Have a solder question...

[Flhfxd]

Heat the wires and let the solder run through or heat the solder and let drip it over the joint? Seen it done these 2 ways but feel like the wires would be very over heated by the first method of heating the joint up enough to melt the solder through....does that make sense?
Thx, Flhfxd.

[Ohio HD]

You heat the wires, then when they're heated, you touch the solder to the joint and iron and let it melt and flow. The entire time keeping the iron on the joint until it's flowed.

[Moparnut72]

The other is called a cold solder joint.  Not very strong and may not even conduct electricity. My dad was an electronic scientist who taught me how to solder at a very young age.
kk

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Also, use the right size solder for electronics. .032 or even .020 will make your life easier. The fat solder is for pipe joints, not wiring

[Hossamania]

Correct on all the answers here.
My wife has see to solder circuit boards, that girl has mad skills! She made it look so easy, taught me how to solder properly.

[fbn ent]

A "cold solder" joint isn't a good connection but it is probably better than the one I discovered my buddy doing.....He twisted the wires together and shrink tubed the joint. I asked him if he always did it that way and he said "Yeah, why?".  No wonder he was having trouble with his electronics. Just lucky it was an old Evo Softail.

[Boe Cole]

I've always fluxed the wires and then put a drop of solder on the iron and held the iron on the wires until the solder flowed.  If i'm reading this right, I'm wrong.....

[truck]

I've always fluxed the wires and then put a drop of solder on the iron and held the iron on the wires until the solder flowed.  If i'm reading this right, I'm wrong.....

There are a few good ways to solder and yours is one of them. The drop of solder forms a bridge to the wire and transfers heat faster.

[kd]

 

[Hossamania]

A "cold solder" joint isn't a good connection but it is probably better than the one I discovered my buddy doing.....He twisted the wires together and shrink tubed the joint. I asked him if he always did it that way and he said "Yeah, why?".  No wonder he was having trouble with his electronics. Just lucky it was an old Evo Softail.

I'm surprised any of those connections lasted more than a few hard rides. At least put some wire nuts on them before shrink tubing them. Not ideal, but better than just twisting them together and hoping.

[Pop-pop2]

Make sure to use rosin core solder, if not using a separate flux for electrical joints.

[JW113]

What are you making? Joining wires with solder isn't always the best way to join them.

-JW

[Norton Commando]

Make sure to use rosin core solder, if not using a separate flux for electrical joints.

Indeed, rosin-core only for electrical components; acid-core should not be used.

Jason

[speedzter]

Heat the wires and let the solder run through or heat the solder and let drip it over the joint?

The trouble with that method is all the flux in the solder is released before being able to spread into the wire joint.
Your method is fine for reflowing an existing solder joint, or when the joint is flooded with liquid flux first.

[Flhfxd]

What are you making? Joining wires with solder isn't always the best way to join them.

-JW

Just removed an ignition / immobilizer alarm system from my bike. It was wired in pretty deep. It was beginning to fail and could have easily left me stranded so I'm rejoining a bunch of wires where the alarm system was spliced in.

[98roadking]

I use to work at an electronics company and they taught the ladies to heat the wire first, then add the solder as Hoss said. If the wires weren't hot the solder didn't make a solid connection and vibration would be an issue. Of course vibration isn't a problem on Harleys so the cold method might be o.k. 

[kd]

My method ...... I ALWAYS scrape the wire surface (to be soldered) with my pocket knife to bring up a fresh non oxidized surface. Next I attach the wires and add a "tiny" touch of soldering paste. A little goes a long way.  I apply heat from the preheated iron to melt the paste and ensure it spreads evenly into the strands. Following that I unroll a segment of fine solder wire that will be sufficient to complete the job in one heat cycle and when the iron is good and hot I heat the joint until it starts to give of fumes. (I apply the iron to a point away from the wire insulation and add a small blob of solder to the iron at the contact point with the wire.)  When the wire reaches the temperature required to melt the solder into the strands it will disappear internally into the joint. .......  Done.  I may add a little more solder to ensure the length of the joint is silver.  One thing to remember is that solder has the best strength in thin applications. In engineering, a thick layer of solder is called a "Potty mouth" joint for a good reason. Thick layers of solder for some reason are subject to cracking and failing. Also, applying to much heat can anneal the copper strands and cause them to soften and therefore become delicate in relation to handling and vibration and can break easily.  If the wire gets too hot a black oxide also forms that eventually works it way up into / under the insulation further reducing the life of the conductor. The final act is to seal the connection with tape or a shrink tube far enough past the work area to ensure a seal from the atmosphere and other contaminates.  In 20 years working on a fleet of trucks dedicated to salting and sanding in winter operations this method never failed me.

[1workinman]

My method ...... I ALWAYS scrape the wire surface (to be soldered) with my pocket knife to bring up a fresh non oxidized surface. Next I attach the wires and add a "tiny" touch of soldering paste. A little goes a long way.  I apply heat from the preheated iron to melt the paste and ensure it spreads evenly into the strands. Following that I unroll a segment of fine solder wire that will be sufficient to complete the job in one heat cycle and when the iron is good and hot I heat the joint until it starts to give of fumes. (I apply the iron to a point away from the wire insulation and add a small blob of solder to the iron at the contact point with the wire.)  When the wire reaches the temperature required to melt the solder into the strands it will disappear internally into the joint. .......  Done.  I may add a little more solder to ensure the length of the joint is silver.  One thing to remember is that solder has the best strength in thin applications. In engineering, a thick layer of solder is called a "Potty mouth" joint for a good reason. Thick layers of solder for some reason are subject to cracking and failing. Also, applying to much heat can anneal the copper strands and cause them to soften and therefore become delicate in relation to handling and vibration and can break easily.  If the wire gets too hot a black oxide also forms that eventually works it way up into / under the insulation further reducing the life of the conductor. The final act is to seal the connection with tape or a shrink tube far enough past the work area to ensure a seal from the atmosphere and other contaminates.  In 20 years working on a fleet of trucks dedicated to salting and sanding in winter operations this method never failed me.

KD I soldered a lot of wires and never had a problem but that's good information thanks I appreciate it

[r0de_runr]

Don't forget  --  do not solder power wires such as to a new 500 watt amp.  Use mechanical connectors.

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

Get some 60/40 RCS and Tin the Tip. hold it on the wires, drag the solder from the iron across the bridge. done. Don't use wire from Autozone or places like that.

14ga and smaller use TXL Insulated and for 12 and larger use GXL (That is what's used in all transportation).

[Maddo Snr]

Not ideal, but better than just twisting them together and hoping.

Not really Hoss. When two wires are properly clinched-up hard before soldering, what happens is that there is NO solder between the wires, only eutectic alloy (which is MUCH stronger than solder OR annealed copper.

When you look under a microscope at the cross section of a 'tinned' conductor there is a bridging layer between the copper and the solder, this is a much stronger alloy than either the alloy of solder OR the elemental copper.

Solder used to 'glue' widely-spaced conductors together doesn't have either strength or good conductivity. When properly pre-clinched, solder joints are both mechanically stronger and of superior conductivity than the actual base wire.

The ONLY situation where mechanical jointing is superior is under vibration. Vibrating copper conductors will work-harden and snap at the end of the solder wick

[kd]

    That's the part about the ""Potty mouth" joint" engineer term I didn't / couldn't properly describe.

[Hossamania]

Not ideal, but better than just twisting them together and hoping.

Not really Hoss. When two wires are properly clinched-up hard before soldering, what happens is that there is NO solder between the wires, only eutectic alloy (which is MUCH stronger than solder OR annealed copper.

When you look under a microscope at the cross section of a 'tinned' conductor there is a bridging layer between the copper and the solder, this is a much stronger alloy than either the alloy of solder OR the elemental copper.

Solder used to 'glue' widely-spaced conductors together doesn't have either strength or good conductivity. When properly pre-clinched, solder joints are both mechanically stronger and of superior conductivity than the actual base wire.

The ONLY situation where mechanical jointing is superior is under vibration. Vibrating copper conductors will work-harden and snap at the end of the solder wick

My comment was based on the idea that the wires were being twisted together, no solder, and just shrink tubed. I suggested at least a wire nut to hold them together, a better connection than just the tubing.
Of course your methodology is much better for proper connections, my comment was not directed to those.

[Templar2]

What about Butt connectors with solder?
"Heat shrink, solder and crimp butt connectors, or crimp connectors, are terminals that are used to mate, connect, or terminate a single wire. The solder and crimp capability of these connectors provide an extra secure connection and facilitates in resisting corrosion and other harsh environment debris."

I have been using these lately and they seem to create a really good and tight connection.

[Billy]

I think every wire on our HDs are terminated with a crimped on pin or pin socket. Solder for me is the second option.

[Maddo Snr]

I think every wire on our HDs are terminated with a crimped on pin or pin socket. Solder for me is the second option.

Solder isn't an option on HDs unless the wire is floating (i.e. inside extended handlebar looms). Not many places on a HD don't vibrate...

[fbn ent]

Well, I haven't had any issues with soldered joints on my shovel in all these years 'n miles ..... It vibrates a bit 

[Maddo Snr]

Well, I haven't had any issues with soldered joints on my shovel in all these years 'n miles ..... It vibrates a bit 

Touché 

[FSG]

In '73 I did a HRHS (High Reliability Hand Soldering) Course with NASA, 21 of us started, 7 of us finished/passed the course.

That training has done me well over the years, these days the eyesight is letting me down as it does all of us.   

[Billy]

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a properly soldered joint, just that in most cases for me it is quicker and easier to crimp a connection.

[Hossamania]

I think every wire on our HDs are terminated with a crimped on pin or pin socket. Solder for me is the second option.

Solder isn't an option on HDs unless the wire is floating (i.e. inside extended handlebar looms). Not many places on a HD don't vibrate...

I've done both kinds of connections for handlebar extensions, soldering and the pin connectors with Nams extending kits. The problem with the pin connectors is that it's hard to stagger the connectors to fish thru the bars. I also crimp the pin connectors slightly to prevent them from pulling apart.
In all the sets I've done over the years (I keep telling myself no more), I've not had a failure yet. I must be doing something right with the solder. As I said, my wife has mad soldering skills and taught me.

[ecir50]

current controls are soldered, a proper solder joint is no problem on our bikes but do agree a crimped connection is better. Currently prepping a controls swap on my bike right now going to go with a crimped connection this time. Using the tails off some .093 pin connectors. The finish is not much larger than the wire with heat shrink.

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Any of you guys ever see the type of connection on the bottom wire? It looks to be a factory mechanical crimp wire to wire. Has like a weave knurled finish on the crimped side.   

[kd]

I appears to be a hot compression joint.  Copper gets real malleable when heated and it can be blended under pressure.

[ecir50]

whatever it is would love to have the tool that does it .

[lonewolf]

When i do it I use "western union" splice. No solder but once heat shrunk you can't pull it apart. Keeps the size down.

[kd]

The western union can have a sweated on tinning of solder and it doesn't make it any fatter.   Best of all for butt joints. 👍🏻

[Phu Cat]

Remember Samual?  He was steadfast against solder connections when a crimp connection serves the mechanic better.  For a variety of reasons.

PC