different plug wires, compression test all checked out ok. Swapped the injectors around and problem now is in the rear. Cool no problem bought new injectors from HD (5.3 red band) same problem!!!! Also a slow increase in throttle input ( bike is on the lift) and both cylinders would go lean 17.8 is the limit on the gauge. WTF is going on? Again a quick throttle twist and both cylinders would turn on. Decided to go for a ride, now it would not run under load, both cylinders lean out to 17.8
Called DJ, asked for a NON TT tune, put in the stock O2 sensors, engine runs, and went for a quick ride, all seems ok,
So what are the chances I have 2 bad O2 sensors, or is it the Target Tune module??
I've emailed DJ waiting for a reply. Maybe they can test the components??

Sorry for the rant, but wanted to give you the whole story.
Build info is
107, 110 stage II heads, Tman 625 cams, HPI TB, 5.3 injectors, V&H 2-1 Propipe )


I sent in the TT module and O2 sensors, since then, last Sunday was the first day that I could actually ride the bike and the trouble began with just the PV only. I've asked DJ to return my module and O2's.

I have loaded the base map that DJ provided and tried to start over when the PV/TT was installed but the bike would only idle, any load on it and it would just stumble and not want to go. So that is why I think it's more than a map issue.

Unless I just happen to have 2 bad WB sensors and 2 bad NB sensors????
Also when the voltage drops below 1v that's when it stumbles, using the NB sensors and the PV.
I haven't tried to ride it yet using the FP3, I only installed that just last night.

As for competent tuners in my area? The choices are slim to none. The one place I wanted to use, he has changed to a different software TTS and TM he said he didn't want to touch anything with PV. Another place I've heard horror stories and his place is a mess to look at. Not sure if my local dealer would know anything about PV? Haven't asked yet.
I'm in the West Palm Beach FL. area

MikeL

Give this guy a call
http://www.blaiscycle.com/
He's an Hr south of WPB

                                                                                                     MIKE

Stingray

Thanks, I'll have to wait until the TT gets back in my hands to reinstall it. Then get it down to them.

Stingray

Quote from: Stingray on October 14, 2019, 06:29:57 PM
I'm having trouble with my 15RG. Been trouble shooting this issue for a few weeks now. I have PV with TT and the bike started to have the cylinders shutting down. Fast forward I removed the TT and was reading just the voltage to the stock O2's when the engine is cold and up to about 160 the voltage to the O2's is 4.98v and 5.0v  As the engine gets warmer the voltage drops down to 1.5v and less than 1v. Bike runs but lack of power and stumbles. I removed the PV and reinstalled my old FP3, set up the gauges same thing.
I did and connector pull on the ECM and looked for chaffed wires, checked the 7.5amp fuse all looks good.
I'm also getting a check engine light with P0134 front and P0154 rear.  I don't think it's the O2 sensors because with the TT and the wide band sensors same performance issue and before I removed the TT the bike would not run under a load, it would only idle.
I'm thinking that the ECM is corrupt or no good anymore. Is there a way to test a ECM or do a HARD reset? It's just odd that the voltage is there when the engine is cold. I also replaced the engine temp sensor just in case but no change in the problem.

Any Idea's???????

Thanks


I wasn't convinced that the tune was so out wack that the bike wouldn't run, because it did run pretty good at first.
I took to the dealer and let them scan the ECM, nothing showed up????  I told the tech what I was experiencing and asked him to flash the ECM back to stock. Since then I have reinstalled the PV/TT  with the base map from DJ and have done a Auto-tune. So far it has been running great!

The only thing I can think is something was corrupt in the ECM. When I bought this bike it had 1800 miles on it with
some slip on mufflers and H/F Air cleaner.  It may have had a stage 1 dealer down load that I was not aware of. If so, once the V&H FP3 and a cam change I had on there first pulled what it thought was a stock map in there. Then later put that stock map back in and installed the PV/TT which would have pulled the same map and stored it. Not sure how the PV looks at the stock map once the ECM is flashed with a modified map for the upgrades I did.
I'm gonna run it for a bit before a dyno tune to be sure everything is ok. I would hate to spend money for a dyno tune to be told something is still wrong with the bike.