Stock late model CVO heads

[ndmp40]

Understand. That could be a tall order but not impossible.

Might consider the Mahle 113 piston from Suburban Speed. 9 cc dome. Use the existing 110 cylinders.

Leaving coin on the table for quality head work.

Just another option.

Don't know the working budget.

Send your heads to Rick Ward, his port work with the stock valves is a real power maker.  As for the 110 heads having too big ports, my mild SE build 113 makes 130 square through the MCR ports, which are much larger and have even bigger valves.

Rick made me a set of 110 heads with bigger ports than the MCR heads, and these are going on a mild 117.

The typical TC motor is intake restricted, and people leave power and TQ on the table by making the heads and intake too small.

Give Rick Ward a call, his portwork is exceptional and big power makers.

[1FSTRK]

Understand. That could be a tall order but not impossible.

Might consider the Mahle 113 piston from Suburban Speed. 9 cc dome. Use the existing 110 cylinders.

Leaving coin on the table for quality head work.

Just another option.

Don't know the working budget.

Send your heads to Rick Ward, his port work with the stock valves is a real power maker.  As for the 110 heads having too big ports, my mild SE build 113 makes 130 square through the MCR ports, which are much larger and have even bigger valves.

Rick made me a set of 110 heads with bigger ports than the MCR heads, and these are going on a mild 117.

The typical TC motor is intake restricted, and people leave power and TQ on the table by making the heads and intake too small.

Give Rick Ward a call, his portwork is exceptional and big power makers.

Were these 130/130 heads ported by Rick?
What do your heads flow?

[Hilly13]

I posted the sheets I had seen, can't see any others?

[98fxstc]

I have flow sheets for mine showing before and after porting but not sure it is appropriate to post them without Head Porter's ok.
These guys have an opportunity to post them here but then the internet experts jump all over them.

[Hilly13]

Yeah I guess you are right 98, I'm just trying to get an idea of the norm, one stock sheet does not make a benchmark, average of 10 might though.

[ndmp40]

Understand. That could be a tall order but not impossible.

Might consider the Mahle 113 piston from Suburban Speed. 9 cc dome. Use the existing 110 cylinders.

Leaving coin on the table for quality head work.

Just another option.

Don't know the working budget.

Send your heads to Rick Ward, his port work with the stock valves is a real power maker.  As for the 110 heads having too big ports, my mild SE build 113 makes 130 square through the MCR ports, which are much larger and have even bigger valves.

Rick made me a set of 110 heads with bigger ports than the MCR heads, and these are going on a mild 117.

The typical TC motor is intake restricted, and people leave power and TQ on the table by making the heads and intake too small.

Give Rick Ward a call, his portwork is exceptional and big power makers.

Were these 130/130 heads ported by Rick?
What do your heads flow?

SE 113 kit with SE MVA heads out of the box. 
I dont have flow sheets handy, but at one time they were listed in the SE catalog.

[1FSTRK]

Thanks, I have seen those numbers for MVA heads. For this project he is sticking with the stock CVO castings.

[1FSTRK]

I have flow sheets for mine showing before and after porting but not sure it is appropriate to post them without Head Porter's ok.
These guys have an opportunity to post them here but then the internet experts jump all over them.

Yeah I guess you are right 98, I'm just trying to get an idea of the norm, one stock sheet does not make a benchmark, average of 10 might though.

I am thinking the average of three tests from the tree guys that already posted here would be great. They have the numbers because they questioned the numbers you posted instantly. I'd bet they are all within 1-2 percent and we are not talking about anything top secret, or even what they have when they are done porting, just the base number from the stock casting.

[wfolarry]

From the SE catalog

[1FSTRK]

From the SE catalog

Thank you Larry, unfortunately that lists nothing for the stock CNO head.

[1FSTRK]

From the SE catalog

Thank you Larry, unfortunately that lists nothing for the stock CNO CVO head flow.

[Hilly13]

1FSTRK help me understand, the comparison you make between the 110 and 117 with stock heads does show in favour of the 117 but if the 110 has its compression ratio raised to match the 117 it's only single digit gains in TQ and HP, I would of put that down to 7 cubic inches of displacement, what am I not understanding here? Go easy I'm a bit slow.

[1FSTRK]

1FSTRK help me understand, the comparison you make between the 110 and 117 with stock heads does show in favour of the 117 but if the 110 has its compression ratio raised to match the 117 it's only single digit gains in TQ and HP, I would of put that down to 7 cubic inches of displacement, what am I not understanding here? Go easy I'm a bit slow.

I have always found it best to compare ccp or corrected compression. The stock CVO cranks 210-215, a 117" with a .030 gasket and zero deck running a 259 cam would have a calculated ccp under 200. Most of the posted 117" stock CVO head examples I have found have corrected or ccp numbers less than or equal to stock CVO or stage two CVO engines. For this reason I see the comparisons as apples to apples. As far as HP numbers I always work in HP/CI or TQ/CI for power and HP/CFM for comparing efficiency.

[yobtaf103]

For a little light reading on every 117" bolt on combo etc , go over and take a look at the CVO forum!

[1FSTRK]

For a little light reading on every 117" bolt on combo etc , go over and take a look at the CVO forum!

I am not a member of other forums, I have not found one that offers near the information of HTT.
Is there specific data missing here that I should be looking for on other sites?

[98fxstc]

I am not a member of other forums, I have not found one that offers near the information of HTT.
Is there specific data missing here that I should be looking for on other sites?

I have a CVO Fatbob
I joined over there quite a few years back
They have been talking about 110's and upgrades over there for yonks with a fair bit of discussion about the 110 heads.
There are a few threads here about the 110 heads but the talk about 110 engines  and upgrades has really only stepped up since the advent of the new liners.

[1FSTRK]

I am not a member of other forums, I have not found one that offers near the information of HTT.
Is there specific data missing here that I should be looking for on other sites?

I have a CVO Fatbob
I joined over there quite a few years back
They have been talking about 110's and upgrades over there for yonks with a fair bit of discussion about the 110 heads.
There are a few threads here about the 110 heads but the talk about 110 engines  and upgrades has really only stepped up since the advent of the new liners.

I spent some time  searching there today and I see a lot of talk and opinion, it runs great, love it, posting but little data. I may be looking in the wrong places but after reading a 5 minute paragraph that started with " I am not going to go down the whole dyno graph road because I know where that leads" and ending with him typing his detailed description of the dyno graph, rather than posting the picture for all to see I decided to call the game.

If  you have a specific thread or spot that has real info in mind I would appreciate any help in locating it. I believe in data and the more the better so I am open to all sources and discussions when it comes to accurate information.
Thanks

[98fxstc]

The CVO guys are not into tech stuff and specifics so there are are very few tech type threads.
They get ideas from the forum and then go off to see their local engine builder.
Their is some discussion about different types of upgrade and their merits.
You will find many before and after dynos, some with head porting, some with stock heads but they are scattered.
Not a concentrated source of data for you to examine but there is a fair bit there.

[yobtaf103]

I am not a member of other forums, I have not found one that offers near the information of HTT.
Is there specific data missing here that I should be looking for on other sites?

I have a CVO Fatbob
I joined over there quite a few years back
They have been talking about 110's and upgrades over there for yonks with a fair bit of discussion about the 110 heads.
There are a few threads here about the 110 heads but the talk about 110 engines  and upgrades has really only stepped up since the advent of the new liners.

I spent some time  searching there today and I see a lot of talk and opinion, it runs great, love it, posting but little data. I may be looking in the wrong places but after reading a 5 minute paragraph that started with " I am not going to go down the whole dyno graph road because I know where that leads" and ending with him typing his detailed description of the dyno graph, rather than posting the picture for all to see I decided to call the game.

If  you have a specific thread or spot that has real info in mind I would appreciate any help in locating it. I believe in data and the more the better so I am open to all sources and discussions when it comes to accurate information.
Thanks

Yep thats forums was a 80 plus page thread on the 117"  thats fallen back with countless new threads started on the same/similar subject !

Data/ accurate info to a degree is in the eye of the beholder, went thro a lot of searching info before i went with my 117 upgrade, posted ib dyno here & that's all i can vouch for tbh
("imbroke's" nice chart, never seen that repeated tho he did use the hi comp SE mahle not the kit flat tops)

Is your friends cvo bone stock now, budget limit, riding style?

Zippers bolt-in 587/ Fat cat, 101.76/114.78 chart on their vendor page HTT

[KB]

I have yet to see a stock 110 head break 270cfm@28"
Most CNC ported mva heads go high 280 to low 290's@28"
Always worth it to do a valve job and grind the valves
The jinked up factory valve job wreaks havoc on the exhaust seat and the exhaust valve

Is it possible to work backwards?

I have an 2008 110 SE with a PV tune that tells me a VE and from the table I can calculate the RPM x the VE percentage = CI of air. Converted back would be CFM. It may not be as accurate but it is real world. From that I've worked out at 5500 rpm and .88 VE with 100% throttle that the head must be flowing 307CFM. Or does it not work that way?

[KB]

I have yet to see a stock 110 head break 270cfm@28"
Most CNC ported mva heads go high 280 to low 290's@28"
Always worth it to do a valve job and grind the valves
The jinked up factory valve job wreaks havoc on the exhaust seat and the exhaust valve

Is it possible to work backwards?

I have an 2008 110 SE with a PV tune that tells me a VE and from the table I can calculate the RPM x the VE percentage = CI of air. Converted back would be CFM. It may not be as accurate but it is real world. From that I've worked out at 5500 rpm and .88 VE with 100% throttle that the head must be flowing 307CFM. Or does it not work that way?

never mind I found a calculator that works it out. Have to correct for air density and other factors. DOH.

[1FSTRK]

I have yet to see a stock 110 head break 270cfm@28"
Most CNC ported mva heads go high 280 to low 290's@28"
Always worth it to do a valve job and grind the valves
The jinked up factory valve job wreaks havoc on the exhaust seat and the exhaust valve

Is it possible to work backwards?

I have an 2008 110 SE with a PV tune that tells me a VE and from the table I can calculate the RPM x the VE percentage = CI of air. Converted back would be CFM. It may not be as accurate but it is real world. From that I've worked out at 5500 rpm and .88 VE with 100% throttle that the head must be flowing 307CFM. Or does it not work that way?

never mind I found a calculator that works it out. Have to correct for air density and other factors. DOH.

You can't calculate actual air flow from a VE table in the EFI map. Those numbers are random based and it is my understanding they top out at 127 because of the computer limits at the time they were developed,

[wfolarry]

The reality is unless you flow the heads that are on the bike the rest is just a guessing game.

[1FSTRK]

At this point we really don't care what CFM the stock CVO head flows. We can simply go on without the numbers and that saves all the experts from arguing over what number is correct. We know there is a range on stock production parts and I will just use the value STOCK1 to represent that flow.