dry sump/wet sump. any improvements on 2019 engines?

[PoorUB]

What difference  does it make when you pick it up, warranty wise? Start the warranty in the spring and it spends the last months of the warranty  parked in the garage. Pick it up now and the warranty  runs out when you park it for winter, two years  from now.

[DeneFLHR]

I love my '15 SGS but when I asked my dealer what I'd get on a trade I just about fell over on how generous he was on a '19 M8.
$10,000 difference plus tax and they will include a full Stage 1 ($1569) on a vivid black FLTRX
I am seriously considering it but would be so nervous over the upcoming winter until I can log miles on it if she'll keep oil where it's supposed to be and not sump.

Maybe you can work a deal  with the bike staying there til spring, if you bring your used bike in now . That would start the warranty  when you pick it up.

That's a heck of a good idea. I'm going to request that but like PoorUB says, I still get two seasons under warranty.

[NHBagger]

Hopefully there will be more feedback on this for the 2019's.  I'd really like to have a 19 with a 114, but on hold for now.

[NHBagger]

I know it's still early, but still not much chatter on the 19s?

[Reddog74usa]

The way there going you'll be lucky if they get em right in the next ten years 

[happyman]

The way there going you'll be lucky if they get em right in the next ten years 

there will be another experiment for the public from HD  to test before then. then start all over again! can't imagine another failure like these m8 have been

[joe_lyons]

So the flywheel cavity breaths through the pinion bearing into the cam cavity.  With this new seal I guess it now stops that.  So what happens to the pressure and vacuum?  Reason for my inquiry is that I have a customer with 2019 trike with this new seal and he is having some issues.  I did install a 465 cam and tuned to and followed the new tq sequence.  Bike was fine for over 1k miles after cam and tune.  Excessive oil is soaking the AN big sucker air filter and his oil levels are going down.  He had 8oz when draining from the sump plug and 37oz when I drained the primary(trans oil level is good).  When the bike is running I do not feel any air movement from the head breathers at all.  So what the hell?

[PoorUB]

I have been trying to understand what this seal does to, other than the obvious. It will stop or reduce oil moving from the cam chest to the crankcase, but why does it stop sumping, and like Joe asks, where does the crankcase ventilate? Cam bearing only? Seems like a screwed up deal to me I would want as much air movement out of the crankcase to the cam chest as possible.

[RoadGlideRob]

Is it safe to say the S&S pump cam plate kit fixes all the sumping issues?  I believe I've read it does in other threads but just making sure since I've already ordered mine. 

[joe_lyons]

Is it safe to say the S&S pump cam plate kit fixes all the sumping issues?  I believe I've read it does in other threads but just making sure since I've already ordered mine. 

When talking with S&S today they say most of the time yes unless there is an underlying issue that no oil pump would fix.

[rbabos]

I have been trying to understand what this seal does to, other than the obvious. It will stop or reduce oil moving from the cam chest to the crankcase, but why does it stop sumping, and like Joe asks, where does the crankcase ventilate? Cam bearing only? Seems like a screwed up deal to me I would want as much air movement out of the crankcase to the cam chest as possible.

I agree. Makes no damn sense to me.Without venting the crank area to the cam side the whole process is useless. It has to be a shared unit between the crank area and the cam side since the path for the air is up the pushrod tubes to the breather valve area. Like you say, you want all the air out of the crank area on piston down stroke to achieve a static to slight negative pressure in that area. Positive pressure is not desired at all.
Ron

[JMHD]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this as well. They have released zero info on what the new oil pump plate does, From what i have been told it is supposed to act like an umbrella valve. So judging by how the seal looks i figure it will let a certain amount of downstroke pressure through into the cam compartment and not let oil/pressure back into the flywheel compartment? I have installed 3 backplates now and once they are installed they have more resistance due to pressure movement (or lack of) when rotating the engine with the rear wheel in high gear with the plugs out, makes for some different noises than used to. It reminds me of the S&S reed valve assembly that came out in the early twin cam days for carryover problems. Just my thoughts, would love to know the exact explanation behind it.   

[yobtaf103]

Love to hear the HD theory behind this, as it seems to retro fit to early pumps ?
So all those pump revisions, going down a blind alley?

[BigT]

Is it safe to say the S&S pump cam plate kit fixes all the sumping issues?  I believe I've read it does in other threads but just making sure since I've already ordered mine. 

When talking with S&S today they say most of the time yes unless there is an underlying issue that no oil pump would fix.

I had called S&S and asked why I was still getting 12oz of oil out of the sump after installing their pump and plate. The tech said "did you have a sumping issue before you installed our pump....we never claimed our pump fixes the sumping problem"   
Pulled out the S&S pump and plate and install the HD plate with the seal and the sumping issues stopped.  Save your money.

[Buglet]

     That's what I like about S&S. They must of took lessons for Harley. It must be the new way of doing business.

[yobtaf103]

So the flywheel cavity breaths through the pinion bearing into the cam cavity.  With this new seal I guess it now stops that.  So what happens to the pressure and vacuum?  Reason for my inquiry is that I have a customer with 2019 trike with this new seal and he is having some issues.  I did install a 465 cam and tuned to and followed the new tq sequence.  Bike was fine for over 1k miles after cam and tune.  Excessive oil is soaking the AN big sucker air filter and his oil levels are going down.  He had 8oz when draining from the sump plug and 37oz when I drained the primary(trans oil level is good).  When the bike is running I do not feel any air movement from the head breathers at all.  So what the hell?

Joe, been issues with the AN big sucker doing that, apparently AN selling updated backplate $30 !

some found it stops if motor only filled midway between marks on dipstick

[roadcaptain]

Is it safe to say the S&S pump cam plate kit fixes all the sumping issues?  I believe I’ve read it does in other threads but just making sure since I’ve already ordered mine. 

When talking with S&S today they say most of the time yes unless there is an underlying issue that no oil pump would fix.

I had called S&S and asked why I was still getting 12oz of oil out of the sump after installing their pump and plate. The tech said “did you have a sumping issue before you installed our pump....we never claimed our pump fixes the sumping problem”   
Pulled out the S&S pump and plate and install the HD plate with the seal and the sumping issues stopped.  Save your money.

So since you took out the S&S pump and put the new Harley cover with the seal, is there an O-ring on the pinion shaft as well, or only the seal on the cover? In an earlier post in this thread made by rigidthumper, he stated "Plate seal would combine with the O-ring on the pinion shaft to isolate lower end.." I haven't had my pump out yet and I can't tell by the drawings if the O-ring (#8 in drawing) is on the scavenge port or the pinion shaft

[JMHD]

It does look like that o-ring is on the pinion shaft according to the parts breakdown, but it's the o-ring for the scavenge port on the oil pump. Hope that helps.

[roadcaptain]

It does look like that o-ring is on the pinion shaft according to the parts breakdown, but it's the o-ring for the scavenge port on the oil pump. Hope that helps.

Yes it does help, that is what I was thinking too. I have all the parts to do a cam swap including the new oil pump with the latest cover with the seal. I just wanted to make sure if there is a O-ring on the shaft then I need to get one. That drawing is not clear at all to me. Thanks!

[JMHD]

 

[rigidthumper]

There's two orings in the cam cavity-11293 and 11900103. I thought one was to seal the pinion shaft, but it appears that one is for the plate ( pick up side) and one is for the pump ( flywheel sump)