Author Topic: Fun With Tensioners  (Read 2110 times)

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Offline ScottFree

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Fun With Tensioners
« on: December 03, 2018, 06:57:56 AM »
Finally got around to doing the cam-chain-tensioner upgrade on my '04 Road King. We last inspected them at 38K, concluded they should be replaced at 60K. Got it into the shop a bit over 56K.

Outboard tensioner still looks pretty good:



Inboard one, not so great:



Is that a crack I see toward the right side of the pad?

Anyway, with cams, bearings, etc., still looking good and me happy with the bike's performance (it's got the SE 95" stage II kit with SE203 cams), all we're planning to do is install the SE cam plate with hydraulic tensioners and upgraded oil pump, along with new lifters on general principle.

I am rather happy the two-up ride to the Carolinas that the wife and I had planned for last August got rained out (we took the Toyota instead, and I rented a Triumph Tiger for the two days that it wasn't pouring). Not sure what shape that inboard tensioner would be in after another couple thousand miles.

Offline koko3052

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 08:00:20 AM »
I'd say just in time!  :up:

Offline Armin

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 08:55:26 AM »
I wouldn't even think about using these worn tensioner shoes, the inner is cracked and belongs to the trash bin and the outer ain't good for more than 5k. The chapest way to restore the camplate is to use Cyco shoes.

Armin.
Nothing can ruin a Man's day faster than an Almost-Takeoff!

Offline gonenorth

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 06:31:18 PM »
I'm amazed the old style tensioners lasted that long!  Good call on going to the upgrade kit.  The couple of bikes with the new hydraulic tensioners and rolled steel chain I have opened up to replace cams have shown very little wear.  :up:

Offline CarlosGGodfrog

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 08:59:19 PM »
I have been told that the roller chain with spring tensioners wears as good as the hydraulic setup. With both you get slight wear at the chain edges, then the rollers take over and don't wear. Comments ?

Offline Tireman

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 03:26:10 AM »
I'd install Cyco pads and roll another 14 years if you've been happy with it! That plate and pump upgrade isn't all that really.
1984 FLHS 80" 57/61.....2009 Street Glide Mega Flo 124" 152/154

Offline prodrag1320

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 03:56:45 AM »
the outer pad is not in good shape and shows why the early tensioners should be replaced with cyco shoes,hyd conversion or a gear drive from mile one.most people just look at the overall wear on them,but if you look at the "pip" marks,this starts at about 3-5K miles.the material that comes off these is harder than the aluminum and starts scoaring the pump & plate at very low miles

Offline Hillside Motorcycle

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 08:47:38 AM »
Cyco shoes are what we use.
We've seen the need for shoe replacement as soon as 1200 miles, but have witnessed one come in, untouched, with 131,00 on the clock.
30-40K seems the norm.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline CndUltra88

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 04:52:49 AM »
I have been told that the roller chain with spring tensioners wears as good as the hydraulic setup. With both you get slight wear at the chain edges, then the rollers take over and don't wear. Comments ?

I think the answer to part of your question is in the second photo of an original version of tensioners.
Have not seen anyone's (nor mine) hydrolic tensioners to disprove your theory.
Rob
Infantryman Terry Street
End of Tour April,4,2008 Panjwayi district Afghanistan

Offline MIKEL

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 02:45:35 PM »
Where did all the plastic go......?


                                                                                                     MIKE

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 08:28:24 AM »
Where did all the plastic go......?


                                                                                                     MIKE
Through the pump :turd:

Offline MIKEL

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 10:28:32 AM »
Where did all the plastic go......?


                                                                                                     MIKE
Through the pump :turd:



Piston coolers too......?

Offline FXDBI

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 12:22:46 PM »
Where did all the plastic go......?


                                                                                                     MIKE
Through the pump :turd:



Piston coolers too......?

Yup..  Bob

Offline ScottFree

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2018, 05:51:54 AM »
If I were in a position to do the work myself, I'd probably just install the Cyco pads, figuring that if the OEM compressed camel dung lasted this long, the Cyco pads should take me well past 100K. But, with the replacement hip only a month old (and not having a bike lift or a heater for the garage), I decided to have my local indy shop do this one. When added to the cost of shop labor, the SE cam plate kit doesn't seem to make the job all that much more expensive. And the shop guy says I will appreciate the improved scavenging from the SE oil pump.

Hopefully all the "nibs" from the tensioner pads wound up in the oil filter. For whatever reason, I didn't look at the back side of the original cam plate to see if the oil pump was scored up. I read somewhere (on HTT) that the hydraulic tensioner shoes are made out of a different material that lasts longer and doesn't shed big chunks.

The SE kit gives you a roller chain for the primary cam drive (the outboard one that's easy to reach), but still uses the multi-plate "silent" chain for the secondary drive, because the "sprockets" are machined into the cams. Such is life. Still figuring it will last me well past 100K miles.

Fun fact: apparently there's nothing inherently wrong about using a multi-plate cam drive chain--BMW switched from roller type to multi-plate (they call it "toothed") for their new 1250 boxer. Go figure.

BTW, the bike will take a lot less than 14 more years to accumulate its next 56K miles--I bought it five years ago with a whopping 13K on the odometer and have been averaging over 8K a year since then (despite its sharing the garage with other bikes). So I'm probably about five and a half years from 100K.


Offline MIKEL

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2018, 09:56:47 AM »
From what I have observed over the years the more miles you put over the shorter period of time the stock shoes lasted longer than the low miles over a longer time shoe. Could be by sitting the lube oil dissipated off the chain and caused a dry start condition?
Between 1999-2006 Harley Davidson got away with a very inferior design. The amount of debris those inferior shoes left behind caused more damage eventually like out of spec oil pump/backing plates and scuffed cylinders due to plugged piston cooling jets.

                                                                                                        MIKE

Offline barny7655

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2018, 01:46:04 PM »
any one have a  CYCO  parts supplier for the pads, cheers
riding since 62, BSA bantum the first bike

Offline 92flhtcu

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 02:32:00 PM »
Barney-The Twin Power pads are mfg by Cyco, Cali Phil can set you up
Need a bigger garage

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 03:03:59 PM »
Barney-The Twin Power pads are mfg by Cyco, Cali Phil can set you up

California Phil set me up. He has the tool to replace them as well if you need it.
No shirt, no shoes, and I still get service. Why?
Girl, look at this body!

Offline barny7655

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 04:13:08 PM »
thanks,
riding since 62, BSA bantum the first bike

Offline smoserx1

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2018, 07:14:30 AM »
I actually got about 70K out of a set of these tensioners.  Replaced them (there was no other option other than these at the time) and figured the second set might do better since the chain was supposedly "polished" from prior use.  Nope, second set went quicker.  I did the full conversion cam thing after that.  I think you are smart to go with hydraulic tensioners.

Offline Hillside Motorcycle

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2018, 03:53:53 AM »
If I were in a position to do the work myself, I'd probably just install the Cyco pads, figuring that if the OEM compressed camel dung lasted this long, the Cyco pads should take me well past 100K. But, with the replacement hip only a month old (and not having a bike lift or a heater for the garage), I decided to have my local indy shop do this one. When added to the cost of shop labor, the SE cam plate kit doesn't seem to make the job all that much more expensive. And the shop guy says I will appreciate the improved scavenging from the SE oil pump.

Hopefully all the "nibs" from the tensioner pads wound up in the oil filter. For whatever reason, I didn't look at the back side of the original cam plate to see if the oil pump was scored up. I read somewhere (on HTT) that the hydraulic tensioner shoes are made out of a different material that lasts longer and doesn't shed big chunks.

The SE kit gives you a roller chain for the primary cam drive (the outboard one that's easy to reach), but still uses the multi-plate "silent" chain for the secondary drive, because the "sprockets" are machined into the cams. Such is life. Still figuring it will last me well past 100K miles.

Fun fact: apparently there's nothing inherently wrong about using a multi-plate cam drive chain--BMW switched from roller type to multi-plate (they call it "toothed") for their new 1250 boxer. Go figure.

BTW, the bike will take a lot less than 14 more years to accumulate its next 56K miles--I bought it five years ago with a whopping 13K on the odometer and have been averaging over 8K a year since then (despite its sharing the garage with other bikes). So I'm probably about five and a half years from 100K.

The Cyco shoes seem to be good, but the cam chain is now polished free(or almost free) of manufacturing burrs that the media tumbler missed.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline ScottFree

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Re: Fun With Tensioners--all's well that ends well
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2019, 07:53:56 AM »
Well, the Road King is home. I've managed to ride it about a hundred miles since picking it up (the weather has been less than cooperative). All in all, we replaced the stock cam plate with the SE plate (hydraulic tensioners), new lifters (Feulings, mostly because it's an indy shop--I assume they're at least as good as the stock parts), rocker shaft locking devices (I had meant to specify Rockouts, but I was still on pain pills from the hip surgery and guess I slurred my words a bit, so I ended up with the Other Kind) and apparently some updates to the rocker-box breather valves (part of the gasket kit). Also replaced and set the steering head bearings.

So how's it ride? Not much different. Valve-train clattering is diminished. Biggest thing I notice is the disappearance of a whining noise, rather like an electric motor, when I back off to upshift. I started noticing this noise about 10K miles ago, and since it's gone I wonder if it might have been the worn inboard tensioner.

The other thing I notice is just how much I like this motorcycle...  :bike:

Offline motorhogman

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2019, 08:01:16 AM »
any one have a  CYCO  parts supplier for the pads, cheers

California Phil's is where I got mine along with the jig to install them..
where's the points and condenser ?
Tom / aka motor

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2019, 08:16:30 AM »
any one have a  CYCO  parts supplier for the pads, cheers

California Phil's is where I got mine along with the jig to install them..

Same here.
No shirt, no shoes, and I still get service. Why?
Girl, look at this body!

Offline jamminhd2000

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Re: Fun With Tensioners
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2019, 08:48:53 AM »
Where did all the plastic go......?


                                                                                                     MIKE
Through the pump :turd:



Piston coolers too......?

Yup..  Bob

Yup the pieces get stuck in the piston coolers....I've seen it first hand a couple of different times....jimmy