transmission

[david lee]

i might have asked this question before. is there any difference between 1985 and 87 up  5sp softail.clutch wise.thanks

[rageglide]

Most significant changes were mainshafts and the move from a lever type clutch release and a few changes to the shift shaft and drum over the years.  The Output gear and change of spacer plus the output sprocket changes.   But otherwise not much really changed.   A really great transmission which can easily be updated.

90+ use splined mainshaft, earlier are tapered mainshafts.  I forget off top of my head which year they bailed on the external release lever, i think 87 or 88.

[david lee]

is this what you mean,lever type

[rageglide]

Yep, exactly   

[hbkeith]

as far as clutch , I think 84-89 same

[Dan89flstc]

The diaphragm spring (wet) clutch came out in mid-`84.

All diaphragm spring type clutches are not the same in those early years, it depends on what model bike they were on during the late `84 early `85 models.

Looking through some old handwritten notes...

On Softails:

Late `84 and early `85 clutches used P/N 37702-84 outer shell (chain drive secondary).

Late `85 through `89 clutches use P/N 37707-84 outer shell (belt drive secondary).

The main difference between these outer shells is the position of the starter ring gear.

What model year bike are you working on?





   

[jsachs1]

IIRC, 84', 85' , 86', are all the same. 87' - 89' are the same 90' was a stand alone trans. I think the mainshaft was smaller by a few thousands than 91' through 06'. Unless you need to stay close to original, I would switch to the 91' and later. Try to find a used assy, with the clutch, inner, and outer primary, and starter.
There were issues with the early clutches not re-engaging at high RPM, causing the engine to over rev. Kinda like a missed shift.
John

[david lee]

i dont know what model box it is only its a early 5 sp and  a reverse gear will only fit 87 and up. aparently inside the clutch housing is a different set up

[Dan89flstc]

Deleted

[Dan89flstc]

i dont know what model box it is only its a early 5 sp and  a reverse gear will only fit 87 and up. aparently inside the clutch housing is a different set up

Now that you have given us a little more to work with......

The difference between `86 and `87 is the trap door and the clutch release cover on the right side of the transmission case.

The `86 and earlier used the clutch release arm, the `87 and later use the ball and ramp system.

What type clutch release system is on the bike?

What reverse gear manufacturer are you attempting to use?

[rageglide]

The "easy answer" regarding compatibility is because the '87 and up transmissions use the ball and ramp like Dan said and the reverse gear kits are incompatible with the old style release mechanism.  There's no space for both lever mechanisms to coexist, you need to use an '87up ball and ramp mechanism. 

David, your picture shows an aftermarket style release mechanism, juice?  I would think that might not be compatible, but only one way to know for sure.

[david lee]

im looking at a zodiac reverse and they say it wont fit pre 87 because of the mechanism set up.my understanding is that zodiac sell a replacement trapdoor that makes it compatable,maybe i could go that way if the information is correct. thanks all

[Dan89flstc]

Just find a trapdoor for an `87 or later transmission.

[rageglide]

Pretty much all of the reverse kits replace the trapdoor.  But as I mentioned yesterday.  There is no space for both the old style lever and the reverse gear lever to coexist.  The 87+ ball and ramp doesn't consume the space the 4-speed style mechanism does. 

The aftermarket hydraulic release cover shown in the picture is probably not going to be compatible either...  anyway.

[david lee]

thanks.the zodiac site say says installation requires upgrade to the 87 clutch release mechanism as said on this post

[rageglide]

That Zodiac setup looks a different flavor of problems relative to the rear exhaust pipe.  Doesn't look like it will clear, just like all the other types.   You're going to need a Thunderheader or similar exhaust that routes high and forward.   Zodiac might not be great in this case either.   Why Zodiac over Baker?

[david lee]

at one point my hd mech mentioned baker.is there any advantage or difference.would it also require rear pipe mods.a week before i mentioned a 87 trans.he sold one.seem hard to find over here.he did say only a couple of models will fit as most are on rubberglides.thanks

[kd]

Baker description and info here ....

https://bakerdrivetrain.com/collections/reverse-gear/products/f5r-factory-5-speed-reverse?variant=16098572547

[rageglide]

David my question was mostly out of curiousity.  I think any of these kits which use a lever will likely present a challenge for that rear pipe.   The Baker unit kd linked to might allow keeping the rear pipe.  But I wouldn't hold my breath given how close your current release cover appears in the picture.  Not to mention it seems to be specific to the 90+ mainshaft...

[david lee]

there seems to be plenty distance from rear pipe to clutch cover.the distance to the oil tank is 1-half inches. the front pipe is about 1 inch to clutch cover..it looks like the baker operates electronically, not lever which might be better but it fits 1990-97 while zodiac fits 87 up. so whats the difference from 87 to 90. thanks i appreciate the replies

[rageglide]

Good question David.  I'd guess '90 and up is most compatible.  Trapdoor and release mechanism are the same 87-99

[david lee]

thanks im waiting to hear back from baker on more fitment details,it seems a better set up compared to the lever action ones