Author Topic: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!  (Read 1241 times)

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Offline hotrodshovel

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 08:17:06 PM »
Mark, you can also pop the heads off and ship them to Kirby, if he's not completely booked up after his record breaking 6.85 pass, and have CR's installed.  That way you get to keep your dual plugs, Easy peasy.

However, if its in a 'good place' don't tempt fate. Leave the old girl alone and just give her a ride every now and then.
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline 76shuvlinoff

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2017, 04:16:24 AM »
Quote
Leave the old girl alone

 LOL! Is there a support group or 12 step program for that?  :teeth:
Being defenseless does not make you more safe.

Offline hotrodshovel

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2017, 09:19:01 AM »
 :hyst:   Did I say that?
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline Reddog74usa

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2017, 12:49:32 PM »
Hi, My name is Reddog and I'm a SHOVELHOLIC  :bike:
RIDE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT

Offline dirtymike

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2017, 05:12:32 PM »
Thanks for sharing.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2017, 06:38:12 PM »
Hi Reddog.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline bagga

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2017, 08:31:50 PM »
it sounds like a bad main circuit breaker to me.
1985 flhtc
1976 fxe

Offline JW113

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 08:07:23 AM »
Indeed, it did seem like somebody shut the power off after it ran OK for a few seconds. But I don't think replacing electronic ignition module with a set of points fixes a bad circuit breaker, does it? Now if the ignition module was doing something weird and pulling a ton of amps, that could open the circuit breaker. But all of the lights were still on, so I don't think that's it.

At any rate, it's been running great since going back to points.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Burnout

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 08:40:23 AM »
Or a bad handle bar switch or a dirty/abused Molex connector.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline gryphon

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 11:07:14 AM »
JW, there is obviously something wrong. Electronic ignitions can indeed go belly up (at the worst possible moment) but they don't usually do it over and over unless something is causing it. Nothing at all against points. They worked fine for a hundred or more years and they still do. I would almost have to call it either excessive heat or bad coil. Those are the two things I'm aware of that will mysteriously kill those ignitions. Since you're not eating condensers it doesn't sound like heat (unless your condenser is remotely mounted). I absolutely understand the aggravation they can cause and it's hard to enjoy the ride when you're just waiting for it to die on you. Unfortunately unlike points you can't just look at your electronic ignition and see what's wrong. Still, if they keep going belly up on you then I would have to suspect that something about your bike is killing them. Luckily, Shovels run just fine with points as long as you're using quality components. 

Offline Burnout

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 12:55:05 PM »
Bad plug or plug wires can cause an EI to fail.

Also making sparks without a grounded plug connected can burn a EI.

When you make 40,000 volts you have to give it a place to go or it will go anywhere.

You can also ruin a coil by having an open circuit on the secondary. (no grounded plugs connected)
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline JW113

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 09:55:59 PM »
There is no doubt that something is wrong. Three bad ignition modules in a row?? The one common element is the coil, and that is what I suspect is probably the root cause. However, it measures out at 3.1 ohms per side (it's a single fire coil). I'm thinking that after it gets warm, it's possibly shorting inside, thus overheating the module or something. But given the choices:

Curtain number 1: Buy a new coil and ignition module (what, $250 at least?) and hope that's the problem and hope I don't get stuck again

Curtain number 2: Leave the points in it, don't spend a red cent, and fahgetaboutit (and frankly it ran no different at all between points and electronic single fire)

Um, oh Monty oh Monty, what do I do??? I'll take..... Curtain number 2!

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Hossamania

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2017, 05:18:28 AM »
At this point, I would stick with points also.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline gryphon

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2017, 08:44:03 AM »
It's okay to stick with points. Just don't let your points stick. I'm sure Hoss didn't mean that as a pun.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2017, 09:35:11 AM »
Nope, but I get it!
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline Hossamania

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2017, 09:43:06 AM »
A quick story:
I was at the Hundredth in Milwaukee, in the lot at the dealer. A guy has a nice old Shovel, he says it's not running right. I have him start it, it's misfiring all over the place. I tell him he needs a condensor.
He asks, "What's that?"
I was just a little mystified how he could not know, and realized he had probably just started riding in his forties, and this was his first bike so he could go to the anniversary. I also thought he should not have a bike with points. Or, a bike.
But I told him to go into the dealer, get a condensor for $6, and I would put it in. I showed him how to do it, put it in, and the bike fired right off. The points had a little build up on them, and I thought about showing him how he could knock it down with his wife's Emory board, then thought better of it. He was happy, and I was leaving.
I wonder if he made it through the weekend.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline hotrodshovel

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2017, 12:16:15 PM »
Good man, Hoss :up:
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline david lee

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2017, 12:43:30 PM »
A quick story:
I was at the Hundredth in Milwaukee, in the lot at the dealer. A guy has a nice old Shovel, he says it's not running right. I have him start it, it's misfiring all over the place. I tell him he needs a condensor.
He asks, "What's that?"
I was just a little mystified how he could not know, and realized he had probably just started riding in his forties, and this was his first bike so he could go to the anniversary. I also thought he should not have a bike with points. Or, a bike.
But I told him to go into the dealer, get a condensor for $6, and I would put it in. I showed him how to do it, put it in, and the bike fired right off. The points had a little build up on them, and I thought about showing him how he could knock it down with his wife's Emory board, then thought better of it. He was happy, and I was leaving.
I wonder if he made it through the weekend.
right place right time.how did you know the solution and that it had points.could that have been the only cause of the symptom.that guy was lucky you were there.was it a general conversation about his bike that the problem was bought up

Offline Hossamania

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2017, 02:14:01 PM »
A quick story:
I was at the Hundredth in Milwaukee, in the lot at the dealer. A guy has a nice old Shovel, he says it's not running right. I have him start it, it's misfiring all over the place. I tell him he needs a condensor.
He asks, "What's that?"
I was just a little mystified how he could not know, and realized he had probably just started riding in his forties, and this was his first bike so he could go to the anniversary. I also thought he should not have a bike with points. Or, a bike.
But I told him to go into the dealer, get a condensor for $6, and I would put it in. I showed him how to do it, put it in, and the bike fired right off. The points had a little build up on them, and I thought about showing him how he could knock it down with his wife's Emory board, then thought better of it. He was happy, and I was leaving.
I wonder if he made it through the weekend.
right place right time.how did you know the solution and that it had points.could that have been the only cause of the symptom.that guy was lucky you were there.was it a general conversation about his bike that the problem was bought up

I grew up working on cars with points, and had heard a few failed condensers over the years. As soon as he started it, I knew what the problem was, it's just such a random firing of the plugs out of time, that it makes an impression on you the first time you hear it. I hadn't heard it in 20 or more years, but it came right back when I did.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline gryphon

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2017, 02:20:09 PM »
Every time I've had one fail the motor would backfire like a cherry bomb going off. Let it set for a bit and it'll fire back up and run until it heats up and craps out again. It's pretty noticeable.

Offline david lee

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2017, 03:40:01 PM »
A quick story:
I was at the Hundredth in Milwaukee, in the lot at the dealer. A guy has a nice old Shovel, he says it's not running right. I have him start it, it's misfiring all over the place. I tell him he needs a condensor.
He asks, "What's that?"
I was just a little mystified how he could not know, and realized he had probably just started riding in his forties, and this was his first bike so he could go to the anniversary. I also thought he should not have a bike with points. Or, a bike.
But I told him to go into the dealer, get a condensor for $6, and I would put it in. I showed him how to do it, put it in, and the bike fired right off. The points had a little build up on them, and I thought about showing him how he could knock it down with his wife's Emory board, then thought better of it. He was happy, and I was leaving.
I wonder if he made it through the weekend.
right place right time.how did you know the solution and that it had points.could that have been the only cause of the symptom.that guy was lucky you were there.was it a general conversation about his bike that the problem was bought up

I grew up working on cars with points, and had heard a few failed condensers over the years. As soon as he started it, I knew what the problem was, it's just such a random firing of the plugs out of time, that it makes an impression on you the first time you hear it. I hadn't heard it in 20 or more years, but it came right back when I did.
pays to carry spares.maybe youve educated him in case of failure again.i would have wanted to know what ign system that bike had if it was mine

Offline Hossamania

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2017, 05:13:21 PM »
A quick story:
I was at the Hundredth in Milwaukee, in the lot at the dealer. A guy has a nice old Shovel, he says it's not running right. I have him start it, it's misfiring all over the place. I tell him he needs a condensor.
He asks, "What's that?"
I was just a little mystified how he could not know, and realized he had probably just started riding in his forties, and this was his first bike so he could go to the anniversary. I also thought he should not have a bike with points. Or, a bike.
But I told him to go into the dealer, get a condensor for $6, and I would put it in. I showed him how to do it, put it in, and the bike fired right off. The points had a little build up on them, and I thought about showing him how he could knock it down with his wife's Emory board, then thought better of it. He was happy, and I was leaving.
I wonder if he made it through the weekend.
right place right time.how did you know the solution and that it had points.could that have been the only cause of the symptom.that guy was lucky you were there.was it a general conversation about his bike that the problem was bought up

I grew up working on cars with points, and had heard a few failed condensers over the years. As soon as he started it, I knew what the problem was, it's just such a random firing of the plugs out of time, that it makes an impression on you the first time you hear it. I hadn't heard it in 20 or more years, but it came right back when I did.
pays to carry spares.maybe youve educated him in case of failure again.i would have wanted to know what ign system that bike had if it was mine

This was over fourteen years ago. Maybe he really learned about his bike and is still riding that or a new bike. But my feeling is that that bike is long gone, and he stopped riding shortly after we met.
I have a friend that bought his first Shovel in '82. He has owned that or another bike ever since. He has less miles total than I ride in a year, he hadn't checked his tires in almost a year, but only rode twice in that year. He can barely check his own oil, but he still rides, we go on a trip every year (he now checks his tires) and I'm proud of him for keeping a nice bike.
So, who knows.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline rageglide

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2017, 07:37:51 PM »
JW and I were on a trip with a guy running an airhead BMW R75/5.  "Airhead, simple by design" guy.  We were out of state and his bud started having issues with the bike, stalling and running like crap at idle.  He was saying "screw it, leave me here guys and i'll get myself home"...  Maybe John remembers, but I seem to recall suggesting we check the points.  15 mins later points reset with a match cover.   

Simple by design mostly, maybe moreseo if you're a credit card cowboy.


PS - note-to-self do not loan John any of my electronic ignitions.

Offline JW113

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2017, 07:57:38 AM »
No worries there Bob. I done learnt my lesson with that damn new fangled electronic crap. It's mechanical all the way from here on!

But thanks for loaning me that mechanical advance unit.
 :wink:

And yes, I surely do remember the Airhead incident. Ol' Ricky kept complaining that "he just had it tuned up at the shop" before that trip.

Lesson number two: don't trust anyone but YOURSELF to work on your bike. And even then, trust but verify!

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline rageglide

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Re: OK I GET THE POINT(s)!!!
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2017, 09:28:15 AM »
 :up: