Looking to make (CVO) 110 heads kinder to valve train ? 2008 - 2016 models

[GunShyKennedy]

There's plenty written here and elsewhere about the valve springs in the 110 heads being over strong for the task with stock or cams up to .600" lift. I'd like to try and improve the reliability/longevity, given the suggested weakness in this area.
Consider the heads stock as a rock with engine in warranty.

Is there a genuine HD spring set which will fit and address that issue? Like beehive springs from a 103?
Please, in your reply, be specific, parts numbers would be appreciated.

A change of lifters to one of the respected offerings, such as S&S or Hilift Johnsons, etc. is a given.
I understand that they can be considered a maintenance replacement anyway.

A set of Rocker Lockers simply as a precaution.

Any other improvements to increase longevity and reliability?
Not looking to exceed 6,000rpm or other fun abuses.
Thanks.

[wfolarry]

There are no Beehive spring kits from the MOCO for the 5/16 valves that are in the 110.
If you're willing to change lifters to something non HD why not the springs too?
If you go with S&S for the lifters they sell the Beehive springs too.
There are other options out there too. 

[GunShyKennedy]

Thanks Larry, your input is valued. ( I had a squizzy @ the SE Catalog, figured I might've missed something, hence the initial question)
With an engine under factory warranty, there's a limit to what a bloke can do. It's not MY willingness per se 

Am I on the right track to consider different lighter valve springs in an effort to reduce the stress the valve train is under, provided I'm not using a cam bigger than .600"?

I've a set of modified MVA heads with all the right gear, but the time isn't right, not right now.

[Don D]

The CVO springs are ~160lb on the seat. Most beehives are not less than that. Spring rates are a little lower however.

[GunShyKennedy]

The CVO springs are ~160lb on the seat. Most beehives are not less than that. Spring rates are a little lower however.

So I'm not on the right track, if I changed to beehive springs? Inasmuch as the slight advantage is the over the nose weight?

I'm considering AV&V VSK600S. Beehive springs, 5/16" for cams up to .600" lift
600"   165lbs @ 1.860"   384 lbs @ 1.250"



According to the 2016 Softail Service Manual.... for specifications at 1.800, v 1.860 for the AV&V

[TorQuePimp]

The set of new 2015 cvo110 springs is a bit more that that

[GunShyKennedy]

The set of new 2015 cvo110 springs is a bit more that that

Now this is confusing.


The image (with valve spring pressure) I posted was direct from the 2016 Service Manual.
You're saying the 2015 is a bit more than the 2016?
All the part numbers related to valves and springs are the same for 2015 and 2016.

Anyone care to offer clarity?

[wfolarry]

Make it easy on yourself. The only springs I don't like are the ones with the flat wire damper. Use any double spring with an interference fit & put some good lifters in there & you won't have any problems.

[Don D]

The CVO springs are ~160lb on the seat. Most beehives are not less than that. Spring rates are a little lower however.

So I'm not on the right track, if I changed to beehive springs? Inasmuch as the slight advantage is the over the nose weight?

I'm considering AV&V VSK600S. Beehive springs, 5/16" for cams up to .600" lift
600"   165lbs @ 1.860"   384 lbs @ 1.250"



According to the 2016 Softail Service Manual.... for specifications at 1.800, v 1.860 for the AV&V

Sounds good when they are new but what happens when they run a while. ~160 lbs seat and ~ 450 open (.600) @ stock spring pack height. these are actual measurements I took on a calibrated Rimac. I happen to have 10 sets at least in my scrap pail. Reality also is they do not set in at 1.8 with stock untouched heads and valves, those are just checking dimensions. The beehives you cite are just not that different, with respect to pressure, from stock but the design is a huge improvement.
Larry provided good advise.  I have also been using conicals which are designed for a 1.800 installed height.

[No Cents]

  Don...what brand conical spring are you talking about? ...and I'm assuming your talking about one that comes set up for a 5/16" valve.
Would you care to share the part numbers for the springs, retainers, keepers, etc that you are talking about.

Ray

[Don D]

The springs are Comp, the retainers Manley, and the lower spring collars are Manley or Comp depending on what I need for spring pack height. I modify the lower spring collars sometimes to gain a little more spring pack height, depends on the valve job and valves used and gross lift.
No numbers because not every application is the same.

[No Cents]

 I called Comp sometime ago and tried to order a set of springs. The guy I talked to said they didn't make a conical spring for the HD application. I gave him some part #'s off this list and the guy said it wasn't what I needed. 

[attach=0]

  I was reading him the part numbers from this page of Comp's conical springs. He again told me they sell no conical spring for a Harley application. I gave up because we seemed to be going nowhere.
  From everything I could read the conical springs seemed like they would work great in a HD application if they were set up properly. 

Ray

[Frédéric CM]

Didn't PAC springs have some true conical springs out that can work for HD ?

[Don D]

I called Comp sometime ago and tried to order a set of springs. The guy I talked to said they didn't make a conical spring for the HD application. I gave him some part #'s off this list and the guy said it wasn't what I needed. 

[attach=0]

  I was reading him the part numbers from this page of Comp's conical springs. He again told me they sell no conical spring for a Harley application. I gave up because we seemed to be going nowhere.
  From everything I could read the conical springs seemed like they would work great in a HD application if they were set up properly. 

Ray

Ray now you know why I am not publishing numbers because this stuff is made for BBC and Chevrolet LS and HD. A mix match with additional work needed. Guys want a kit they can buy from the lowest cost source on the net. This stuff just doesn't fit the model.
Goodson beehives works for the rest.

[GunShyKennedy]

Make it easy on yourself. The only springs I don't like are the ones with the flat wire damper. Use any double spring with an interference fit & put some good lifters in there & you won't have any problems.

Thanks Larry, much appreciated.
I don't understand the interference fit.

The AV&V springs, either beehive singles or double springs ( VSK600S ) will do the business then.
Fortunately I can buy these locally, in Australia.
Thanks again.

[-deuced-]

Make it easy on yourself. The only springs I don't like are the ones with the flat wire damper. Use any double spring with an interference fit & put some good lifters in there & you won't have any problems.

I also don't understand the interference fit. What, you want the inner and outer springs to be rubbing on each other? 

Thanks Larry, much appreciated.
I don't understand the interference fit.

The AV&V springs, either beehive singles or double springs ( VSK600S ) will do the business then.
Fortunately I can buy these locally, in Australia.
Thanks again.

[TorQuePimp]

I called Comp sometime ago and tried to order a set of springs. The guy I talked to said they didn't make a conical spring for the HD application. I gave him some part #'s off this list and the guy said it wasn't what I needed. 

[attach=0]

  I was reading him the part numbers from this page of Comp's conical springs. He again told me they sell no conical spring for a Harley application. I gave up because we seemed to be going nowhere.
  From everything I could read the conical springs seemed like they would work great in a HD application if they were set up properly. 

Ray

none of those springs have the correct spring rate or installed height for a harley

  there is also a decided lack of retainers for them.....possibly because they really were not designed with harleys in mind



Dual springs without dampners are nothing new....the better quality,smaller diameter ones sold thru manley,comp,pac that were designed for the GM LS engine are just about perfect for a harley twin cam.

  you dont want the springs tight together to where you have to pull them out....generally they can be pulled apart easily but the inner spring should not fall out if you pick the assembly up.

[Don D]

none of those springs have the correct spring rate or installed height for a harley

  there is also a decided lack of retainers for them.....possibly because they really were not designed with harleys in mind

They have been working great for me.
One set is on Joshes Dyna (2006FXDCI) and that one sees the strip regularly. 2" intake 1.61 exhaust. He also reports it is very quiet.
PAC has retainers for the 5/16 stems
The retainers are around but they are expensive. So are the lower collars.

But we digress
Want to run Harley springs that will work
Order 18209-06 146#seat@1.800 350 spring rate, dual with no flat damper
Rated max lift is .585, YMMV needs to be checked for coil bind

[aswracing]

We run Comp Cams conicals on lots of the heads that go out of our shop, in 7mm stems. There's no reason they can't be used on a Harley, we do it every day.

They're amazing springs, really noticeably better than a beehive. I was just astonished the first time we tested them. Made 132hp at 8000 rpm on 78ci, and the valvetrain was stable, with only fractionally more pressure than we had been using. They really are an advancement in spring technology. Since that day, we've been phasing out our use of PAC & AV&V in the top shelf applications.

[aswracing]

 

[Don D]

 
Lightening up the valve train helps too.
These are 2.12" 7MM nail heads

[aswracing]

Lightening up the valve train helps too.
These are 2.12" 7MM nail heads

Good stuff!

Is that a shelf part or a custom?

[dsvracer]

who sells the 2.12 7mm valves ??  TIA

[No Cents]

We run Comp Cams conicals on lots of the heads that go out of our shop, in 7mm stems. There's no reason they can't be used on a Harley, we do it every day.

They're amazing springs, really noticeably better than a beehive. I was just astonished the first time we tested them. Made 132hp at 8000 rpm on 78ci, and the valvetrain was stable, with only fractionally more pressure than we had been using. They really are an advancement in spring technology. Since that day, we've been phasing out our use of PAC & AV&V in the top shelf applications.

   that's the kind of info I like hearing. You tested the conical springs...and the results of it sound very impressive to me.
Thanks for sharing aswracing! 
  From all the research I did on them I found this interesting info on the conical springs...it seems that all the Nascar Cup series cars had went to the conical springs a few years ago. Sometimes those engines are spun well over 8K...with hard off throttle...then quickly back to full on hard throttle again. This shows me that the conical springs work very well in a torture tested environment such as that. With fewer valve train related failures in the Sprint Cup series...it speaks volumes to me.

Ray

[aswracing]

Comp Cams conicals in a Harley head. 7mm stem. Ti retainer.



8000 rpm baby! That's where I had the limiter, and I tickled it several times.

Massive overkill for a Twin Cam though. You're not likely to get that many rpm from any Big Twin. This is a Sportster.