Yet another oil pump change

[joe_lyons]

Yet another



 

[FSG]

TT466 UPDATED OIL PUMP FOR MILWAUKEE-EIGHT ENGINES

[hd06]

  That's great before too long these m8 will be bulletproof.

[FloridaJim5]

Can this pump be used on all M8's or just 2020? 

[BigT]

All M8s

[scotman623]

I'm just having the SS pump installed on my 19 CVO RG when I have the 128 big bore kit installed next week... Finally H-D is building a better pump to start helping with all the sumping issues, hopefully it works..

[Jaycee1964]

I guess I have been blessed.  2018 RGU with over 15K on it in 11 months.  Never had any issues with sumping..  Now I went and Jink'd myself.

[HV]

So......we sold a 2019 Trike.....less then 1000 KM on it this week....yup.....you guessed it...Buddy pulls over...low on power.....heating up bad.....we pick it up....oil smells like its burnt....8+OZ out of the crank sensor hole....AND .....no oil in the Tranny....yup its in the Primary.....    

[Ohio HD]

Ah well, 2021 is just around the corner....       

[VDeuce]

So......we sold a 2019 Trike.....less then 1000 KM on it this week....yup.....you guessed it...Buddy pulls over...low on power.....heating up bad.....we pick it up....oil smells like its burnt....8+OZ out of the crank sensor hole....AND .....no oil in the Tranny....yup its in the Primary.....    

Latest, latest, latest,,,,latest pump? lol
Primary vent?

[HV]

Update.....we found the Sumping reason.....rear piston jet loose....you could wiggle it up and down with ease ....    primary had no vent ....does now....

[Hossamania]

So with all the updates and awareness of the known issues, they still have not updated that part/design, and the process of assembly? Is it just too much work for them to try and solve all the problems at one time?

[14GuineaPig]

So with all the updates and awareness of the known issues, they still have not updated that part/design, and the process of assembly? Is it just too much work for them to try and solve all the problems at one time?

So once again the sumping problem occurs, caused by a known assembly problem or defect.  Any damage to the engine?  Will HD authorize a complete inspection of the engine or just say put it back together and it should make it to the end of the warranty period.  Will it get the latest & greatest oil pump?  And this is why I think I'll keep my Twin Cam.

[HV]

Complete tear down and inspection.....new updated pump will be installed as well as Vent for Primary

[14GuineaPig]

Well that's good news.  Glad HD stepped up and is taking care of the customer.

[VDeuce]

HV, when you guys handle the oilers, do you replace the gaskets with Cometics?

[HV]

No have to use HD parts ....I wish they had O Rings like the Twin Cams ....never an issue with them

[les]

Update.....we found the Sumping reason.....rear piston jet loose....you could wiggle it up and down with ease ....    primary had no vent ....does now....

I was really hoping that I'd see in the 2020 tech forum documentation that they addressed the piston jet issue.  So, what are we supposed to do?  Buy a new bike, take it home, and immediately tear down the engine to fix the jets?  The thought of internal hemorrhaging in the engine makes my skin crawl. 

[rbabos]

Pretty sure after what like 4 revised pumps the pump was never the issue. More like extreme internal leakages for whatever reason, overpowering the scavenge side.
Ron

[PoorUB]

Ron, when are you guys gonna come up with a fix for everything so HD can steal it. Between the bean counters and underpaid engineers they are never get this M8 straightened up!

[HV]

You dont want to know how many bikes found sumping had loose piston jets ............

[Prostock]

Anyone have the cometic part number.  Have a 17 in the shop for sumping and transfer.

[Txwezl]

part number c10174

[road-dawgs1]

Twin-cooled oil pump kit 62400248 comes with 62400055 Gerotor Assy and 62400242 Oil Pump Assy and 62400245 Cover w/Seal.

Air cooled oil pump kit 62400247 contains 62400126 gerotor assy and 62400238 oil pump assy and 62400245 cover w/seal

[VDeuce]

You guys using loctite on the piston oiler screws? I used blue when I did mine.

[rbabos]

Ron, when are you guys gonna come up with a fix for everything so HD can steal it. Between the bean counters and underpaid engineers they are never get this M8 straightened up!

I'm too busy enjoying my v rod. You know, the one engine they got right before unleashing it to the public. Besides, I'm still licking my wounds from the last episode. Stop reminding me.
Ron

[PoorUB]

Funny thing about the VRod, one piece forged crankshaft. I don't recall any complaints of crankshaft run out. You would think that HD could learn from it's self!

Plus the crankshaft sells for $375!! Of course, to be fair one would have to include the con rods and bearings, but still about 60% of the price of a factory TC crank. Why does the MoCo insist on these pressed together cranks??

[rbabos]

Funny thing about the VRod, one piece forged crankshaft. I don't recall any complaints of crankshaft run out. You would think that HD could learn from it's self!

Plus the crankshaft sells for $375!! Of course, to be fair one would have to include the con rods and bearings, but still about 60% of the price of a factory TC crank. Why does the MoCo insist on these pressed together cranks??

Well, it's cheaper then the 5 piece bolt together previous versions. I really have issue with the runout tolerances from HD. I use to fly a 582 Rotax engine and eventually came to it's rebuild hours. Being a pressed 2 cyl inline crank, it's quite long in comparison. In the box for the new crank there's a tag. It states measure the runout. Max is .001 anywhere. If over , send it back for replacement. Here we have HD with it's stubby crank with an allowed .013 max runout. Seriously? Even the lesser quality 583 snowmobile engine had a max of .003. I might add after 300 hours of screaming at 6000-6500 rpm, the old crank was still within Rotax specs. Personally, I prefer a one piece forged crank like I have now. Press cranks better suited for 2 strokes that use roller bearing rods. I'm not sure the Harley faithfull can tolerate that 1" cylinder offset with a one piece forged crank. Tradition is hard to break away from. This is what the v rod crank looks like.
Ron

[FSG]

I'm not sure the Harley faithfull can tolerate that 1" cylinder offset with a one piece forged crank.

there's ways around that but it's not in any of the boxes that HD has cared to look in and it'd cost more than a nickle anyway so there's no chance of it ever happening 

[rbabos]

I'm not sure the Harley faithfull can tolerate that 1" cylinder offset with a one piece forged crank.

there's ways around that but it's not in any of the boxes that HD has cared to look in and it'd cost more than a nickle anyway so there's no chance of it ever happening

Yup, master, slave rod arrangement for a plain bearing setup. It's worked for Pratt and Whitney for ions on the radials. True, it's always about costs in the end. Here's one such example. Oiling system would need to be set for pressure, rather then current metered cam plate dribble. Not sure if scavenge would keep up either.
Ron

[Geezer_Glider]

They can even stay with forked rods as in the Merlin and Allison V12 engines. Wouldn't be too expensive and could even be adapted to the current engine (hint, hint!). Must add a side dig, 43K miles on a junk M8 Ultra, no sump, no transfer, no problems except clutch switch fixed while under warranty.
Just saying,
R Meyer

[les]

You guys using loctite on the piston oiler screws? I used blue when I did mine.

I've not yet done piston jets on an M8, but have many times on twin cam engines.  I use purple loctite on those piston jet screws.  It's the only fastener that I use purple.  I suspect that I'd use purple on the M8 jet screws too.

[Don D]

https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?

[guppymech]

From my A&P schooling textbooks,   Since the master rod tips from side to side while it is carried around by the crankshaft, the link rod(s) follow a elliptical path instead of the circular path required for uniform movement.  For this reason there is less than 40 deg crankshaft travel between the TDC  positions of some pistons and more than 40 deg travel between the TDC positions of other pistons (9 cyl radial).  To get accurate timing between all the cylinders the magneto points cam had differently spaced lobes and was called a Compensated Cam.  The difference in timing on a 9 cyl radial with cylinders spaced every 40 deg could be as much as 2.5 degrees.
I wonder if Fuelling took this timing variation into account with their new crank/rod assy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKipX5WA14

[IronButt70]

From my A&P schooling textbooks,   Since the master rod tips from side to side while it is carried around by the crankshaft, the link rod(s) follow a elliptical path instead of the circular path required for uniform movement.  For this reason there is less than 40 deg crankshaft travel between the TDC  positions of some pistons and more than 40 deg travel between the TDC positions of other pistons (9 cyl radial).  To get accurate timing between all the cylinders the magneto points cam had differently spaced lobes and was called a Compensated Cam.  The difference in timing on a 9 cyl radial with cylinders spaced every 40 deg could be as much as 2.5 degrees.
I wonder if Fuelling took this timing variation into account with their new crank/rod assy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKipX5WA14

Those 28 cylinder engines on the B-29 must have been fun to time. 

[Ken R]

Do all 2019's suffer from  loose jets? 
7,500 miles on mine so far and no symptoms of sumping. 

If no sumping occurs, does it mean the the jets are fine?

Mine was built in November of 2018, I think.

[BigT]

https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?

The latest 8 lobe H-D pump seems to have worked for me. I get about 4oz of oil to drain after numerous tests.

[jamminhd2000]

https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?

The latest 8 lobe H-D pump seems to have worked for me. I get about 4oz of oil to drain after numerous tests.

Big T are you running a stock motor or do you have performance upgrades? Thanks...Jimmy

[BigT]

https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?

The latest 8 lobe H-D pump seems to have worked for me. I get about 4oz of oil to drain after numerous tests.

Big T are you running a stock motor or do you have performance upgrades? Thanks...Jimmy

I have a 124"