REPRINT FROM OLD HTT: JohnS_ QUESTIONS ABOUT SE EVO PERFORMANCE HEADS ON A FXR2

[ClassicRider2002]

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS A REPRINT TOPIC FROM "OLD" HTT

I have saved many great topical discussions as "links" over the years and would hate to see these lost, so I am reprinting this TOPIC here, which may "perhaps" help some.

TOPIC:  JohnS_ QUESTIONS ABOUT SE EVO PERFORMANCE HEADS ON A FXR2  02-27-06


From: ClassicRider2002  (Original Message) Sent: 2/27/2006 8:28 PM   Message 1 of 8 in Discussion

I was wondering perhaps to gain some advice and input from John S. as well as others, as to what the thoughts about running a pair of Screaming Eagle Performance Heads on an FXR2 would be.  Part number 16854-98A.  By the way does this part number reflect the very last modification for the SE EVO Performance Heads?

FXR2 currently has:

~~Vance and Hines 2 into 1 Pro Pipe
~~3010 V-Thunder Cam
~~CV carb of which I rejetted the carb  with a Sportster Needle 27094-88, 45 Slow Jet and left the 175 main jet.  I also modifed the air filter.

I am very happy with the bike's performance currently even without the modified heads, this bike will be a keeper for me....

Please be aware that I have NO desire to raise compression above what the heads would result in with the "bolting" on of these SE EVO Performance Heads....and based upon keeping my stock pistons and making no alterations there....Would it be fair to assume that I should expect around a 9.3 compression right? ? ? ?   OR will it be more? ? ? ?    I certainly am not interested in raising the compression for this bike above 9.5.

John (and others as well):

1)  Will/Would the addition of these particular SE EVO Performance Heads result in lost reliablity of the bike?

2)  What would I expect to the additional gain to be with performance with the addition of these SE EVO Performance Heads, torque, or HP given the parameters of the current set up?

3) Am I understanding "correctly" that these SE EVO Performance Heads will become much more difficult to locate in the very near future or is this a myth?  Does the MOTO CO have plans to discontinue building them.....currently I see them being offered within the 2006 HD Catalog on page 520 HD# 16854-98A (black highlighted) for $930.00 assuming you could get them from "Jinni" for 20% less the cost would be approximately $750.00.

4) What would be a very fair price to pay for a set of these SE EVO Performance Heads?

5) What I am also really after here is wondering what kinds of "negatives" would I experience with the addition of the above heads to my bike be....would I have for example problems with rocker box, cylinder, cylinder heads leaking because of the use?  Would the use of these be a "good" thing for the engine....or a "bad" thing....does that make sense.....

Please be aware that I am definitely not interested in changing out my pistons....of course the time for that will come when I reach 70-100k and it's time to work on the cylinder walls and so forth.....

It would be great to receive an overview from everyone here as to thoughts and ideas......but when you do so......

I welcome input and advice on this matter.....regards.....

Riding elevation is at 5,000 - 11,000 feet 90% of the time....Solo rider 90% of the time, and the reason for selecting the 3010 was to get a bit more "umph" quicker as I roll on throttle all be it that it is only a "bolt" in cam......I enjoy the "torque" aspect of this particular bike given that cam....

Thank you and I really appreciate the input John (as well as others).....and for the time it takes to post your thoughts on this for me.....
Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider2002]

From: JohnS_Rosamond_CA Sent: 2/27/2006 11:11 PM   Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
Although I appreciate being singled out for advice, I haven't run the S.E. heads ( nor on any customer bikes).  However, I do have a couple of comments (as always).  By putting a set of performance heads on your bike, you should have just as much reliability as you did without them.  I believe that Harley states that these heads increase compression to like 9.5:1 (that's actually a very nice middle of the road ratio).  Exactly how much power you'll get depends on your specific set up - so I don't know.  Is it possible that these heads might go obsolete?  Yes, it is.  Harley dropped Shovel head parts like a hot potato in the past.  The Evo was itself a very popular bike though, and it may be that rather than drop the whole thing they may be in the middle of finding a manufacture to outsource the product (or it may be dropped completely - don't know).

About the only thing that I want to say (other than I don't know - ha ha), is that just putting on a set of performance heads will not guarantee stump pulling power and torque.  It may be that for the hundreds of dollars that you spend, you might only get a mild bump in Hp if your set up isn't done right.  So, bigger valves doesn't mean that you'll get more power.  My boss (back in the day), ported a set of Harley heads by hand and ran a Mikuni.  We were frequently able to shame people with the Edlebrock heads, manifold and carb set up.  So, one thing doesn't always guarantee another.  Best Wishes.....John S,  


From: JAMESP1232 Sent: 2/28/2006 6:01 AM   Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
Classic, right now on ebay the silver heads can be had for 510.00 +30.00 for shipping. Black heads are 585.00 + 30.00 s&h. I was told by HD of Atlanta that the MOCO was making no more of these and that thew still had Quite a few in stock(the MOCO) not HD Atlanta.
I was going to buy a set last week but when I talked to the Head man and told him what I wanted he recommended that I have a stock set modified.
I am going to change my VT 3010 to the new Extreme energy 5005 cam with .569 lift by V-Thunder.I ordered the proper spring set and cam and am sending the springs and heads to the Head man.You might want to pick up a set if SE at a good price. Talk to the guys at V-Thunder...They told me that with the 3010 cam that shaving unmodified stock heads for about an 8.9 to 9.2 would yield about all the good stuff you will will get from the 301o cam. I love my 3010,I just want to "do" the project.....good luck.,.,.,JAMESP


From: rdkng Sent: 2/28/2006 7:36 AM   Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
Classic, I like the SE heads.  They bolt right on, have no down sides, & produce about 9.5 CR, which I think is ideal. I'd ballpark maybe a 4-5 increase in hp and torque with them- nothing major, but you will feel some more thump, even down low on RPM scale..    I paid $650 for new black ones, and I easily highlighted them with a dremmel tool in 1 hour.
The advantages of keeping my stock heads stock for prosterity &  having very little down time were factors in my decision.  (plus I was at 64K, so I figured some new valve seals and all would be needed soon anyway)   
rdkng. 
 

From: Bouncer502 Sent: 2/28/2006 8:50 AM   Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
I think JohnS is pretty much correct. Larger valves does not all way mean more power. Larger valves in my opinion are better for higher rpms. Mostly i think the SE heads that raise the compression up from stock 8.5 to 9.5 is what give the motor more power. Higher compression builds power in a Harley motor. I bet giving the stock heads some porting and milling them down with good valves 3 0r 5 angle valve job will match the SE heads output. But to each their own what they want. 
 

From: JAMESP1232 Sent: 2/28/2006 10:03 AM   Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
I also am keeping all of my original stuff, heads jugs etc. I bought a set right here in the evo section from a member of HTT and will not do the teardown until I think I have everything on hand to rebuild...If things dont work out the way I want them to I will put it back like it is now....we seem to be a group that will tear into a perfectly good running motorcycle to try something new....Oh yeah, it is sunny and 64 and climbing right now so I am going to take a little ride this afternoon.,.,.,.,
   

From: martida01 Sent: 2/28/2006 3:27 PM   Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
I am very happy with the bike's performance currently even without the modified heads, this bike will be a keeper for me....
Please be aware that I am definitely not interested in changing out my pistons....of course the time for that will come when I reach 70-100k and it's time to work on the cylinder walls and so forth.....

My 2 cents (worth a cool nickle....inflation): Don't fix what ain't broken. Ride that FXR2 like you stole it.  When it decides to push oil out the bottom of the jugs, tear it down, and then do it up.   


From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 2/28/2006 5:08 PM   Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
Hello...

Thank you everyone for your input!!!!......

I had a local friend explain a bit more about what I was trying to figure out....I also determined that a true price for these heads would be around $605.00 inclusive of shipping. 

Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider2002]

While I realize this "THREAD" goes a ways back I feel the content warrants it being brought over here to the New HTT Site, hopefully it is helpful to others.

Anything added beyond this point is new information.

Regards,

"Classic"

[Flat Dog]

I just paid a little over $600 new for a set of evo SE heads. The combustion chamber, intake and exhaust ports come powder coated (WTF, Harley???!!!) so these will need to be cleaned up before use. I chose to polish the exhaust ports mirror smooth with didn't take long at all, but still should come that way from the factory. If screamin eagle is Harley's performance line, I shudder when I think about their regular goods and QC. HecheDeeTards.

I'll add to this after everything is buttoned up, and I have a chance for some test riding and maybe a real dyno tune if I can get the $ together.

[ClassicRider2002]

I just paid a little over $600 new for a set of evo SE heads. The combustion chamber, intake and exhaust ports come powder coated (WTF, Harley???!!!) so these will need to be cleaned up before use. I chose to polish the exhaust ports mirror smooth with didn't take long at all, but still should come that way from the factory. If screamin eagle is Harley's performance line, I shudder when I think about their regular goods and QC. HecheDeeTards.

Photo John~~

Hey take a look and review this link regarding the "valve seals"....you might wish to consider the recommendation, since you have purchased the "Screamin Eagle Heads" I thought you might like to be aware of something I actually posted earlier but might have been overlooked.  Not only is "TRAVELER'S" response which is some two years ago, interesting, but I have a personal friend who had quite a similiar expierence with the "valve seals" in his "Screamin Eagle Heads" which were also new and he unfortunately didn't know about this and had problems such as "TRAVELER" is mentioning below, in other words he would concur with "TRAVELERS" personal experience below and opt for modifying the "valve seals", should you decide to take action it's much easier to do so at this point than after they have already been installed:

TOPIC: JohnS_ Rosamond_CA  Question About EVO Engines 08-16-08   <~~~CLICK,VIEW,& READ


From: Traveler_733 Sent: 12/23/2006 3:53 PM
I ran professionally ported heads for about a year, They worked well, until a valve guide came loose and wallowed out the head. In the haste to get in more good weather riding, I installed SE heads. Out of the box. The SE heads are a good bang for the buck, and bolt on and then go twist the LOUD handle!!  They worked good too, BUT.. the valve giude seals are JUNK on SE heads, out of the box.  I was burning a quart of oil about every 1500 miles. So, the next winter rebuild, I put Cometic valve guide seals on. (you have to call Cometic for these, as the aren't cataloged) The SE heads use .530" guides. The Cometic seals install by hand, so I just used my valve spring compressor and changed them at the same time I installed Cometic .030 MLS head gaskets to get better squish.  These heads are installed on an S&S Stroker bottom end. I'm running the HI4-E ignition, and like the advance slope adjustment to dial out pinging.*
*UPDATE:
Notice that "Traveler's" comment above occurred nearly 2 years ago.....in essence his problem with the heads was only the "valve" seals so if you decide to do the "Screamin Eagle" heads make sure you decide how you feel about the "valve seals".  To take care of them before installing is just a few dollars vs afterwards and if you have a problem.....JUST thought I would take the time to write to you about this......it's your decision of course.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[Buddy WMC]

John,
See what I was discussing with you in our PM? Take steps now to insure that this problem does not occur. The B-Hive springs are about $100.00 and will not interfere with the Cometic Viton seals. I also checked the specs on your 5010 and am interested in those results vs my 5015. That cam switch to a little less duration may be just the ticket for my engine to pick up a little more torque.

[Roadhog96]

Good Morning Everyone...

I too would be interested in hearing about the 5010 performance. I just aquired a set of SE Heads for my 96 Roadking and presently doing research for the "perfect cam." I do plan to send the heads off to have them cleaned, CC-ed. and set up for what ever cam I chose. Thanks....

Roadhog96

[Flat Dog]

May be a bit before I can get it dyno'd, but (as much as I hate them) can give a seat of the pants report after some break in time. Just waiting on a set of roller rocker arms to come in, the bike will be initially done and ready for tuning/break in. Hopefully the arms will arrive today. At the great price I paid for new TP forged rollers ($180), I can wait a bit!