A friend of mine is deciding on a cam for his 107 in a 2017 Ultra, ridden mostly two up. It will get a Billet Cat exhaust and a tune, and likes the graphs he's seen of the 468, but is now wondering about the 475. I recommended sticking with the 468, I thought maybe the 475 would like a little more compression.
A big bore may be in the future, but doesn't necessarily play into this cam decision.
What would be recommended?
Maybe Steve GMR will chime in looks like he's doing some nice things with the M8's
I have the 475 in my Road Glide, it is a top end cam. I like it when I'm riding the bike by myself because I enjoy wringing it's neck. My wife doesn't like to ride that way so it's not really the best choice for a bagger/touring cam. I will probably be taking it out for a low-midrange cam. I can't complain because I have other bikes for that type of riding and this is the only one she rides with me.
I figured that was the way that cam would work, especially in a stock motor with no bump in compression or displacement. Thanks for that feedback.
I would disagree that its a top end cam based on my testing and a few others in fact its very close to most of them .. SS 465 will make a touch less Hp and a couple more tq I can see it on paper but its not going to be seat of the pants feeling in my opinion. IT might feel a touch snappier again what EX system in use
I have said this before and will say it again With the proper ex you get good results , use parts that do not work together as well as other's your results will vary.
Look at the amount of cam testing that has been done the slight changes are not seat of the pants type of deal
You need a solid 10/10 to really feel it .
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on December 06, 2018, 12:27:57 PM
I would disagree that its a top end cam based on my testing and a few others in fact its very close to most of them .. SS 465 will make a touch less Hp and a couple more tq I can see it on paper but its not going to be seat of the pants feeling in my opinion. IT might feel a touch snappier again what EX system in use
I have said this before and will say it again With the proper ex you get good results , use parts that do not work together as well as other's your results will vary.
Look at the amount of cam testing that has been done the slight changes are not seat of the pants type of deal
You need a solid 10/10 to really feel it .
Did you mean 475? If so, you're saying it could definitely stay in the running with the 468 as a choice?
Interesting, thanks for that feedback.
im going to throw another cam into the mix. woods 22x cam tons of torque its a great touring bike cam. im 300 lbs with a roadglide and with the 22x the bike gets up and moves.
I'm running the 475 also & I'm pleased with the way it runs, but as Steve says it's probably more dependent on the right exhaust & a top notch tune, the kind that Steve does. You commented on a 107 that he tuned back in May & were impressed with the 120 TQ & 109+ HP, mine was about the same maybe a little less on TQ. It's probably a little more to the right than the 468 & as you said it could use more CR, Steve just posted a 124 @ 11-1 that made 140/150. I guess I'd try to talk your friend into doing the BB & cam at the same time, a little more money right away, but a lot of $$ saved in the long run, a Stg 3 114 should run in the 115-120 HP & 125-130 TQ range with a good exhaust, the Billet Cat might be a little too open for the 475 in a 107 though. It really shines with a little more cubes & squeeze, oh & by the way it's in your favorite ride, I've got a 17 RG :SM:
We've talked about him going with the big bore, and of course I told him to go straight to 124"! He would love to, but all decisions are economic.
I will keep pushing the 114" with the cam, whichever cam he decides on, probably the 468, it really seems to be a good all around cam for torque and power, maybe not as sensitive to a perfect tune and exhaust as the 475, either way, it gets a good tune.
All the options are on the table, and he is receptive to good information with an open mind.
One last question, he will need an air cleaner, will the HD Heavy Breather work fine for him?
Quote from: Hossamania on December 07, 2018, 04:21:38 AM
We've talked about him going with the big bore, and of course I told him to go straight to 124"! He would love to, but all decisions are economic.
I will keep pushing the 114" with the cam, whichever cam he decides on, probably the 468, it really seems to be a good all around cam for torque and power, maybe not as sensitive to a perfect tune and exhaust as the 475, either way, it gets a good tune.
All the options are on the table, and he is receptive to good information with an open mind.
One last question, he will need an air cleaner, will the HD Heavy Breather work fine for him?
That's the one I would use.
Quote from: Durwood on December 07, 2018, 04:26:34 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 07, 2018, 04:21:38 AM
We've talked about him going with the big bore, and of course I told him to go straight to 124"! He would love to, but all decisions are economic.
I will keep pushing the 114" with the cam, whichever cam he decides on, probably the 468, it really seems to be a good all around cam for torque and power, maybe not as sensitive to a perfect tune and exhaust as the 475, either way, it gets a good tune.
All the options are on the table, and he is receptive to good information with an open mind.
One last question, he will need an air cleaner, will the HD Heavy Breather work fine for him?
That's the one I would use.
Thanks Darren.
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on December 06, 2018, 12:27:57 PM
I would disagree that its a top end cam based on my testing and a few others in fact its very close to most of them .. SS 465 will make a touch less Hp and a couple more tq I can see it on paper but its not going to be seat of the pants feeling in my opinion. IT might feel a touch snappier again what EX system in use
I have said this before and will say it again With the proper ex you get good results , use parts that do not work together as well as other's your results will vary.
Look at the amount of cam testing that has been done the slight changes are not seat of the pants type of deal
You need a solid 10/10 to really feel it .
I have a Fulsac system with Bassani DNT mufflers. I couldn't really tell you if those are a good combo or not, but I've always read good things about Fulsac. To me, the bike feels soft on the bottom and pulls nicely up top. Maybe it's because I'm comparing it to a built 117" Dyna and thats why it feels soft... :idunno:
Quote from: Nastytls on December 07, 2018, 05:44:22 AM
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on December 06, 2018, 12:27:57 PM
I would disagree that its a top end cam based on my testing and a few others in fact its very close to most of them .. SS 465 will make a touch less Hp and a couple more tq I can see it on paper but its not going to be seat of the pants feeling in my opinion. IT might feel a touch snappier again what EX system in use
I have said this before and will say it again With the proper ex you get good results , use parts that do not work together as well as other's your results will vary.
Look at the amount of cam testing that has been done the slight changes are not seat of the pants type of deal
You need a solid 10/10 to really feel it .
I have a Fulsac system with Bassani DNT mufflers. I couldn't really tell you if those are a good combo or not, but I've always read good things about Fulsac. To me, the bike feels soft on the bottom and pulls nicely up top. Maybe it's because I'm comparing it to a built 117" Dyna and thats why it feels soft... :idunno:
DNT's sound good but really hurt the left side of the graph. Nothing wrong with Fullsac, his stuff always works.
They do sound good, but I'm finding them to be too loud. I was looking for something with a deep rumble and thought these would be them ( they are named DNT ), but they're just plain loud.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 06, 2018, 08:24:19 AM
A friend of mine is deciding on a cam for his 107 in a 2017 Ultra, ridden mostly two up. It will get a Billet Cat exhaust and a tune, and likes the graphs he's seen of the 468, but is now wondering about the 475. I recommended sticking with the 468, I thought maybe the 475 would like a little more compression.
A big bore may be in the future, but doesn't necessarily play into this cam decision.
What would be recommended?
.468
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on December 11, 2018, 04:13:45 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 06, 2018, 08:24:19 AM
A friend of mine is deciding on a cam for his 107 in a 2017 Ultra, ridden mostly two up. It will get a Billet Cat exhaust and a tune, and likes the graphs he's seen of the 468, but is now wondering about the 475. I recommended sticking with the 468, I thought maybe the 475 would like a little more compression.
A big bore may be in the future, but doesn't necessarily play into this cam decision.
What would be recommended?
.468
Yes, this is the cam he has decided to use.
I rode Darren's bike with the 468 and Billet cat - that cam is impressive for a bolt in and the exhaust sounded excellent with Darren's tweak. Good call with the 468.
Fuelmoto has done extensive testing with these and a few other cams for the 107 as well, I can't find the link but I would agree that the 468 is an absolute winner of a bolt in cam for this motor.
I see you have already chosen to go with it. :up:
I thought the 475 was great in the stock 107, even when 2 up. Here is my stock vs tune. Now, I'm trying to figure out what I want for my new CVO 117.
The cams are very close Take your pick neither will be bad and neither are better than the other . On paper .. :hyst: :hyst: Whatever the tiny amount that one does over the other will never be felt
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on January 06, 2019, 07:21:27 AM
The cams are very close Take your pick neither will be bad and neither are better than the other . On paper .. :hyst: :hyst: Whatever the tiny amount that one does over the other will never be felt
Sounds like a reasonable assessment to me, Steve.
I've never had experience with a cammed M8, (just bought mine), but based on what you said, I'd go for the far cheaper S&S.
Second reason, what really stands out to me that has been said many times before is her rompy idle.
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on January 06, 2019, 07:21:27 AM
The cams are very close Take your pick neither will be bad and neither are better than the other . On paper .. :hyst: :hyst: Whatever the tiny amount that one does over the other will never be felt
Thanks Steve.
In your opinion, if the SS 475 is chosen, would you gain anything by using the thinner head gasket for a slight bump in compression?
That way you could also re-use the stock pushrods?
Thanks
:pop: (http://:pop:)
I'm ordering the SS 475 cam.
Can anyone please confirm if this cam can be installed re-using the stock pushrods and using a thinner HG for a little extra squeeze?
Thanks
Quote from: Adam76 on January 11, 2019, 04:08:07 PM
I'm ordering the SS 475 cam.
Can anyone please confirm if this cam can be installed re-using the stock pushrods and using a thinner HG for a little extra squeeze?
Thanks
Important issue that would be best answered by doing a quick call to the people who make the product themselves.
Quote from: Adam76 on January 11, 2019, 04:08:07 PM
I'm ordering the SS 475 cam.
Can anyone please confirm if this cam can be installed re-using the stock pushrods and using a thinner HG for a little extra squeeze?
Thanks
Yes.
Quote from: DeneFLHR on January 11, 2019, 05:20:58 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on January 11, 2019, 04:08:07 PM
I'm ordering the SS 475 cam.
Can anyone please confirm if this cam can be installed re-using the stock pushrods and using a thinner HG for a little extra squeeze?
Thanks
Important issue that would be best answered by doing a quick call to the people who make the product themselves.
Yes. I stand corrected. Should have done this before asking.
Thanks
Unless someone has an average measurement of what the factory's HG crushed thickness is, and what the "thinner" HG crushed thickness is, and standard valve-piston clearance is, and new cam V-P distance is, etc, may be better off just to install the cam and tune it.
From the S&S website:
Suggested:
930-0123 Quickee Adjustable Pushrods with Cover Keepers for 2017-19 M8 Models (Save labor and time! Eliminate the need to remove the rocker boxes and coolant lines)
330-0175 Premium High Performance Tappet Set Without HL2T Kit For 1999-'18 HD Big Twins, 2000-'19 HD® Sportster® Models, and 2017-'19 M8 Models (Tappets should be replaced every time that the cam is replaced)
Quote from: rigidthumper on January 12, 2019, 05:02:55 AM
Unless someone has an average measurement of what the factory's HG crushed thickness is, and what the "thinner" HG crushed thickness is, and standard valve-piston clearance is, and new cam V-P distance is, etc, may be better off just to install the cam and tune it.
From the S&S website:
Suggested:
930-0123 Quickee Adjustable Pushrods with Cover Keepers for 2017-19 M8 Models (Save labor and time! Eliminate the need to remove the rocker boxes and coolant lines)
330-0175 Premium High Performance Tappet Set Without HL2T Kit For 1999-'18 HD Big Twins, 2000-'19 HD® Sportster® Models, and 2017-'19 M8 Models (Tappets should be replaced every time that the cam is replaced)
I agree... Robin makes several good points. Having done it in the past, I will not pull the heads for the sole purpose of changing the gasket. What little you actually gain isn't worth all of the time and materials IMO.
Quote from: rigidthumper on January 12, 2019, 05:02:55 AM
Unless someone has an average measurement of what the factory's HG crushed thickness is, and what the "thinner" HG crushed thickness is, and standard valve-piston clearance is, and new cam V-P distance is, etc, may be better off just to install the cam and tune it.
From the S&S website:
Suggested:
930-0123 Quickee Adjustable Pushrods with Cover Keepers for 2017-19 M8 Models (Save labor and time! Eliminate the need to remove the rocker boxes and coolant lines)
330-0175 Premium High Performance Tappet Set Without HL2T Kit For 1999-'18 HD Big Twins, 2000-'19 HD® Sportster® Models, and 2017-'19 M8 Models (Tappets should be replaced every time that the cam is replaced)
Thanks Robin, good advice. Keep it simple.
Quote from: Durwood on January 12, 2019, 06:47:02 AM
Quote from: rigidthumper on January 12, 2019, 05:02:55 AM
Unless someone has an average measurement of what the factory's HG crushed thickness is, and what the "thinner" HG crushed thickness is, and standard valve-piston clearance is, and new cam V-P distance is, etc, may be better off just to install the cam and tune it.
I agree... Robin makes several good points. Having done it in the past, I will not pull the heads for the sole purpose of changing the gasket. What little you actually gain isn't worth all of the time and materials IMO.
Thanks Durwood 👍