Author Topic: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage  (Read 681 times)

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Offline NCHeritage07

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Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« on: January 06, 2019, 10:23:10 AM »
I am considering swapping to forward controls but I don't want to spend big money on aftermarket parts until I can see if I like the positioning.  I understand that peg mounts from an FX are direct replacements.  First question is whether or not that is true and how many of my parts can/will be reused for the swap.

The other question is what drags next once the foot boards are out of the way?  And how much deeper of a lean causes the next highest part to touch?
On the days that I hold my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have pretty good days.  -RWH

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 03:03:22 PM »
Member Apehair (Rick) did just what you are asking about.  If you can't reach him by pm etc. I can get in touch with him for you.

He's a more aggressive rider than the average cruiser rider and IIRC he was still disappointed with the limited lean angle compared to other softails he owned previously. 

I've seen guys put longer fork tubes from other softail models on a Heritage along with the pegs...then your rock'n.

The rear needs the laden SAG set to the minimal side (3/4"-7/8") and/or modded for slightly more ride height.

Offline Maj

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2019, 06:12:10 PM »
I have a 2005 FLSTN I swapped out to pegs.  Parts bolt right up. Cornering is definitely improved.  I can still drag the pegs with medium to aggressive cornering, but yeah, still a good improvement.

Around 2005 Harley changed the brackets for the forward controls making the pegs stick out even further.  So scour ebay for early 2000 bracketry.  Make sure you get a kickstand and brake pedal from the same era as your brackets.  Some short pegs would help cornering even more.

Offline borno

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2019, 03:11:29 AM »
I went the other way and put brackets and footboards from an '07 fatboy on my '07 fxst. I already had a fatboy brake pedal (need to change as well) the jiffystand swapped ok too. I wouldn't want to go back to pegs.

Offline NCHeritage07

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 08:29:04 PM »
I am gonna hold off on the control swap.  I shortened my shocks to raise the rear a little.  While doing this I was a new scrape on the primary cover.  I am pretty certain that its a new scar and it happened on my most recent ride.  So this may answer the question about what hits the ground after the footboards.

If raising the rear doesn't get me where I want to be then I will just slow down a little or lean off the bike more.
On the days that I hold my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have pretty good days.  -RWH

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 09:55:52 AM »
I am gonna hold off on the control swap.  I shortened my shocks to raise the rear a little.  While doing this I was a new scrape on the primary cover.  I am pretty certain that its a new scar and it happened on my most recent ride.  So this may answer the question about what hits the ground after the footboards.

If raising the rear doesn't get me where I want to be then I will just slow down a little or lean off the bike more.

Curious what shocks you have as you mention shortening them.

Obviously the higher the ride height the father up on the primary cover the ground contact area will be especially if the suspension isn't compressed much when the drag/touch occurs.  I have a stainless scrub pad on my Deuce,  without it the bottom edge of the derby cover will scrape.

Because of the modest lean angle I move around more on Harleys than I do on sport bikes.  My Deuce usesthe whole tread surface to the edge on most rear tire brand/models but I still have to move around a lot to avoid dragging more than a light touch when carrying an aggressive pace.

When you hang-off its necessary to make a conscious effort to keep the bike stood up or you will get a minimal improvement.  I emulate a drunk slowly falling off a bar stool on corner entry when hustling the bike.

Offline NCHeritage07

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 07:37:40 PM »
they are stock shocks as far as I know but the lowering kit is still installed on them.  It was said that these are adjustable all the way to stock height.  I ran them all the way up and, in that position, I was still scrubbing.  I assume that my mounting is the same as shocks without lowering kits, there are two nuts that squeeze a rubber grommet into the frame. 

Originally could only move the adjustment nuts up to the flat spots for a wrench on the threaded shaft.  What I did was remove the nut that is closest to the shock and replace it with a spacer that covers flats and butts against the 1-1/16 nut on the shock housing.  I didn't take any measurements but this effectively shortened my shocks.  I may have shortened them too much but it will be moderately easy to add another spacer/washer.

It is noticably taller when I sit on it but, again, I didn't take any measurements before changing.

What I wish I had checked while reinstalling is/was the swingarm travel in the unloaded state.  What I am wondering is how much shock/spring compression exists before the rear tire ever touch the ground.  If they are compressed a lot then I could run out of shock or spring travel before swingarm travel.
On the days that I hold my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have pretty good days.  -RWH

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 04:45:48 AM »
If you don't need the lowering kit, you could remove it and gain some more adjustment to raise the rear a bit more. You would be assured that your swingarm is not bottoming out and rubbing the tire. You should not run out of swing either way on the swingarm by removing the lowering kit. Double check your belt adjustment.
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 07:02:18 AM »
Most shocks have enough travel to allow ride height to be raised some without "bottoming the shock" before the swingarm crossbar hits the rubber frame stop.  My Deuce has 4" of swingarm travel from fully extended to bottomed.  The axle to shaft ratio is about 3.2-1 so shock adjustments are multiplied over 3 times at the axle.

You could measure the bike against a stock bike to know roughly where your at.  If you measure the shock length,  I can measure some shocks and let you know.

The only lowering kits that can go as short as stock are ones that require taking the shock apart and replacing the shaft.

Offline Hilly13

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 12:29:00 AM »
I am gonna hold off on the control swap.  I shortened my shocks to raise the rear a little.  While doing this I was a new scrape on the primary cover.  I am pretty certain that its a new scar and it happened on my most recent ride.  So this may answer the question about what hits the ground after the footboards.

If raising the rear doesn't get me where I want to be then I will just slow down a little or lean off the bike more.

Curious what shocks you have as you mention shortening them.

Obviously the higher the ride height the father up on the primary cover the ground contact area will be especially if the suspension isn't compressed much when the drag/touch occurs.  I have a stainless scrub pad on my Deuce,  without it the bottom edge of the derby cover will scrape.

Because of the modest lean angle I move around more on Harleys than I do on sport bikes.  My Deuce usesthe whole tread surface to the edge on most rear tire brand/models but I still have to move around a lot to avoid dragging more than a light touch when carrying an aggressive pace.

When you hang-off its necessary to make a conscious effort to keep the bike stood up or you will get a minimal improvement.  I emulate a drunk slowly falling off a bar stool on corner entry when hustling the bike.

Bit of a highjack but did you make it or buy it mate?
Just because its said don't make it so

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 06:42:51 AM »
On a softail you have 2 bolt holes at the back end of the lower frame rail that you can use to attach a shoe spoon shaped shield.

My primary cover had already been heliarc'd and re-road surfaced with a decent size scrap so I just shaped a piece of stainless to fit,  tapered the leading edge,  cut some adhesive bite grooves in the back and bonded it with JB.  It last longer than I expected (on#2) until you hit something irregular fairly hard.

With the roads you have I'd make a spoon shield if possible on your bike and use rubber between it and the primary cover. 
I plan to make a shield if/when I but a scratch free primary cover on.

Offline Hilly13

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2019, 03:44:23 AM »
On a softail you have 2 bolt holes at the back end of the lower frame rail that you can use to attach a shoe spoon shaped shield.

My primary cover had already been heliarc'd and re-road surfaced with a decent size scrap so I just shaped a piece of stainless to fit,  tapered the leading edge,  cut some adhesive bite grooves in the back and bonded it with JB.  It last longer than I expected (on#2) until you hit something irregular fairly hard.

With the roads you have I'd make a spoon shield if possible on your bike and use rubber between it and the primary cover. 
I plan to make a shield if/when I but a scratch free primary cover on.
Thanks mate  :up:
Just because its said don't make it so

Offline NCHeritage07

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2019, 05:46:55 PM »
After being away for 2 weeks, I finally went for a ride with the raised rear suspension.  I was successful in raising the boards and they only scrubbed once.  Even that scrub was with a dip in a curve.  But I also created a few new characteristics that I don't like.

1. It is stiff.  But I had the preload set to full pressure to avoid bottoming when it was lowered.  So, I think that is easy to correct.
2. The angle changed enough to put my head far enough above the windshield that I get a lot more buffetting than before.
3. It seems to take more pressure on the bars to keep it in a lean.  Previously I only needed to press on the bars to start a turn then it was pretty neutral through the turn.  Now I am pushing hard on the low-side bar to keep it leaned.  I am guessing that the slight change in the rake angle caused this.  My tire pressures are where they were.

I think I am going to add another spacer to bring the height down some and see how it goes. 
On the days that I hold my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have pretty good days.  -RWH

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2019, 09:18:13 PM »
1.  Shouldn't be any stiffer than it was unless springs were changed or preload was changed to reduce laden SAG to less than 3/4".  Angle of swingarm changed very little.
 
2.  OK.

3.  Higher ride height takes less effort to initiate and maintain a turn...physics.  Less rake and trail should have an unnoticeable effect opposite of what you describe.

Offline NCHeritage07

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 05:14:42 PM »
Tonight I installed a pair of 2 piece collars that effectively lengthen the shock but 1/2 inch.  With these installed the swingarm is less than an 1/8 inch to the high side of the frame and nearly even but just slightly on the high side when I sit on it.  And it seems to have some of its flex back. 

I haven't measured the total shock length but from the cross member to the nut that allows us to adjust preload I have the aluminum/rubber mounting grommet plus very close to 1 inch of total spacer.  I would assume that even with the frame is where the swingarm would be on a stock bike.  But I don't know if that alignment would be with or without a rider.
On the days that I hold my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have pretty good days.  -RWH

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Forward controls from an FX on a '07 Heritage
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2019, 08:48:08 AM »
Changing the shock length only should have no effect on short compression travel ride quality.  Making the shocks longer than stock,  lowering the bike will have an adverse effect on ride quality as the swingarm crossbar with contact the frame bump stop/rubber more often and harder.

A softail doesn't have rising rate suspension, linkages etc.  The shock shaft to axle travel ratio will stay basically the same through the entire range of wheel travel or ride heights.

Need to set the laden SAG at a proper amount then alter the shock length for ride height adjustment.

Laden SAG is the difference between wheel of the ground to rider on bike feet on pegs/boards,  measured at the axle straight up to a good reference. 

Spring preload on stock shocks can be adjusted to set ride height/laden SAG anywhere from 3/4" to 1-1/2" or so depending on rider weight.  I typically set the laden SAG around 7/8" - 1".  More SAG will allow more travel above ride height which allows the wheel to maintain contact with the road when the bike is light on the wheels or dropping down into low spots/holes which then gives the suspension a longer softer return into travel from near or close to topped out position.

I am assuming you talking about comparing the similarly shaped frame and swingarm side plates.  My Deuce is raised slightly from stock,  the swingarm is 1/2" from matching the frame when parked,  closer but not matching with rider on bike and lines up when the suspension loads or hits a bump.  I believe most stock bikes are lined up or close with rider weight on bike. 

Sounds like your still in the ground/lowered and need to determine/measure what your laden SAG is.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 08:52:12 AM by 04 SE DEUCE »