Author Topic: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?  (Read 638 times)

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Online thumper 823

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Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« on: November 25, 2017, 03:00:23 AM »
What is your story and experience been?
Bigger I know is not necessarily better.
To the point -where does it turn on at with the cam you are using?
I know lots of Evo engines are running the 1.90 size configuration ...
Being I have mine apart -again,...( Now using velcro for fasteners     :soda:)   is 2 inch too big for the street?
  What throat size?  90% ?
Dos and dont's in your opinion are appreciated.
Thanx!
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2017, 04:32:27 AM »
How many CI engine?
What rpm will you run?
What Cam?


Offline Deye76

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2017, 06:53:14 AM »
Even in larger motors, velocity is your friend, for a street bike.
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Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2017, 07:21:39 AM »
Bore and stroke?

Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2017, 07:49:26 AM »
As of right now

85 inch
Twinn plugged / Twinn tech ignition
High dome 10.5 CR pistons
0.30 squish band
Reshaped heads top accommodate  pistons
std stroke and rods  ( I do like Sq and If I do anything it will go over Sq)
1.90  intakes
Dm 530 Cam
and all the paraphernalia  that goes with it
Port and Polish
No Bragg it RUNS.
It will run right past my F6B

It has no flat spots and I do realize there is only so much Hp?TQ in a given area being  NA 
I seriously doubt there is much left on the table .(without moving the RPM into drag race limits )
I know I am close to the limits ( with outgoing larger  displacement)  and just wondering about the personality of the two-inch valves .
That is the question .
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 12:44:30 PM »
A 2" valve in a stock head needs a lot of chamber work to see any gains. At your bore size now I don't see any advantage to it. If you go bigger bore in the future then you could use a 2". I would go at least 3 3/4" before I would even consider it.

Offline turboprop

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 01:45:15 PM »
2" valves are tough in that little 85" bore, especially with any amount of lift. The valve pockets will very, very close to the top ring land. No way around it . Course the question is why? Unless the intent is to spin that tiny 85" up to some really high RPM, that 2" valve is really not required. I would be willing to bet that the smart head porters Like Larry, Baisley, Scott would all recommend against do that.

FYI - I talked with Billy at STD this week, he will soon be releasing STD evo heads. I dont have any other details. If I were still in the small bore evo game, I would wait for a set of new STD castings. 
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Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 02:31:07 PM »
Tis truly real EZ to say Yay or Nay.
There are a LOT of factors to consider.
Math, charts, calculators will only personify so much just as with boat props and propellers.
On paper, it is one answer in real life it is skewed.
Everything from the front of the air filter to the exit tip is all part of the trip to the equation.
Tring to make more then 1.25 per cube is chasing the one's own tail.
It will be moving the Pwr band around that is all.
I know this.
Real world exp with my question would sufficiently be appreciated.
It has been said by smarter people then i  "engines run on velocity, not CFM.
More and more and more all the hype about flow benches has wained in favor getting the bigger picture.
I think I will have to sit here and shuffle the slide rule for a whilst more.
More cam?
more valve?
More popcorn too.
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Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 06:34:55 PM »
Not really that EZ.
S&S has been using 2" intake valves in Evo heads for over 30 years, even in 74" Evo sportsters.
It depends what you target for tq curve,riding style and HP/CI.

Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 06:40:34 PM »
And-
That is exactly what I have been asking.
What personality do they bring?
Will the blankety statement always be the case?  (move the torq up the  RPM scale)
Or with a proper valve and port job could the velocity be improved for a better running machine?
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Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2017, 07:49:54 PM »
And-
That is exactly what I have been asking.
What personality do they bring?
Will the blankety statement always be the case?  (move the torq up the  RPM scale)
Or with a proper valve and port job could the velocity be improved for a better running machine?

We are back to how do you define better running machine.
A properly ported head with a proper seat and 2" valve will make great higher rpm horse power but it will have to come in later in the rpm band. Now the same 2" head can be forced to make early rpm tq with the right cam, compression and exhaust system but only by sacrificing high rpm HP. You make it a rob Peter to pay Paul engine. Use the the proper size valve and you can almost achieve both the HP and the early TQ in the same engine and have a wider tq curve. it really comes down to how you plan to use the engine and that determines which type of power makes it the better running machine.

Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2017, 08:36:59 PM »
Well, this is all good calisthenics for the theorems of what we all know and understand.
No flame intended.
We also know there are lots of two-inch valves in a lot of street Bikes.
I was hoping for someone to chime in and state what they have fo a cam
and say what the personality brings.
To the best of my schooling one can increase cam events or in a combo or increase valve size with less emphasis on cam.
Velocity is our friend and at some point, the hole will be too large to create the continuous charge and extraction we are wishing for.
I do not think any computer map is going to point that out for me or us.
 I was looking to the borg of experience here to see what has already been done.
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Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2017, 09:39:50 PM »
Good luck

Offline sfmichael

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2017, 11:29:22 PM »
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline Scott P

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 06:04:46 AM »
1.940", but a seat replacement is still needed.
The D shelf needs to be pushed over, thus creating a very large chamber, once completed.
Have witnessed over 100 hp from a 1.900" intake valve on an 80" Evo, on many occasions.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "steer clear of chameleons."

Offline Burnout

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 08:36:20 AM »
A 2" valve in a stock head needs a lot of chamber work to see any gains. At your bore size now I don't see any advantage to it. If you go bigger bore in the future then you could use a 2". I would go at least 3 3/4" before I would even consider it.


^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Plain and simple, the bore size has to increase to see a substantial/full benefit.

The cylinder wall shrouds a large intake.

Bigger is NOT better unless you make the bore larger too.

It's like putting a Hypo 350 head on a 305 motor. Bzzzzzt, fail.......
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Offline Scott P

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 05:31:15 AM »
 :chop:
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:31:48 PM by Scott P »
Otto Knowbetter sez, "steer clear of chameleons."

Offline nibroc

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 06:34:13 AM »
did not iron xl stock bikes come with 2" intake valves?

Offline Burnout

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2017, 06:44:21 AM »
If looking for upper-mid to high rpm power, I suspect that a 2" valve would deliver, in that respect
Hell, Iron XL's had 1.940" intakes, on a 3.187" hole....

Aren't Ironhead valves at a different angle?
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 06:50:15 AM »
did not iron xl stock bikes come with 2" intake valves?

1.940" is a stock intake for Iron Heads.
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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 08:35:08 AM »
I currently use 1.94 which is a pigeon shy of the 2.
this thing flat flys
  A 2 inch is not that much bigger, that is why I asked for people with ""experience ""
that actually have tried these on the street.
To Answers from the couch,  there is no end.
Most would no clue how to even start a valve job, but want to repeat crap they read.
Hell .
I can do that.
At some point, I know the velocity will fall off at street RPM depending on which cam is used.
Like I said -I was hoping for real-world experience even of it failed.
ALL and any ibfo would be great.
thanx!
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline turboprop

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2017, 09:31:31 AM »
I currently use 1.94 which is a pigeon shy of the 2.
this thing flat flys
  A 2 inch is not that much bigger, that is why I asked for people with ""experience ""
that actually have tried these on the street.
To Answers from the couch,  there is no end.
Most would no clue how to even start a valve job, but want to repeat crap they read.
Hell .
I can do that.
At some point, I know the velocity will fall off at street RPM depending on which cam is used.
Like I said -I was hoping for real-world experience even of it failed.
ALL and any ibfo would be great.
thanx!

Unfortunately, that and ambulance chasers, are the reality of internet discussions. Accept it for what it is.
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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 09:40:08 AM »
People guard things they have few of , perhaps that is why the 2 inch valved is pooowed.
I have zero for secrets and will avidly tell people what I have tried,  what works, what did not.
I am thinking a little outside the box for a street bike-
The 2 inch valve with a 48 deg cut to split the difference.
If i thought it would do 20K miles and run better,  this would no longer be a conversation.!
I don't mind a 20Kmile  tear dwn , thats long enough for my senile mind to forget the hassle not to get aggravated
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Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Scott P

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 11:02:12 AM »
got nothing
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:31:23 PM by Scott P »
Otto Knowbetter sez, "steer clear of chameleons."

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 11:12:20 AM »
To DATE- no one has posted a dyno report either seat of the pants or otherwise.
To date no one has said they installed them and regretted it.
Or versa Visa
I was not and am not looking for a computer graph analysis.
Just real answers success or failures.

Anyone can poo poo without knowing all there is to know.  (and no one does)
well, maybe Smoky Unick did.

Has anyone tried these with a cam of their flavor, ported heads and more than a 45 deg grind?
IF not ,
No one with exp has chimed in here.


Just the facts, please .
If any have NOT tried these in any format ( In EVO )  please refrain from guessing the outcome for me.
thanx

I was looking fwd to a real discussion.
i know if I have heads with big valves (1.94)  A 2 inch is not that far off, it may be the tipping point..IDK
Let's work this over from experience.
No flame intended.just to the point.
thanx
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:17:45 AM by thumper 823 »
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Offline Scott P

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2017, 12:33:44 PM »
 :up:
Otto Knowbetter sez, "steer clear of chameleons."

Offline JW113

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2017, 07:15:51 PM »
Yo Thump, looks like you are blazing your own trail here. I think many (me included) probably think 2" valves won't buy anything over a 1.94, but hey, that's based on instinked and not fact. I say go for it, keep us posted, prove us wrong, I'll cheer you on all the way. My man Fred Astaire said it best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8zvD5bCq98

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Offline turboprop

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 07:23:44 PM »
To DATE- no one has posted a dyno report either seat of the pants or otherwise.
To date no one has said they installed them and regretted it.
Or versa Visa
I was not and am not looking for a computer graph analysis.
Just real answers success or failures.

Anyone can poo poo without knowing all there is to know.  (and no one does)
well, maybe Smoky Unick did.

Has anyone tried these with a cam of their flavor, ported heads and more than a 45 deg grind?
IF not ,
No one with exp has chimed in here.


Just the facts, please .
If any have NOT tried these in any format ( In EVO )  please refrain from guessing the outcome for me.
thanx

I was looking fwd to a real discussion.
i know if I have heads with big valves (1.94)  A 2 inch is not that far off, it may be the tipping point..IDK
Let's work this over from experience.
No flame intended.just to the point.
thanx


It has been done, countless times. You can probably even buy a complete 80" crate from S&S with 2" intake valves. I would even bet you could look around on the S&S website and find some information, possibly even a dyno sheet or two comparing a stock displacement evo with oem heads vs the S&S heads (with 2" intake valves). 

https://www.sscycle.com/products/super-stock-heads-for-3-5/8-bore/
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Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 07:25:07 PM »
2 inch compared to 1.94  equals one flea fart and a 1/2 a burp.
That is the point of the dribble here that everyone so adroitly wants to condemn without any
work to prove it.
It will either work or fail depending on a few things.
I just was looking to see if there was any evidence pro or con.
 Blazing the trail...
I probably will try them.
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Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline turboprop

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 07:42:17 PM »
You are not blazing any trail, it has been done and the information is out there. You just want someone on this forum to serve it to you on a platter. Doubtful that anyone here has done it and if they have it was so long ago that they forgot they did. Do some real homework, the data you are looking for is available, but you will have to make an honest effort to look for it.
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Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2017, 07:53:24 PM »
You are not blazing any trail, it has been done and the information is out there. You just want someone on this forum to serve it to you on a platter. Doubtful that anyone here has done it and if they have it was so long ago that they forgot they did. Do some real homework, the data you are looking for is available, but you will have to make an honest effort to look for it.

No platter-
Show me the data .
I have read every article I can find for the last two weeks.
Education is about class ATTENDANCE, study retention, application.
Hypothesis,  theorem, and results.
I am not sure what corner you are erupting from, you want to show your hand as to what I missed and where?
Perhaps you have a hurt feeling?
just the facts please-keep the drama
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Offline turboprop

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2017, 08:05:29 PM »
You are not blazing any trail, it has been done and the information is out there. You just want someone on this forum to serve it to you on a platter. Doubtful that anyone here has done it and if they have it was so long ago that they forgot they did. Do some real homework, the data you are looking for is available, but you will have to make an honest effort to look for it.

No platter-
Show me the data .
I have read every article I can find for the last two weeks.
Education is about class ATTENDANCE, study retention, application.
Hypothesis,  theorem, and results.
I am not sure what corner you are erupting from, you want to show your hand as to what I missed and where?
Perhaps you have a hurt feeling?
just the facts please-keep the drama

 I am not going to show you anything. Do your own research, which doesnt include asking on a forum. The information is out there, go find it your own self. Hint: I posted a link.

And talk about drama, the mere existence of this thread is the epitome of drama.
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Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 03:06:06 AM »
You are not blazing any trail, it has been done and the information is out there. You just want someone on this forum to serve it to you on a platter. Doubtful that anyone here has done it and if they have it was so long ago that they forgot they did. Do some real homework, the data you are looking for is available, but you will have to make an honest effort to look for it.

No platter-
Show me the data .
I have read every article I can find for the last two weeks.
Education is about class ATTENDANCE, study retention, application.
Hypothesis,  theorem, and results.
I am not sure what corner you are erupting from, you want to show your hand as to what I missed and where?
Perhaps you have a hurt feeling?
just the facts please-keep the drama

 I am not going to show you anything. Do your own research, which doesnt include asking on a forum. The information is out there, go find it your own self. Hint: I posted a link.

And talk about drama, the mere existence of this thread is the epitome of drama.

Yea ,That is truly funny  in a drunken conversational way......
You say "all the information is readily available "go look it up"
I say "where? I have been looking two weeks"
You say "Nah Nah Hey Hey I am not going to show you"
Are you a child?
Me asking a question and you say its drama.
Yea right.
Admit it, Either you are clueless or a poser on here..
I am seriously looking for people who have had results, good or bad, not on PAPER!
You for your part would not know a stem dia from a 45 or 50 deg seat cut.
Forum EXPERTS, got to luv em , right?  LOL

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Offline Scott P

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 04:27:13 AM »
Holy Smokes!!


Otto Knowbetter sez, "steer clear of chameleons."

Offline turboprop

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 04:48:04 AM »
Holy Smokes!!

Cant make this stuff up. Funny thing is that I sort of agree with him about the online experts. The internet is full of them.
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Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 05:24:20 AM »
Holy Smokes!!

Cant make this stuff up. Funny thing is that I sort of agree with him about the online experts. The internet is full of them.
You wear the badge well!
You add nothing but the drama .
Now please, being you absolutely no nothing if the subject at hand (2 inch valves) Please refrain from the further
nonsense -

and go post about car wax somewhere.
You have that subject procured, and a resident expert on the newest and best flavor and application measurements.
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Offline Deye76

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 05:33:58 AM »
As been said here, it's been done before. I ran a S&S "Hot Set Up" in my 80" FXR back in 1994. Those heads have 2" intake valves. You can still buy the kit. Bike ran very good, but not earth shattering over a head with 1.940's that I had in another 80" Evo.  Hot Set Up was a combination of parts tested before marketing. It was good for a light bike like a FXR (no fairing/bags) as the power band was mid to top. Since the OP never stated what he was looking for, or riding style, we can only guess, thus appearing to be online experts etc. I've never tried to come off as a "expert", but I have been around Harley Davidson's for 48 years and can share some experiences. If theory is more important than actual experience then I can't help. But I will continue to post weather you like them or not. You can always ignore.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 05:39:07 AM by Deye76 »
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Online thumper 823

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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 05:40:43 AM »
As I have said - there is no end to answers from the computer mills.
I am thinking something close to a 50 deg grind and all that goes with it should open the door a LOT.
For a certain anyone that has tried it (you) I am grateful for your input.
Insomuch the only factor is I have zero for clues as to how far mileage wise it might last with a 50 deg cut.
I could live with 20K
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Re: Who here has exp with 2 inch valves?
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 01:44:54 PM »
The valve dia  ratio(being used by smarter people than I) is about 35 % lift pers valve height.
 According to the late great Mondello 89% for the throat.
This ratio is attainable in the Evo head.
Something I did not know is Goodson sells Mondello designed cutters!
 i can copy some of the greats ,Read some of the greats as In
 Smoky and Mondello but real-world adventures are worth a great deal to me.
I HATE going backwards as in redo, But to try is the fulcrum that tips one to new adventure and places.
There are even bigger vales being made for the Evo then just the 2 inch.
I guess I will have to give a book report later as to how this worked.
Be it a failure or a success.
Thanx all.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.