Author Topic: more hop  (Read 592 times)

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Offline alstar2

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more hop
« on: September 20, 2018, 10:52:48 AM »
a friend has a 2004 883 with 1200 cyl (hd's) , no head work , straight pipes( i hate them too) stock carb/ac.wants to know
how much more hop(his words) he would get with a carb change.   thanks Al     :nix:

Offline PC_Hater

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Re: more hop
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 12:21:43 PM »
None.

If he wants more 'hop' he has to do it properly...
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Offline rigidthumper

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Re: more hop
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 12:31:25 PM »
I agree- carb upgrade will not yield results, a simple upgrade is to bolt on a set of 2004 and newer 1200 heads. BTW, stock 1200 stage 1 (air cleaner/rejet/slip on mufflers typically get mid 70s torque and horsepower. stock 883 heads on 1200 cylinders usually make mid 50s power.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:23:38 AM by rigidthumper »

Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 03:36:01 PM »
Cams will help up that even more.
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Offline Panzer

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Re: more hop
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 05:52:50 PM »
Try stock Buell heads.
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Offline alstar2

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Re: more hop
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 07:35:54 AM »
thanks for the info but nothing about just a carb. i do hear you though.will check his bank.    Al

Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 09:06:58 AM »
thanks for the info but nothing about just a carb. i do hear you though.will check his bank.    Al

None.

If he wants more 'hop' he has to do it properly...

There was the answer to the original question regarding just a carb change adding more "hop."
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Offline bobrk1

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Re: more hop
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 11:50:34 AM »
Send  stock  to  head - quarters  or R&R CYCLE  get  them  done  . H Q  did  mine  big twin very  happy 

Offline aswracing

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Re: more hop
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 07:49:56 AM »
a friend has a 2004 883 with 1200 cyl (hd's) , no head work , straight pipes( i hate them too) stock carb/ac.wants to know
how much more hop(his words) he would get with a carb change.   thanks Al     :nix:

Always work on what's holding the motor back. Working on anything else is a waste of time and money.

In lotsa dyno testing of carb swaps, we've found the stock CV40 to start costing significant power in the 90-95hp range. Below that, swapping the carb does next to nothing for you.

So when everything else about the build is capable of those kinds of numbers, the carb starts being the constraint, and that's when it makes sense to change it.

If you've got stock 883 heads, and a stock air cleaner, and stock cams, there ain't no way in Hades you're anywhere near that level.

Work on what's holding the motor back.

Offline Pete_Vit

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Re: more hop
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2019, 07:59:22 AM »
on my 1200 the most 'hop' I got was getting away from straight pipes (drag) to a good set of pipes. other great ideas from the members here  :pop:
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 10:07:41 AM »
on my 1200 the most 'hop' I got was getting away from straight pipes (drag) to a good set of pipes.

Blasphemy! Drag pipes rule!
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Offline Pete_Vit

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Re: more hop
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2019, 11:06:15 AM »
on my 1200 the most 'hop' I got was getting away from straight pipes (drag) to a good set of pipes.

Blasphemy! Drag pipes rule!
  :hyst: I had 2 different set, I have to admit I liked 'em till I got my V&H's - 
93 XLH1200 - 96 FXSTS  -     AMA
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2019, 11:49:55 AM »
I actually put drag pipes ($99 from Jireh cycle) on my 88" RoadKing twin cam. They sounded awesome, worked ok because I do not lug my motors, quite the opposite, but of course, they were going to get me sent to jail. I still have them, and I really want to put them back on my hopped up 95" motor, just to see what happens. No drinking while riding with those because I'm pretty sure I'm going to get pulled over by popo immediately.
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2019, 11:51:33 AM »
OP, did your friend ever make a decision on the next step to add hop?
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Offline Adam76

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Re: more hop
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2019, 03:10:14 PM »
Cams will help up that even more.
Hossamania, do you mean just cams added to what he already has?  What cams would you suggest and how much of a difference are you expecting without increasing displacement or compression?
Thanks

Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 08:51:47 AM »
Cams will help up that even more.
Hossamania, do you mean just cams added to what he already has?  What cams would you suggest and how much of a difference are you expecting without increasing displacement or compression?
Thanks

I was adding to Rigid's response about upgrading the heads. Stock cams are designed to meet epa emissions and noise requirements, and be easier on the stock valve train. Upgrading the heads allows the heads to reach more of their potential. I can't give you actual horsepower numbers and how much increase their will be, I can only tell you that cams will increase the power, but also improve the power band, more power earlier and longer, more "snap", if you will.
Two identical motors side by side, except for a difference in cams (properly chosen), the bike with cams will make more power.
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Offline doubletrouble

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Re: more hop
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 09:52:59 AM »
a friend has a 2004 883 with 1200 cyl (hd's) , no head work , straight pipes( i hate them too) stock carb/ac.wants to know
how much more hop(his words) he would get with a carb change.   thanks Al     :nix:

Always work on what's holding the motor back. Working on anything else is a waste of time and money.

In lotsa dyno testing of carb swaps, we've found the stock CV40 to start costing significant power in the 90-95hp range. Below that, swapping the carb does next to nothing for you.

So when everything else about the build is capable of those kinds of numbers, the carb starts being the constraint, and that's when it makes sense to change it.

If you've got stock 883 heads, and a stock air cleaner, and stock cams, there ain't no way in Hades you're anywhere near that level.

Work on what's holding the motor back.
   well said.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 11:47:58 AM »
Cams will help up that even more.
Hossamania, do you mean just cams added to what he already has?  What cams would you suggest and how much of a difference are you expecting without increasing displacement or compression?
Thanks

I was adding to Rigid's response about upgrading the heads. Stock cams are designed to meet epa emissions and noise requirements, and be easier on the stock valve train. Upgrading the heads allows the heads to reach more of their potential. I can't give you actual horsepower numbers and how much increase their will be, I can only tell you that cams will increase the power, but also improve the power band, more power earlier and longer, more "snap", if you will.
Two identical motors side by side, except for a difference in cams (properly chosen), the bike with cams will make more power.

And to your question, I have not worked on any sportsters, but yes, just adding cams to what he currently has will add more "hop" than changing carbs would.
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Offline Adam76

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Re: more hop
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 07:42:17 PM »
Cams will help up that even more.
I was adding to Rigid's response about upgrading the heads. Stock cams are designed to meet epa emissions and noise requirements, and be easier on the stock valve train. Upgrading the heads allows the heads to reach more of their potential. I can't give you actual horsepower numbers and how much increase their will be, I can only tell you that cams will increase the power, but also improve the power band, more power earlier and longer, more "snap", if you will.
Two identical motors side by side, except for a difference in cams (properly chosen), the bike with cams will make more power.

Hossamania, this doesn't reflect the testing and dyno sheets uve researched for stage  1200s vs adding cams only.  Most if not ALL of the cams lost TQ below around 4000rpm and the only real gains in HP were above 5000rpm?

What bolt in cams only are you referring to that add power "earlier and longer"?

I'm gong through the the same process (see my other thread) so I'm vey interested.
Thanks

Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 08:34:23 PM »
Well Adam, I have not worked on any sportsters, or done any real research on them, so you know more than I do at this point. I have to admit that I was just assuming cams would increase power as they do in every other Harley motor, and was responding originally to the OP's question about more "hop".
Are you saying that there is no advantage to changing cams in an 883 to 1200 conversion with stock heads, or that has had headwork done? Seems counterintuitive to what I have learned on this site and with my own big twin motors.
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Offline Adam76

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Re: more hop
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2019, 12:47:36 AM »
Well Adam, I have not worked on any sportsters, or done any real research on them, so you know more than I do at this point. I have to admit that I was just assuming cams would increase power as they do in every other Harley motor, and was responding originally to the OP's question about more "hop".
Are you saying that there is no advantage to changing cams in an 883 to 1200 conversion with stock heads, or that has had headwork done? Seems counterintuitive to what I have learned on this site and with my own big twin motors.
Apologies, yes you are right.  If it is a true 883 - 1200 conversion,  then I would expect cams would definitely  make more of a difference than say just a cam swap in a stage 1   1200...  but to get a real idea of the exact gains cams wold make the OP would have to talk to one of the vendors like Hammer Performance or NHRS who do sportster upgrades for a living.  👍
 

Offline Hossamania

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Re: more hop
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2019, 05:09:51 AM »
That is where I would start. Go with the guys that really know.
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