Is 114 (stroked 107) really better than 107? ie xtock 114 vs cammed 107...

[Adam76]

 Hey guys,  buying a new M8,  with the cost relatively the same  -  I'm leaning toward a cammed 107 rarer than a 114 heritage with just slip ons.

Obviously the cammed 107 will have the full exhaust a/c PCV and dyno tune.

Just long for some advice. 
Thanks

[rigidthumper]

The longer stroke engine (114) can be made a 128 with a drop on cylinder/piston kit. 


Seems to me the bigger base engine has better resale value in the trade in books. 

[Ancient]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

[Hossamania]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

That. And it can be easily cammed and tuned in the near future.

[Adam76]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

That. And it can be easily cammed and tuned in the near future.

Thanks Hossamania, but the cams I've seen released so far for the 114  are the same cams for the 107?   They are not making specific cams for the 114, I don't get why, because they are not the same engine exactly and from what I've read they don't share the same cam from the factory either? 
I like the new S&S 465 cam for the 107,  but I don't see how it's as good in the 114... doesn't sound the same either from the you tube clips I've watched.
Thanks

[Durwood]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

That. And it can be easily cammed and tuned in the near future.

Thanks Hossamania, but the cams I've seen released so far for the 114  are the same cams for the 107?   They are not making specific cams for the 114, I don't get why, because they are not the same engine exactly and from what I've read they don't share the same cam from the factory either? 
I like the new S&S 465 cam for the 107,  but I don't see how it's as good in the 114... doesn't sound the same either from the you tube clips I've watched.
Thanks

Herko and I discussed this very thing just recently. Guy's automatically think that it's absolutely necessary to go to a
"bigger" cam when going with larger cubes, this is a misconception that's been brewed up on the internet and isn't totally factual.

Can you go longer? Sure, but the left side torque will suffer due to the lower CCP unless you pull the heads and adjust the compression.

Here is a perfect example of what we are discussing. The Cycle-Rama 460 was designed as a bolt in cam for the 107 and the Cycle-Rama 470 was designed as a bolt in for the 114, and it works really well with a compression bump.

As you can see the CR-460 is better everywhere other than above 5000 rpm.

This is a 2017, 114", CVO Street Glide.
[attach=0]

[RoadGlideRob]

great data point for those considering modifications.  thanks for sharing

[Adam76]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

That. And it can be easily cammed and tuned in the near future.

Thanks Hossamania, but the cams I've seen released so far for the 114  are the same cams for the 107?   They are not making specific cams for the 114, I don't get why, because they are not the same engine exactly and from what I've read they don't share the same cam from the factory either? 
I like the new S&S 465 cam for the 107,  but I don't see how it's as good in the 114... doesn't sound the same either from the you tube clips I've watched.
Thanks

Herko and I discussed this very thing just recently. Guy's automatically think that it's absolutely necessary to go to a
"bigger" cam when going with larger cubes, this is a misconception that's been brewed up on the internet and isn't totally factual.

Can you go longer? Sure, but the left side torque will suffer due to the lower CCP unless you pull the heads and adjust the compression.

Here is a perfect example of what we are discussing. The Cycle-Rama 460 was designed as a bolt in cam for the 107 and the Cycle-Rama 470 was designed as a bolt in for the 114, and it works really well with a compression bump.

As you can see the CR-460 is better everywhere other than above 5000 rpm.

This is a 2017, 114", CVO Street Glide.
[attach=0]

Thanks Durwood, that's great info.
Would you expect the same results from the Red Shift Zippers 468 cam?  And which cam would you choose between the CR 460 and the Zippers cam for the 114?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledgeable experience,

[Admiral Akbar]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

That. And it can be easily cammed and tuned in the near future.

Thanks Hossamania, but the cams I've seen released so far for the 114  are the same cams for the 107?   They are not making specific cams for the 114, I don't get why, because they are not the same engine exactly and from what I've read they don't share the same cam from the factory either? 
I like the new S&S 465 cam for the 107,  but I don't see how it's as good in the 114... doesn't sound the same either from the you tube clips I've watched.
Thanks

Herko and I discussed this very thing just recently. Guy's automatically think that it's absolutely necessary to go to a
"bigger" cam when going with larger cubes, this is a misconception that's been brewed up on the internet and isn't totally factual.

Can you go longer? Sure, but the left side torque will suffer due to the lower CCP unless you pull the heads and adjust the compression.

Here is a perfect example of what we are discussing. The Cycle-Rama 460 was designed as a bolt in cam for the 107 and the Cycle-Rama 470 was designed as a bolt in for the 114, and it works really well with a compression bump.

As you can see the CR-460 is better everywhere other than above 5000 rpm.

This is a 2017, 114", CVO Street Glide.
[attach=0]

Technically you are wrong.  If you want to keep the same torque curve you need to match flow with increase in displacement.  Your dyno shows nothing.  You need to compare a 107  with the 460 to a 114 with the 470.

[Adam76]

Anyone have any thoughts on the red shift 468 cam?  Seems to be producing the best results so far,  at least they say so...
Thanks

[Durwood]

JMO - I'll take more displacement any day.

That. And it can be easily cammed and tuned in the near future.

Thanks Hossamania, but the cams I've seen released so far for the 114  are the same cams for the 107?   They are not making specific cams for the 114, I don't get why, because they are not the same engine exactly and from what I've read they don't share the same cam from the factory either? 
I like the new S&S 465 cam for the 107,  but I don't see how it's as good in the 114... doesn't sound the same either from the you tube clips I've watched.
Thanks

Herko and I discussed this very thing just recently. Guy's automatically think that it's absolutely necessary to go to a
"bigger" cam when going with larger cubes, this is a misconception that's been brewed up on the internet and isn't totally factual.

Can you go longer? Sure, but the left side torque will suffer due to the lower CCP unless you pull the heads and adjust the compression.

Here is a perfect example of what we are discussing. The Cycle-Rama 460 was designed as a bolt in cam for the 107 and the Cycle-Rama 470 was designed as a bolt in for the 114, and it works really well with a compression bump.

As you can see the CR-460 is better everywhere other than above 5000 rpm.

This is a 2017, 114", CVO Street Glide.
[attach=0]

Thanks Durwood, that's great info.
Would you expect the same results from the Red Shift Zippers 468 cam?  And which cam would you choose between the CR 460 and the Zippers cam for the 114?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledgeable experience,

Both the CR-460 and the RS-468 work well. IMO the best 2 bolt in cams currently available for the Milwaukee Eight.

I have tested both cams in 107's as well as 114's. Neither disappoint, and are always within a % or two as far as peak numbers and the shape of the curves are nearly identical, provided they are using the same exhaust.

There isn't a wrong choice here, either will leave you with a smile on your face.

Daren

[Adam76]

Thanks again Daren, really interesting to hear that both the 107 and 114 with the cam added (decent exhaust on both) produce almost the exact same curves and numbers.... I would have guessed the extra 7 cubes in the 114 would have made a significant difference.
Cheers. 👍

[Durwood]

Thanks again Daren, really interesting to hear that both the 107 and 114 with the cam added (decent exhaust on both) produce almost the exact same curves and numbers.... I would have guessed the extra 7 cubes in the 114 would have made a significant difference.
Cheers. 👍

The CR460 and the RS468 produce curves that are very similar in a 107" or 114" in shape only, not numbers wise. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Your thoughts are correct, the extra 7 cubes of the 114" raises the curve proportionately from the 107".

You can see what different cams and pipes do in this thread.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.100

Daren

[Hillside Motorcycle]

A 107" bored to 117" with a .030" gasket, with that .468 has all most want in the low-mid area.
Insta-power.

[hd06myway]

strictly stock 114" vs cammed 107" the 107" will out run it easily...

[Adam76]

Thanks again Daren, really interesting to hear that both the 107 and 114 with the cam added (decent exhaust on both) produce almost the exact same curves and numbers.... I would have guessed the extra 7 cubes in the 114 would have made a significant difference.
Cheers. 👍

The CR460 and the RS468 produce curves that are very similar in a 107" or 114" in shape only, not numbers wise. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Your thoughts are correct, the extra 7 cubes of the 114" raises the curve proportionately from the 107".

You can see what different cams and pipes do in this thread.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.100

Daren

Thanks Daren, you guys have done an awesome job of testing and sharing such great info. 👍

Have you seen any clutch slippage or the need for a stronger clutch when testing these cams in the 114 motors?  Looks like they are producing pretty hefty numbers.
Thanks

[Durwood]

Thanks again Daren, really interesting to hear that both the 107 and 114 with the cam added (decent exhaust on both) produce almost the exact same curves and numbers.... I would have guessed the extra 7 cubes in the 114 would have made a significant difference.
Cheers. 👍

The CR460 and the RS468 produce curves that are very similar in a 107" or 114" in shape only, not numbers wise. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Your thoughts are correct, the extra 7 cubes of the 114" raises the curve proportionately from the 107".

You can see what different cams and pipes do in this thread.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.100

Daren

Thanks Daren, you guys have done an awesome job of testing and sharing such great info. 👍

Have you seen any clutch slippage or the need for a stronger clutch when testing these cams in the 114 motors?  Looks like they are producing pretty hefty numbers.
Thanks

I use Barnett springs. On the stage 2 level, they hold great.

[Adam76]

Thanks again Daren, really interesting to hear that both the 107 and 114 with the cam added (decent exhaust on both) produce almost the exact same curves and numbers.... I would have guessed the extra 7 cubes in the 114 would have made a significant difference.
Cheers. 👍

The CR460 and the RS468 produce curves that are very similar in a 107" or 114" in shape only, not numbers wise. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Your thoughts are correct, the extra 7 cubes of the 114" raises the curve proportionately from the 107".

You can see what different cams and pipes do in this thread.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.100

Daren

Thanks Daren, you guys have done an awesome job of testing and sharing such great info. 👍

Have you seen any clutch slippage or the need for a stronger clutch when testing these cams in the 114 motors?  Looks like they are producing pretty hefty numbers.
Thanks

I use Barnett springs. On the stage 2 level, they hold great.

Thanks Daren,  again ready helpful to know before starting a cam swap.
I am assuming the clutch lever effort is heavier with the Barnett springs?   My old left hand injury is a real pain in the ass and I don't want to increase lever effort at all. 
Thanks

[Durwood]

Thanks again Daren, really interesting to hear that both the 107 and 114 with the cam added (decent exhaust on both) produce almost the exact same curves and numbers.... I would have guessed the extra 7 cubes in the 114 would have made a significant difference.
Cheers. 👍

The CR460 and the RS468 produce curves that are very similar in a 107" or 114" in shape only, not numbers wise. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Your thoughts are correct, the extra 7 cubes of the 114" raises the curve proportionately from the 107".

You can see what different cams and pipes do in this thread.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.100

Daren

Thanks Daren, you guys have done an awesome job of testing and sharing such great info. 👍

Have you seen any clutch slippage or the need for a stronger clutch when testing these cams in the 114 motors?  Looks like they are producing pretty hefty numbers.
Thanks

I use Barnett springs. On the stage 2 level, they hold great.

Thanks Daren,  again ready helpful to know before starting a cam swap.
I am assuming the clutch lever effort is heavier with the Barnett springs?   My old left hand injury is a real pain in the ass and I don't want to increase lever effort at all. 
Thanks

Lever pull effort is increased by just adding springs, you will need to explore other avenues to keep the lever pull you have currently, and still hold the added torque.