Cracked!

[Deye76]

My 92' breathes through the crankcase, but had the head breather rocker covers, just didn't have the flapper valves or breather bolts.

[Scotty]

My 92' breathes through the crankcase, but had the head breather rocker covers, just didn't have the flapper valves or breather bolts.

That is correct and a lot came like that and some of the early ones had the early rocker box covers and the later ones didn't.
Some of the late ones had the later cam cover and vented through the heads and a lot didn't.
You need to check a 92 carefully as you put it together to make sure everything matches.

[14Frisco]

You need to check a 92 carefully as you put it together to make sure everything matches.

Including the cam cover gasket (25225-70C vs 25225-93B)

[JW113]

As requested:
[attach=0]

@Scotty: This Ultima case does have a port for a case breather, and indeed it came with a 1/8" NPT plug in it, which I removed and fitted with hose fitting. This port/hole goes into the cam chest area just like a stock case.

As Deye said, this '92 came with the later style rocker boxes, and even included the rubber breather valves! What it doesn't have is heads drilled for the breather port outlets.

In thinking this problem over, I'm looking at what changed from before to now:
- Crankcase
- Oil pump gaskets
- Nose cone gasket

I think if there is anything wrong with the nose cone gasket, oil would still get to the tappets, just not to the pinion shaft. Correct? So perhaps the oil pump gasket is wrong, and blocking the oil outlet from the pump? OR, the Ultima case has the oil pump outlet hole located different from the pump? I think I'll bop down to the HD dealer and get a set of oil pump gaskets, and wait for Ultima to reply to my email.

-JW

[cheech]

Did you try and remove the plug like Jeffscycle suggested? I had the same issue on a oil pump reinstallation, not new cases or what not.
I ended up packing whole gear cavity with grease, bolted cover back on and voila it developed pressure. And like yours, it was a case breathing bike and the vent fitting from cam cavity makes it hard to remove checkball.
I think oil flowing out of feed line is misleading because a air pocket can not escape once the cover is bolted back on because of the checkball.
Which doesn't allow pressure to raise checkball.
Anyway best of luck.

[JW113]

Yep, tried it all. Oil flows from every plug. I'm not sure what you mean by oil flowing out the feed line is misleading. I'm talking about a cup or more all over the garage floor until I got a plug in it! I'm pretty certain oil is getting from tank to pump.

I never heard back from Jireh/Ultima/Midwest. I am finding out first hand what a lot of you were saying about their tech support, or lack thereof. Seemingly impossible to talk to anyone other than the sales lady at Jireh, who sent me to "Ben's" voice mail, and who never called back. All I wanted to know is if there is any sort of incompatibility with their engine case and a stock oil pump.

Hell with it. This weekend I'll pull the oil pump, and check out that all the passages line up with the case, and that the gasket holes are all clear. Will pull all the plugs and manually pump oil in the oil pump output hole in the case and make sure it's coming out where it's supposed to. Has to be something stupid/obvious.

-JW

[cheech]

Yep, tried it all. Oil flows from every plug. I'm not sure what you mean by oil flowing out the feed line is misleading. 
-JW

I just meant if the line is off of fitting and gets put on the fitting, air gets trapped inside the gear cavity. One might think oh its primed, but the air is trapped inside the cavity.
But as you said you removed the plug.

Has to be something stupid/obvious. Always usually is and makes ya go duh. 

Btw, you spinning it with starter without plugs in to develop oil pressure?

[JW113]

"Btw, you spinning it with starter without plugs in to develop oil pressure?"

Yep. So much so that I am worried about how many times those pistons & rings have gone up/down with next to no lubrication. I also fired it up for a few seconds. Nada. After I check out the pump and case, and IF it all checks out, will give the cylinders a squirt of oil in the spark plug holes before turning it over any more.

-JW

[Hybredhog]

  On fresh rebuilds I like to dump a 1/2 qt. or so in the crank before I bolt on the cylinders just in case something like this happens, everything gets a good splash. Have you tried starting it with the pressure switch out, or check ball? With the check ball out, seal up around an air dart & pressurize the tank, oil should flow out the check ball hole. I generally use light cheap 10/40 for the initial fire ups, and dump it after a few heat cycles.

[turboprop]

  On fresh rebuilds I like to dump a 1/2 qt. or so in the crank before I bolt on the cylinders just in case something like this happens, everything gets a good splash. Have you tried starting it with the pressure switch out, or check ball? With the check ball out, seal up around an air dart & pressurize the tank, oil should flow out the check ball hole. I generally use light cheap 10/40 for the initial fire ups, and dump it after a few heat cycles.

Not too late to do this. Use the hole for the timing plug.

[JW113]

Yep, indeed do that. But if the scavenge side is working, probably pulled that out by now. I spun it quite a bit on the starter. I'll sneek some more down into the crankcase at some point. Interesting point about pressurising the oil tank, might give that a try.

I have pump off now and am about to start squiring oil into the case at the oil pump holes. I took the tappet screen out, something looks kind of odd at that passage near the top, that I think connects over to the tappet block area. Need to dig out the stock case and see what that looks like.

-JW

[JW113]

Are you ready for this?

As I had claimed earlier, the only thing different between before and now was the cases and a couple gaskets. I lied. Or rather, forgot one thing.

I pulled the oil pump and went through EVERYTHING. I squirted oil through every passage available, oil flowing out everywhere. Spent an hour trying to get that damn outer oil pump gear on the shaft without knocking the key out of it's groove. Another 20 minutes trying to get that damn C clip on the shaft. What a PITA. Why they hell did they not use a snap ring?

I was just about to put the cover on, when I decided to make sure oil was coming through the fitting and into the pump. I mean, why would it not? But I wanted to be thorough. I gave it a quick blow, and... nothing. Pluged up tighter than my colon the morning after eating a pound of cheeze. I put the air nozzel on it, and air was barely hissing though. Hmm....

So the thing I lied about. The stock pump had a straight 3/8" hose fitting on it. That makes the oil line routing suck, points straight into the transmission. So I swapped it for a 90deg fitting. I took it out of the pump cover, blew into the hole, and open as could be. Same with the fitting itself, wide open no blockage. I spun it back in and tried again, pluged up tight. WTF???

I took it out, looked carefully in the hole, and could see witness marks inside where the end of the fitting was pushing up against the inside wall of the cover! The fitting was going in too far, hitting the wall, and blocking the hole in the fitting like a water valve!

I filed the threads on the fitting back to about 1/4", wrapped lots of teflon tape around it, and spun it back in. Air flowing like the Mississippi in spring time. Yay!!

I put everything back on, and hit the starter. After a couple seconds it fired up, and oil light went out. Yay!!! I have a huge oily Exxon Valdez like mess to clean up tomorrow morning, but after that, will fire it up and take for a spin. Hopefully all is well and it's back in action.

-JW

[kd]

Good catch JW.   Very unusual situation for sure.

[david lee]

the reason i hate welding cracks is yrs ago i had an inner primary crack going outwards just back from the front top mounting bolt and was seeping oil had it welded by a so called expert and as soon as i started it it cracked again.i was so pissed of i smashed it to pieced and dumped it at the welders front door