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M8 power output

Started by BigT, July 14, 2017, 07:14:06 PM

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irishrover

Well actually it weighs about 400 lbs more and as far as looks its apple and oranges, but what no one can take away from Harley is its ( my opinion its prehistoric looks) I get a kick out of the motor shake at idle, and that motor responds so well to relatively inexpensive improvements just changing the cams can give you 10-20 more hp and torque. I guess i'm just a little sour because I've spent so much money on the Harley chasing hp and riding comfort( talking shocks here ) That I feel I should have left it stock and road it because in stock form it traveled 70-80 all day long just like now and I spent well over 3000 in parts and luckily I did all the labor and saved probably another 3000, and after spending nearly a 1000 on rear shocks and the wife still needs an air hawk cushion I'm just real disappointed. I mean the bike cost 20,000 new and you have to spend minimum 5000 more (not counting labor) and it still don't compare to ride quality of my BMW RT or MY Ducati Multistrada So right now the Road king is designated to toy run duty's and posing duty's     

sfmichael

Quote from: irishrover on November 19, 2017, 11:21:05 AM
Well actually it weighs about 400 lbs more and as far as looks its apple and oranges, but what no one can take away from Harley is its ( my opinion its prehistoric looks) I get a kick out of the motor shake at idle, and that motor responds so well to relatively inexpensive improvements just changing the cams can give you 10-20 more hp and torque. I guess i'm just a little sour because I've spent so much money on the Harley chasing hp and riding comfort( talking shocks here ) That I feel I should have left it stock and road it because in stock form it traveled 70-80 all day long just like now and I spent well over 3000 in parts and luckily I did all the labor and saved probably another 3000, and after spending nearly a 1000 on rear shocks and the wife still needs an air hawk cushion I'm just real disappointed. I mean the bike cost 20,000 new and you have to spend minimum 5000 more (not counting labor) and it still don't compare to ride quality of my BMW RT or MY Ducati Multistrada So right now the Road king is designated to toy run duty's and posing duty's   

there's some harsh truth in that  :up:  :smiled:
Colorado Springs, CO.

PoorUB

Yep, no reason HD can not spend a little R&D on some rear shocks for the baggers. The stock ones are crap. Go ride some of the other brands and it makes you wonder where the nearly $30k went. Plus the engine is fine for 50-60 MPH, but hit the interstate and try to make some time and it doesn't make it in stock form.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Nastytls

They have no reason to spend any money on R&D. Unlike other manufacturers, HD knows people will accept glaringly inferior quality and still consider it "the best". They also know if they offer accessories people will happily throw down even more cash, despite it still being inferior to aftermarket parts. No other company would get away with it, but as long as people continue to line up and buy them they will never change.

sfmichael

Quote from: Nastytls on January 19, 2018, 04:26:24 PM
They have no reason to spend any money on R&D. Unlike other manufacturers, HD knows people will accept glaringly inferior quality and still consider it "the best". They also know if they offer accessories people will happily throw down even more cash, despite it still being inferior to aftermarket parts. No other company would get away with it, but as long as people continue to line up and buy them they will never change.

pretty much  :emsad:
Colorado Springs, CO.

BigT

I see a new 133 cu in build by Star Power making 176 hp & 157 tq. Not sure of the specifics of the build but it was still building power at 7k

HD/Wrench

saw that as well Was going to give George a call about that impressive for sure .

1FSTRK

Quote from: BigT on September 08, 2018, 12:20:43 PM
I see a new 133 cu in build by Star Power making 176 hp & 157 tq. Not sure of the specifics of the build but it was still building power at 7k


Did someone say way back in the beginning if you could grow the engine big enough and spin it fast enough you may start to utilize the size of the ported factory M-8 heads?
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Nastytls

How much time/durability could you honestly expect with one of these dinosaurs spinning to 7k... Looking at the power curve on their dyno sheet it doesn't really look like it's worth it at all.

PoorUB

Maybe if HD stepped up the technology a bt, maybe a lot, and built a decent engine. 7,000 RPM is nothing. My BMW 1200 opposed twin redlines at 10,000.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Ohio HD

45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Nastytls

I have a 1200 Boxer too, to be 100% fair they only have 2.3" of stroke which makes higher rpm much easier.

yobtaf103

Quote from: BigT on November 06, 2017, 04:22:22 PM
I'm hoping S&S comes out with M8 "bolt-on" cylinders with steel liners this winter! It looks like the cases will take a 4.250 bore using resleeved cylinders (Hot Shot Motorworks) Not sure how big you could go with the much thinner steel liners.  131" would be nice!

Looks like this winter!

PoorUB

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Hossamania

Quote from: PoorUB on September 09, 2018, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!

They went away from it with the Vrod and look how that worked out.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Ohio HD

Quote from: PoorUB on September 09, 2018, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!
If they want to sell them they'll keep them 45°. The only HD owners that would really buy some other HD motor configuration, doesn't want an HD anyway. HD goes away from a 45° and they cease to be HD's.


sfmichael

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on September 09, 2018, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!
If they want to sell them they'll keep them 45°. The only HD owners that would really buy some other HD motor configuration, doesn't want an HD anyway. HD goes away from a 45° and they cease to be HD's.

nailed it
Colorado Springs, CO.

PoorUB

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on September 09, 2018, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!
If they want to sell them they'll keep them 45°. The only HD owners that would really buy some other HD motor configuration, doesn't want an HD anyway. HD goes away from a 45° and they cease to be HD's.

Pretty much what the masses will think! Why change? It has always been done ths way!

As for the Vrod, I don't believe it was the engine, it was the motorcycle. Good engine, wrong frame, but he Harley masses run from technology so it probably wouldn't have been accepted no matter the HP , torque or frame it was installed into.

I am curious  to see what Harley riders will be buying in th next ten-twenty years.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Nastytls

September 10, 2018, 02:13:13 PM #43 Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 02:41:42 PM by Nastytls
Quote from: PoorUB on September 10, 2018, 02:07:56 PM
I am curious  to see what Harley riders will be buying in th next ten-twenty years.

Harley riders will all be dead or in nursing homes in the next 20 yrs so HD won't need to worry about making them happy anymore because there won't be any... :hyst:

Ohio HD

Quote from: Nastytls on September 10, 2018, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on September 10, 2018, 02:07:56 PM
I am curious  to see what Harley riders will be buying in th next ten-twenty years.

Harley riders will all be dead or in nursing homes in the next 20 yrs so HD won't need to worry about making them happy anymore because there won't be any... :hyst:

    :up:


98fxstc

Quote from: PoorUB on September 10, 2018, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on September 09, 2018, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!
If they want to sell them they'll keep them 45°. The only HD owners that would really buy some other HD motor configuration, doesn't want an HD anyway. HD goes away from a 45° and they cease to be HD's.

Pretty much what the masses will think! Why change? It has always been done ths way!

As for the Vrod, I don't believe it was the engine, it was the motorcycle. Good engine, wrong frame, but he Harley masses run from technology so it probably wouldn't have been accepted no matter the HP , torque or frame it was installed into.

I am curious  to see what Harley riders will be buying in th next ten-twenty years.

Harleys have had changing and improving technology over the years and the masses have followed.

The M8's don't sound like Harleys and are looking less and less like Harleys, and more and more like Jap and European bikes.
Not just more and more plastic, but styling as well.

Who knows where we will end up.

DTTJGlide

Seems like almost every thread on here turns to bashing HDs, maybe we should change the name to Harley Trash Talk. I know they're far from perfect, but I've got over 300K on 4 Harleys, 3 TCS & now a M8 with 37K & I've had very few major problems. The dreaded 1st year 99 RK with 82K, a 00 EG 110K, 88K that I put on & had to do hyd tensioner upgrade, 09 RG with 142K did comp upgrade about 80K & throwout bearing at 102K, 17 RG that needed the clutch switch replaced, it has 37K & I'm lucky again as no sumping & maybe 6 oz of trans migration in that time. All were modded, 3 TCs were 103s with cams & headwork, the M8 has been Stg 2 for the last 18.5K. I must just be lucky as he!!, just gets old reading all the crap, I expect it on the other sites, not so much on here, OK rant over, go back to whatever you were up to before.

sfmichael

Quote from: PoorUB on September 10, 2018, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on September 09, 2018, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 09, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
45° degree v-twins are not high RPM motors. That's why companies like Ducati use 90° v-twins, and the Honda V45  Magna, they were 90° v-4's. Yamaha V-Max, 65° and even Kawasaki v-twins went to 50° angle. Horizontally opposed twins are turnips to peas in comparison to a 45° v-twin.

Who said they had to stay with a 45 degree V? Of course they will, because they have always done it that way!
If they want to sell them they'll keep them 45°. The only HD owners that would really buy some other HD motor configuration, doesn't want an HD anyway. HD goes away from a 45° and they cease to be HD's.

Pretty much what the masses will think! Why change? It has always been done ths way!

As for the Vrod, I don't believe it was the engine, it was the motorcycle. Good engine, wrong frame, but he Harley masses run from technology so it probably wouldn't have been accepted no matter the HP , torque or frame it was installed into.

I am curious  to see what Harley riders will be buying in th next ten-twenty years.

Now we'll never know...but I always wondered why they didn't try putting that stellar engine in a touring frame.

The technology is changing, just slowly. But I don't mind the pace. Just need a better suspension to satisfy me. I don't mind souping them up - I actually enjoy it. I wouldn't mind upgrading the suspension either, if they would just give us more to work with. We need 5-6 inches of suspension travel designed in from the factory...I'll spend the money on the better components.

Twin Cam engines can be made to run very well without megabucks invested and I think the M8 will prove to be even better as far as ROI, as they come with good heads from the factory - so no real need to spend $$ there unless you want to. Heck even the TC's can run damn good without doing the heads if you pick the other parts right. (and I'm a huge advocate of head porting)
Colorado Springs, CO.

98fxstc

Quote from: DTTJGlide on September 10, 2018, 08:54:01 PM
Seems like almost every thread on here turns to bashing HDs, maybe we should change the name to Harley Trash Talk. I know they're far from perfect, but I've got over 300K on 4 Harleys, 3 TCS & now a M8 with 37K & I've had very few major problems. The dreaded 1st year 99 RK with 82K, a 00 EG 110K, 88K that I put on & had to do hyd tensioner upgrade, 09 RG with 142K did comp upgrade about 80K & throwout bearing at 102K, 17 RG that needed the clutch switch replaced, it has 37K & I'm lucky again as no sumping & maybe 6 oz of trans migration in that time. All were modded, 3 TCs were 103s with cams & headwork, the M8 has been Stg 2 for the last 18.5K. I must just be lucky as he!!, just gets old reading all the crap, I expect it on the other sites, not so much on here, OK rant over, go back to whatever you were up to before.

Certainly not "almost every thread on here turns to bashing HDs",
maybe almost every thread in the M8 section.

I have the impression that quite a few M8 owners are a bit precious when it comes to criticism of the M8s.

Most discussion on this site looks at recognizing and addressing design shortfalls in all models of bikes.
Owners of previous models are not in denial at being short changed by the bean counters at HD but get in and do something about it.

Quite large numbers of the 'new bike' buyers do not have the necessary level of technical expertise required to address these problems themselves and are dependent on the Dealers.
New bike warranty also plays a part in reluctance by owners to address these problems with improved aftermarket parts.

And warranty is important for a bike that may have design problems or is not reliable and dependable.

We shouldn't discuss design problems in a new model because M8 owners are a bit thin skinned ?




Hossamania

There is no perfect motorcycle, no perfect suspension, no perfect engine. We choose the brand and style that come closest to meeting those parameters. Mostly we choose the ones that make us happy every time we throw a leg over.
We always want them to be better.

The most rare of all Harley Davidsons is the one that is absolutely bone stock and completely unmodified in any little way.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.