Author Topic: Back in the EVO game!  (Read 2348 times)

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Online thumper 823

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2017, 02:47:07 AM »
JW113-  quintessential
Yes, you nailed him and them!  Good term!
The 45MPH crowd that cannot go for a ride with without 45 other "BROS" plugging up the roads.
They sally up to ya(me ) and want to talk bike stuff....but the best they can do talk about the type of wax they use..
I always excuse myself from their wannabee bro crap .
Sometimes I explain if they do not know the difference between a primary chain and a cam chain we have nothing in common.
Other times i send a heat seeker and ask them a technical question.
 When the deer in the headlights expression arrives I also move on.
 I ant their bro
I am 65 years old and earned every mile i have ever road one way or another.
As I have said B4,  i am not so sure they even deserve to have a M/C
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2017, 08:41:55 AM »
Thumper, I'm seeing fewer and fewer of those guys around here. They still come through in the summertime though. A few years back I read a post on this site by a very angry owner. Seems they bought a 20k+ motorcycle from their local dealer and joined the HOG. Then, either the dealership closed or they quit supporting the Owners Group (I don't remember which). The poster was furious that he had spent so much money on a motorcycle that was now "useless" because there was no HOG group to ride with. Another was mad because his bike had sat in the shop all summer long while Harley waited for a part to fix his radio. He lost an entire summer because he couldn't ride without his radio blasting. I sure did enjoy all the cheap zero mile parts that they put on ebay though.

Offline JW113

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2017, 08:47:30 AM »
Around here, what I often get is when I'm at a stop light, some 'bro' will be stopped next to me in a Lexus or BMW, put down his window and say something like 'man I gotta get out and ride' or 'I need to get into the wind' or other such nonsense. If I see other guys on Harleys, 99% of the time they just ignore me. Which is fine by me. Same is true if I happen to go down to the HD dealer for some parts, which I usually do on one my older bikes or Indian. Totally ignored. Then again, I don't exactly look like the typical Harley owner these days, and my bikes don't exactly look like the typical machine of the HOG crowd, so I can understand why.

From what I can see, these people don't buy motorcycles to ride, they buy them to WEAR. And in many cases, as an excuse to buy a whole new wardrobe that has Harley-Davidson printed on every piece of clothing they own. Ah such is life, and live and let live is my motto. Just don't call me bro!
 :sick:

Back to the comp nut.

Bob, I am seriously in doubt that a rattle gun will budge this thing, at least the one I have. Maybe a big ass 1" drive with 180psi of air behind it, but probably as likely to pull the threads right off the sprocket shaft! Heat is about the the only option at this time, and my worry there is taking the temper out of the nut, so likely will need to replace it. Will give a shot with some moderate heat and see how it goes. If no budge, then it's RED HOT time...  :crook:

(and I hope to hell that the clutch hub nut is not like this!)

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Online Hossamania

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2017, 09:58:50 AM »
Not to be a wise ass, but are you turning it the right way? A couple guys in the past have torqued the wrong direction.
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline JW113

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2017, 10:09:08 AM »
Counter-clockwise on the comp nut (RH thread)
Clockwise on the clutch hub nut (LH thread)

Good question to ask though!

So in the interest of working on other things that need more attention than an upgrade to 61T, am going to button the primary back up and save this project for a rainy day.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline david lee

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2017, 01:01:08 PM »
OK, so a little progress today and then a brick wall.

I pulled the wheels and had some Avon Cobras mounted, and went on a parts shopping spree. Since I had the wheels off, I figured what an ideal time to pull the primary and swap the 70T rear pulley and belt for the 61T that I have. All went well until I tried to get the compensator nut off. Holy crap, I have NEVER had a problem getting the comp nut off on anything. Except now. This freaking thing is so tight, or so overloaded with red loctite, that it feels welding on. I was using my 2 foot SnapOn breaker bar, with a shovelhead fork tube as a cheater, and I swear it was going to snap the breaker bar. I was giving it all I had, and it would not budge.

So I guess the next step is to fire up the oxy-acetylene and get it hotter then hell, and give it another try. Will likely swing by Harbor Fright and see what the largest 3/4 drive breaker bar they have also.

Why oh why do people do this to mechanical things?

On the lighter side...

I have a repair bill that the previous owner gave me, to show how it had been "maintained". He had it trailered to Dudley-Perkins Harley-Davidson (can I say that?), with a nail in the rear tire. He also complained that the rear break felt soft, and that the oil smelled 'gassy'. And it had also spewed out a bunch of oil one time when he fired it up. (this guy did not put hardly 1000 miles in 5 year on the bike)

So what did Dudley do? Sell him a new rear tire (existing one had 3500 miles on it), sell him a new carburetor to fix the gas getting into the oil, and replace the oil pump for the oil spew at start up. OK, so do any of you buy that?

Rear tire: hot patch the tire from the insie, replace the tube. DONE
Clean the carb, replace the float needle. DONE
Pull the oil pump check valve spring and ball bearing, clean the parts, give the ball a tap, re-assembly. DONE

I'm telling ya, the guy that owned this bike before me is the quintessential target market for the HD motor company. Big desire to "live to ride", at least down to the country club to show his golfing pals he's now a "biker", but no mechanical aptitude what-so-ever, so that the HD dealerships can mint money by selling him parts and service he doesn't really need.

And then there is me. Gotta get than damn compensator nut off.
 :doh:

-JW
that hd dealer shore took him for a ride bro. sorry, mr jw

Offline FSG

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2017, 01:14:49 PM »
when you get back to it make sure you clean up the face of the socket and provide support to your socket/breaker bar




Offline david lee

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2017, 02:56:14 AM »
a good rattle gun has never failed me

Online thumper 823

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2017, 03:18:02 AM »
I would not use a rattle gun on a crank for fear of bearing damage.
Never have I had a torch fail me with a cheater bar like the above pic.
With Real heat, nuts and bolts will generally start jumping off.
Personally, I like propane and oxy.
It is a LOT safer than acetylene.
It is just slightly slower and will do everything.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline guppymech

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2017, 05:52:33 AM »
Nice Bike!  Look at Paughco for a exhaust although they say they won't ship to Cal, maybe you can work around that.  I bought a set of their pipes for my Shovel and boy were they quiet.  Luckily the baffle ramp could be bent up to let more exhaust out. http://paughco.com/2008-catalog/indivpages/Harley-Davidson%20Evolution%20Exhaust%20Product%20Page.html
Also too bad about the money grabbing at Dudleys.  I bought two bikes there in the later 80's and they were nothing but great.  Tom Perkins (rip) was a super guy and his brother Jim ran the service dept.  I'm a mech by trade and they treated me as one of their own in the service dept while they de-smogged my bike before delivery.  A lot sure has changed from small dealership days.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 07:11:37 AM by guppymech »
'84 FXE, '02 883R

Offline david lee

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2017, 12:51:26 PM »
I would not use a rattle gun on a crank for fear of bearing damage.
Never have I had a torch fail me with a cheater bar like the above pic.
With Real heat, nuts and bolts will generally start jumping off.
Personally, I like propane and oxy.
It is a LOT safer than acetylene.
It is just slightly slower and will do everything.
ive used oxy to with great success

Offline Burnout

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2017, 09:47:33 AM »
He wasn't talking about Oxycodone....


 :smiled:
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline david lee

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2017, 12:15:36 PM »
He wasn't talking about Oxycodone....


 :smiled:
i meant the bottled flame stuff

Offline JW113

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2017, 03:03:01 PM »
Project update:

New tires & wheels, it's looking a lot better. The original wheels did not clean up very well, rust in the rims and the spokes were totally corroded. I had tried a set of those Ultima laced wheels on my Shovelhead, and thought they were actually pretty nice quality so opted to snag another set for this Evo.

Since I had to pull the wheels again, just kept turning wrenches until I had the primary off, and replaced the belt for the 61T rear pulley. That stubborn compensator nut came off with the help of a MAPP gas torch And after inspection, the culprit was clear: a TON of red loctite was used on this thing!

Next was to look at the camshaft situation. It had the stock pushrods, so had to pull the rocker tops and rockers to get the cam out. Low and behold, an Andrews EV-46. A bit too much cam for a stock compression motor if you ask me, will be looking for something a tad tamer. But since I had the rocker boxes off...

Hey, in for a penny, in for a pound. A few more twists of the wrench and bam! Heads and cylinders are sitting on the floor in a box. The pistons and cylinders showed almost no wear, so I'll throw a light hone on the jugs and a new set or rings and call it good. The heads looked to be oozing some oil past the guides, and the exhaust valves were bone white as if running really lean. Will have a basic valve job done, shave .030", and mild port.

So it's in quite a few pieces at the moment, hope to get it mostly back together by Thanksgiving weekend.

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-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline FSG

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2017, 03:28:23 PM »
Rocker Lockers while the heads are off and cut 50 thou off the Comp Nut

Offline Deye76

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2017, 05:29:07 PM »
You wasted no time JW.  :up:
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2017, 05:55:42 PM »
I had the 46 in my '95 Heritage, I liked it because of the top end power, but it is not for everyone. A 27 would work well. You could shave the heads a bit, plenty of clearance, and that would wake up either of those cams.
Good luck, it looks like you're having fun!
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline Reddog74usa

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2017, 06:54:11 PM »
Didn't take you long did it??? Good luck on the refresh  :beer: :up:
RIDE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT

Offline FSG

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2017, 08:02:09 PM »
Quote
You could shave the heads a bit, plenty of clearance,

in the old days we'd just cut them 50 thou without further checking and re assemble   :teeth:

Offline JW113

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2017, 11:43:57 AM »
No doubt there dudes, "new" old bike in the shop, no way I can keep the wrenches away from it!
 :SM:

Yeah, was probably over-thinking how much to shave the heads, .030 to .060, with the static C/R supposed to be increased 9:1 or 9.5:1. Considering it a rigid mount, and no plan to make it a hot rod, I wanted to start off more mellow and go from there. So, .030" it is for now. Since I geared it taller (2.92:1), a low/mid cam like EV-27 or Crane 300 would be better suited for that, plus neither need a lot more compression than stock to work well in the 2K-4K range. Don't want a ping-monster on my hands! So I'm doing the "baby steps" route, if this formula doesn't yield what I want, can always go back in and tweak the recipe some more.

The paint on the cyls and heads is pretty toasted and falling off in places. What do you guys use? I hear that HD texture black paint is pretty good, never used it personally.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline rageglide

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2017, 12:01:28 PM »
Two posts and not a peep about the pulled studs    :smiled:   :pop:

Offline Mark222

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2017, 12:06:15 PM »
Quote
You could shave the heads a bit, plenty of clearance,

in the old days we'd just cut them 50 thou without further checking and re assemble   :teeth:

I have always heard .050 was the best cut.  Bump Compression but no upset the angle to get a good intake manifold seal.

Mark

Offline JW113

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2017, 02:44:40 PM »
Two posts and not a peep about the pulled studs    :smiled:   :pop:

Oh.. um, yeah...that's right.  :dgust:

Three pulled cylinder studs. Would have bet a nickel that was gonna happen.  :banghead:

So, what to do? Loctite them back in, get the newer style with flange at bottom and loctite them in, and in both cases, tear it back down and TimeSert the threads after they won't take torque. Or just go ahead TimeSert the threads now. Decisions, decisions....

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline hbkeith

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2017, 02:55:01 PM »
when I pulled my 97 apart , EV27 , sent heads to WFO for 0.50 cut, bigger valves and port ( as long as heads need some work anyway  :nix:), used Pro pipe . Very happy

Online thumper 823

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Re: Back in the EVO game!
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2017, 05:26:30 PM »
Two posts and not a peep about the pulled studs    :smiled:   :pop:

Oh.. um, yeah...that's right.  :dgust:

Three pulled cylinder studs. Would have bet a nickel that was gonna happen.  :banghead:

So, what to do? Loctite them back in, get the newer style with flange at bottom and loctite them in, and in both cases, tear it back down and TimeSert the threads after they won't take torque. Or just go ahead TimeSert the threads now. Decisions, decisions....

-JW

Go ARP or better.
And like said 0.50 is EZ  to take off.
I think i have 0.80  off mine at last count...But  the combustion chambers cut for Hi dome pistons
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.