Crank Bearing Walking

[Barrett]

I saw a post from someone who said the crank bearing walked and caused a lot of damage.

I see that in 2011 Harley added two bolts (PN 703B) to secure the bearing.

Wouldn't it be better to add a groove and use the clip (PN 35114-02) like the left side?

[Buffalo]

Where would you put the groove? The right bearing is flush with the case. The two buttonhead screws are the most economical way (to HD the only way!!) to fix another design problem. They (HD) could  redesign the case for a snap ring or make a retaining plate with 4-5 screws, but why spend the money, right. Buffalo

[Barrett]

The bearing isn't flush on my 08 FXDF.. There's room for a groove to use the clip that would hold the bearing closer.. Using the bolts on mine would let it walk a little more than the clip. I would feel better having the clip and if I had to go with bolts I think one would work fine.

[Admiral Akbar]

Not sure the HD snap ring is the solution..


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,86443.msg978473.html#msg978473

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do...

[Barrett]

Not sure the HD snap ring is the solution..


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,86443.msg978473.html#msg978473

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do...

That sucks..Do you think the bolts would of stopped it from moving?
I have the new S&S 3 piece crank going in so that should help..

[Admiral Akbar]

Not sure the HD snap ring is the solution..


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,86443.msg978473.html#msg978473

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do...

That sucks..Do you think the bolts would of stopped it from moving?
I have the new S&S 3 piece crank going in so that should help..

I'd at do at least 2 screws...  The bearing diameter is roughly 2.58 inches.. I'm currently thinking about replacing the snap-ring with a standard one 2 5/8 but they are 0.093 thick.. There is a a 2 5/8 spiral lock that might work also. They would all need the grove widened to 0.103 Currently the grove is about 0.062 and the HD ring is about 0.040.

I do think that some of the walking was caused by crank runout..  I'm going with a new 3 piece SnS crank also..

[rbabos]

I'd be more concerned why it walked. Those suckers are in there with about .004 interference or should be close to it. If the bearings have been changed out a few times and not preheated the case to reduce metal draw then this press is lost. Bearing clearance increases slightly too.
Ron

[04 SE Deuce]

Hoban Bros. machines a groove.

[HD/Wrench]

I have only seen this one time and it was on a 110. We remove both pinion bearings replaced with the SE bearings. Now when I measured the bore of the case it was right in spec. I heated the case so it had a light press in. Let it cool put it back together. As far as I know the bike has never had the issue again..  With aluminum and its high expansion rate I feel heat is your friend when pressing items into the case like bearings or races.

You could coat the bearing with either red or green But we never do and its not a common issue. And yes all the new ones have two 1/4 20 button head screws.

[Admiral Akbar]

I'd be more concerned why it walked. Those suckers are in there with about .004 interference or should be close to it. If the bearings have been changed out a few times and not preheated the case to reduce metal draw then this press is lost. Bearing clearance increases slightly too.
Ron

For me I'd expect that 146 fp tq and 0.007 runout.. If I look closely at the rollers, I can see where they rubbed the inside of the outer race pretty hard on the ends.. Fit on the bearing was way tight.. I had to remove it to PC the cases. Cases heated to 240 for each operation..

I found 2 9/16 snap rings but which is closer to the bearing hole size but will probably use the spiral locks. I can just swing the case on my lathe..

[Barrett]

The thicker snap ring sounds like a good plan to me. I want a solid engine and I don't like how that bearing is able to walk.

[Geezer_Glider]

Max, grind a HSS boring tool and use your mill.
Just saying,
R Meyer

[Admiral Akbar]

Max, grind a HSS boring tool and use your mill.
Just saying,
R Meyer

I can do it either way.. Why do you think the mill is better?  Either way I need to grind a cutting tool.. Balance?

[04 SE Deuce]

I'm guessing the spiral lock is thinner,  requiring a narrower groove.  I would think given a proper fit in the groove the spiral lock would be plenty sufficient...if not you likely have other problems.  I'd go for the narrower groove.   -Rick

[Admiral Akbar]

I'm guessing the spiral lock is thinner,  requiring a narrower groove.  I would think given a proper fit in the groove the spiral lock would be plenty sufficient...if not you likely have other problems.  I'd go for the narrower groove.   -Rick

It snot.

[Geezer_Glider]

Max, are you gonna mount on a piloted face plate or just grab the bearing bore with jaws? Yeah either will work if you spin the lathe slow. Don't know how concentric that groove has to be to the bore, maybe not real critical. What do you think side loaded the bearing? Crank spread? If so wonder what it did to the bearing bore in the case and if a heavy case would hold up better.
just saying,
R Meyer

[SP33DY]

I made a piloted face plate that I put on the rotary table in the mill. I cut the snap ring grooves with a carbide slitting saw. Smalley Steel Rings is a good source for the snap rings:

Smalley Steel Ring Company
555 Oakwood Road • Lake Zurich, IL 60047
Main: 1 (847) 719-5900
Fax: 1 (847) 719-5999
sales@smalley.com • www.smalley.com

[Admiral Akbar]

Max, are you gonna mount on a piloted face plate or just grab the bearing bore with jaws? Yeah either will work if you spin the lathe slow. Don't know how concentric that groove has to be to the bore, maybe not real critical. What do you think side loaded the bearing? Crank spread? If so wonder what it did to the bearing bore in the case and if a heavy case would hold up better.
just saying,
R Meyer

Well, Right now the idea is to use a 10 inch aluminum faceplate I made for spinning heads.. I was going to pick up the bearing hole, the 2 case dowels and a couple case bolt holes in the mill (DRO) then transfer these to the faceplate.. I figure I could hit it within a couple thou easy..  If off, open the holes up a little and tap it in..   I think there isn't enough lip to grab the bearing bore with.. Maybe with a set of soft jaws.. There are 2 ring groves that need cut. Or at least I think I should cut both.. I doubt the bearing will walk in tho..   The motor has SnS cases, it may be that there isn't enough flex in the case that caused bearing to walk out.. I do believe that the run-out is what the caused the walk. Force on the rod wanted to push the flywheels apart and while doing that the force would have pushed outward on bearings.. Timken pair has a nice wide clip that wont move in a steel insert (SnS cases) I've not removed the right bearing yet but you can see where the rollers to the outside rubbed the outer race pretty good..

Add: Forgot.. Thanks for the discussion.. 

[Admiral Akbar]

I made a piloted face plate that I put on the rotary table in the mill. I cut the snap ring grooves with a carbide slitting saw. Smalley Steel Rings is a good source for the snap rings:

Smalley Steel Ring Company
555 Oakwood Road • Lake Zurich, IL 60047
Main: 1 (847) 719-5900
Fax: 1 (847) 719-5999
sales@smalley.com • www.smalley.com

This is an excellent idea.. I would need to build a faceplate to fit the rotary table tho..

Smalley has a nice selection of Spirolox.. The WHM-256 looks like it would work (maybe a little overkill). WHT-256?

These guys don't look like they sell to small customers.. Probably need to buy 1000.. 

Thanks for the info..

[04 SE Deuce]

Tell them you need some samples of a couple styles to try in order to determine which are going to work for you.   -Rick

[rageglide]

Samples!  Been there done that.  Did that many times when doing mechanical design.  Best if you have a shop/business name to use.  But not always required nor do they always care.

Cool idea to use a spiralock.

[barny7655]

centre it on the mill with a DOG then use rotary table , your done , easy as, circlip , cheers Barny

[Admiral Akbar]

centre it on the mill with a DOG then use rotary table , your done , easy as, circlip , cheers Barny

But my dog only has 3 legs and he don't fit on the rotary fable.


Pull the crankcase dowel pin holes plus a couple case bolt holes on the case with the DRO and transferred them to my face plate.. Used a boring head to get 0.562..

[attach=0]

Had to trim the dowel pin holes with a scraper and got the bearing bore within 0.002..

[attach=1]

Looks like I'll use a standard 2 9/16 snap ring.. Outside only.. Leave the inner alone as there isn't much material on the inside bearing bore and the bearing wanted to wander out..

[04 SE Deuce]

 

He's not lying about the 3 legged dog.  Plus he likes him too much to machine a groove in any of the pooch's orifices. 

[SP33DY]

This is an excellent idea.. I would need to build a faceplate to fit the rotary table tho..

Smalley has a nice selection of Spirolox.. The WHM-256 looks like it would work (maybe a little overkill). WHT-256?

These guys don't look like they sell to small customers.. Probably need to buy 1000.. 

Thanks for the info..

I use Smalley  VH-262

I think I bought 100.

Lathe /face plate arrangement is fine, as well as mill/rotary table/face plate, what ever you are most comfortable with.

I used the DRO on the mill to pick up and reverse engineer the bearing center line, bolt and dowel locations to make the faceplate. Use flathead allen screws to secure the case to the faceplate. The faceplate is a light press fit on the spindle in my rotary table, and I use bolts and t-slot nuts to secure the faceplate.

[Admiral Akbar]

This is an excellent idea.. I would need to build a faceplate to fit the rotary table tho..

Smalley has a nice selection of Spirolox.. The WHM-256 looks like it would work (maybe a little overkill). WHT-256?

These guys don't look like they sell to small customers.. Probably need to buy 1000.. 

Thanks for the info..

I use Smalley  VH-262

I think I bought 100.

Lathe /face plate arrangement is fine, as well as mill/rotary table/face plate, what ever you are most comfortable with.

I used the DRO on the mill to pick up and reverse engineer the bearing center line, bolt and dowel locations to make the faceplate. Use flathead allen screws to secure the case to the faceplate. The faceplate is a light press fit on the spindle in my rotary table, and I use bolts and t-slot nuts to secure the faceplate.

( Sniped the pics)

Thanks for the additional info.. The main reason for using the faceplate is that I already had it. It's got a D1-4 backing plate mounted to the plate so it's an easy setup..  It's great to see what others are doing to get the machining done.. Again, thanks for sharing..

Max

[gabbyduffy]

     How is the bearing project coming along?

[Admiral Akbar]

     How is the bearing project coming along?

Done.

Bearing in the case..

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87476.0.html