Author Topic: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns  (Read 1473 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« on: November 26, 2017, 01:32:04 PM »
Good day all!  I have  '14 Ultra Stage 1, S&S Power Tune Duals and V&H Monster Ovals.  It dynoed at 83hp@5300 rpm, it stays over 90ft-lbs from 2700-4800 rpm, peaking at 98ft-lbs@4000rpm with the 103 motor.  I have, or will soon have, the following parts to install;

Screamin Eagle CNC heads with competition valve job
Cometic .040" MLS Head Gaskets
Screamin Eagle Stage III Pro kit (SE-585 Cam)
Screamin Eagle Cam Plate/High Volume Pump with Baisley Precision-Ground Bypass Plunger
Screamin Eagle Twin Cam Forged Rocker Supports
Screamin Eagle Roller Rockers
Screamin Eagle Tapered Adjustable Pushrods
Head Quarters Black Ops lifters - soon
HPI 55mm TB or Ported Stock TB - soon

The dilema is with the SE-585 Cam; 

1.  Will CCP be too high (Live on East Coast and ride all over the country and Canada)?
2.  Will detonation be a problem with the 10.5 CR Pistons requiring an excessive amount of timing advance removed, affecting low end torque?
3.  Do I really need to upgrade TB for this or just port patch and clean-up stock TB?
4.  Should I dyno with lower than 93 octane due to traveling through areas that don't have 93 octane?

Dealer assures me that they will cover the installation under extended warranty so HD parts have to be used.  I do most of my riding on the highway for extended periods at around 80 mph@3K rpms and frequently with wife at close to max load (AXEO Cartridges and Revo-A Suspension) so low end torque is most important but would like to crest the 100HP mark.

Any assistance or experiences given would be greatly appreciated.

R/S,

Tony G

 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 02:26:53 PM by tonygiscwo4 »

Offline rigidthumper

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3940
  • Country: us
  • When tuners are outlawed, only outlaws will tune..
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 02:21:51 PM »
SE585/SE CNC heads/ 110 drop on kit works well- 125-126TQ, 100-105 HP, depending on pipe/AC.  Don't need forged rocker supports or roller rockers. SE58TB works and it's cheaper.
Get the coverage in writing from the dealer, because the ESP company won't - They are only obligated to cover the parts registered on the SWR.
If you never measure your work, you can assume it's perfect.
Doesn't make it so.

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 02:51:25 PM »
Thanks for the insight about the warranty, something that I have given quite a bit of thought as well as it relates to the 107s dancing in my head.  I live close to STAR Racing and they were pushing me in that direction.  I digress; I put the parts together based on easing my mind when I'm on those 800-1000 mile days riding wherever I'm headed, Pheonix next summer, in fact, from GA.

S/F,

Tony G

Offline Timinator

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 81
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 06:34:35 PM »
If you are talking Phoenix,AZ. Then summer is probably a bad idea. It gets to 115+ here! The 585s will probably have too much ccp with a back East tune. We see those from time to time. "Those" being no ring lands and a large invoice!  TIMINATOR
MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!!!

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 07:35:53 PM »
Duly noted, thanks!

Offline Timinator

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 81
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2017, 01:31:57 AM »
While you are noting, it was 88 degrees here yesterday November 26th. 2017, the date of these posts. It is forecast for 80+ degrees for the next week also, and that's for the first week of December, 2017.
This is also why our dyno numbers are lower here too, we are not all hacks. Most dynos use outside air here, even the ones that don't are seeing less than 20% humidity, and corrected numbers not withstanding, we have to use less timing, compression, and richer mixtures to effect some engine cooling and stay out of detonation and that lowers observed and corrected HP.
Bottom line; don't have your engine built back East before you move here just because you know your engine guy. Do it after you are here, by a local that understands local conditions and issues. You can also go an hour and a half North, and be in Flagstaff, AZ. at 7400 ft. altitude and be 20 to 40 degrees cooler!  Just sayin'   TIMINATOR
MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!!!

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 03:12:51 PM »
T, thanks for the insight on the fuel. I have rode to Florida and ran into Fuel Stations that were out of everything but 87-89 octane and I had to run octane boost.  My plan is to ride to Phoenix AZ from GA and to come back east. Just had a club member who rode his GW to California and back but I don't think they have the same octane requirements but it does make me think about tuning with lower octane fuel.

I'm currently researching folks who have installed this cam with stock heads. Also thinking about running the 10:1 HD Forged Flat Top pistons to lower CCP and maybe capture some more of the timing that some speak of losing out on.  Hopefully my tune will allow enough spark retard to keep the detonation at bay without overheating problems while out west.

Thank you

Tony G

Offline HD Street Performance

  • Premium Vendor
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8420
  • Country: 00
    • HD Street Performance
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 05:27:01 PM »
A lot will depend on the tune
Some dealers get this well some not so much
Timing changes will be needed.
Tune it with lower octane as it is cool now and will give you some overhead.

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2017, 07:46:12 PM »
Definitely food for thought.

Thank you.

Tony G
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 02:05:38 AM by tonygiscwo4 »

Offline GMR-PERFORMANCE

  • Premium Vendor
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5466
  • Country: 00
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 07:24:23 AM »
I tuned one that had a fair amount of static in it for a guy hd Dons heads on it . It ran well had a broad power band but I did have to pull a bunch of timing. The Guy lives in Co if I recall at high Elevation . I do not recall what CI it was now though maybe Don can tell you . If I knew that i could post the sheet for you or customers name I tune so many bikes I have a hard time recalling them all .
www.gmrperformance.com  www.compensaver.com
817-741-2000   FORT WORTH TX

Online Hossamania

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12729
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 07:34:10 AM »
I tune so many bikes I have a hard time recalling them all .

Remember that one bike that had that problem that you fixed for that guy?
That was cool!
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline wolf_59

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1486
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 08:18:55 AM »
I tuned one that had a fair amount of static in it for a guy hd Dons heads on it . It ran well had a broad power band but I did have to pull a bunch of timing. The Guy lives in Co if I recall at high Elevation . I do not recall what CI it was now though maybe Don can tell you . If I knew that i could post the sheet for you or customers name I tune so many bikes I have a hard time recalling them all .

Pretty sure it was this one
http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=94353.msg1091683#msg1091683

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 05:07:16 PM »
Thanks G, H and W.  Seems that there are a fair amount of 110s with the SE-585 cam but I need to hear from some 103 folks, although this is very helpful.  Spoke with my dealership today and I told them that I am contemplating going to SE Forged Flat-Top Stroker Pistons P/N 22942-00A at 10:1, which will be 195psi CCP@sea level, roughly.  They felt confident that the cam would still make great power especially so with not pulling out timing on the low end.

R/S,

Tony G

Offline GMR-PERFORMANCE

  • Premium Vendor
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5466
  • Country: 00
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 05:39:13 AM »
Not going to make any change on how the cam can be tuned between the two at same give comp ratio . In my opinion any ways
www.gmrperformance.com  www.compensaver.com
817-741-2000   FORT WORTH TX

Offline spdrcr

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 96
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 06:37:27 AM »
I have a 103 with the Andrews 48. I was debating on the SE585 and the 48. The SE585 needs .30 HG and compression to be at 10.2 which will get you close to 200 ccp. I like the 48 as the TQ comes on earlier.

Offline sfmichael

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5068
  • Country: us
  • Hoping to build the next mighty 'mouse'
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 03:57:10 PM »
SE585/SE CNC heads/ 110 drop on kit works well- 125-126TQ, 100-105 HP, depending on pipe/AC.  Don't need forged rocker supports or roller rockers. SE58TB works and it's cheaper.
Get the coverage in writing from the dealer, because the ESP company won't - They are only obligated to cover the parts registered on the SWR.

as usual rigid's advice is spot on  :up: 

we did several of these exact builds and they always turned out well

no record breaking numbers but great power and no pms - good bang for the buck
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2017, 10:53:11 AM »
Thanks for the comments, They are truly appreciated.  I plan on calling my local Machine Shop on Manday to see if they can mill the crown off of my SE 10.5 cr pistons.

S/F,

Tony G
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 03:42:11 PM by tonygiscwo4 »

Offline wfolarry

  • Premium Vendor
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2500
  • Country: us
  • BREATHE DEEP
    • Larry's Motorcycle & Machine Inc.
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2017, 11:01:23 AM »
Thanks fro the comments, They are truly appreciated.  I plan on calling my local Machine Shop on Manday to see if they can mill the crown off of my SE 10.5 cr pistons.

S/F,

Tony G

Not if they're cast pistons.

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2017, 03:44:08 PM »
The Stage III 10.5 pistons are forged.

Tony G

Offline 1workinman

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 833
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 04:10:25 PM »
Good day all!  I have  '14 Ultra Stage 1, S&S Power Tune Duals and V&H Monster Ovals.  It dynoed at 83hp@5300 rpm, it stays over 90ft-lbs from 2700-4800 rpm, peaking at 98ft-lbs@4000rpm with the 103 motor.  I have, or will soon have, the following parts to install;

Screamin Eagle CNC heads with competition valve job
Cometic .040" MLS Head Gaskets
Screamin Eagle Stage III Pro kit (SE-585 Cam)
Screamin Eagle Cam Plate/High Volume Pump with Baisley Precision-Ground Bypass Plunger
Screamin Eagle Twin Cam Forged Rocker Supports
Screamin Eagle Roller Rockers
Screamin Eagle Tapered Adjustable Pushrods
Head Quarters Black Ops lifters - soon
HPI 55mm TB or Ported Stock TB - soon

The dilema is with the SE-585 Cam; 

1.  Will CCP be too high (Live on East Coast and ride all over the country and Canada)?
2.  Will detonation be a problem with the 10.5 CR Pistons requiring an excessive amount of timing advance removed, affecting low end torque?
3.  Do I really need to upgrade TB for this or just port patch and clean-up stock TB?
4.  Should I dyno with lower than 93 octane due to traveling through areas that don't have 93 octane?

Dealer assures me that they will cover the installation under extended warranty so HD parts have to be used.  I do most of my riding on the highway for extended periods at around 80 mph@3K rpms and frequently with wife at close to max load (AXEO Cartridges and Revo-A Suspension) so low end torque is most important but would like to crest the 100HP mark.

Any assistance or experiences given would be greatly appreciated.

R/S,

Tony G
ir Tony I am the last one to give advice on how to spend your money on Harley but I was up this morning pretty early and watched a u tube video of a aerocharger kit being installed on a stock 103 and it was pretty straight forward install . I think it doubled the power . To be honest I not sure how much it cost compared to say a 110 kit or what your doing sure looked cool though lol

Offline tonygiscwo4

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 03:52:45 PM »
1W,

Thanks for the insight but those kits start at 5K;

http://aerocharger.com/turbo-systems/motorcycles/harleydavidson/

I don't need that kind of power and I'm not sure about reliability on those 800-1000 mile days during the summer.

Tony G

Offline motolocopat

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 328
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2018, 11:00:09 AM »
Seems like your going down the wrong path if what you want is a touring ride for 800-1000 miles days at max load with wife onboard.
Big and Dumb seems like the ticket to me.
Forget the  . . . .
Screamin Eagle Cam Plate/High Volume Pump with Baisley Precision-Ground Bypass Plunger
Screamin Eagle Twin Cam Forged Rocker Supports
Screamin Eagle Roller Rockers
HPI 55mm TB

Do a drop on 110" with a CR/CCP that the max octane you would need would be is 91.
I would forget about the SE warranty and look for a Shop that actually gave me good advice
MotoLocoPat
2013FLHX 2010FXDF 2006 S2R1000 2004Adv950

Offline Timinator

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 81
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2018, 11:19:30 AM »
X2!!!
MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!!!

Offline sfmichael

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5068
  • Country: us
  • Hoping to build the next mighty 'mouse'
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2018, 11:30:11 AM »
Seems like your going down the wrong path if what you want is a touring ride for 800-1000 miles days at max load with wife onboard.
Big and Dumb seems like the ticket to me.
Forget the  . . . .
Screamin Eagle Cam Plate/High Volume Pump with Baisley Precision-Ground Bypass Plunger
Screamin Eagle Twin Cam Forged Rocker Supports
Screamin Eagle Roller Rockers
HPI 55mm TB

Do a drop on 110" with a CR/CCP that the max octane you would need would be is 91.
I would forget about the SE warranty and look for a Shop that actually gave me good advice


"SE585/SE CNC heads/ 110 drop on kit works well- 125-126TQ, 100-105 HP, depending on pipe/AC.  Don't need forged rocker supports or roller rockers. SE58TB works and it's cheaper.
Get the coverage in writing from the dealer, because the ESP company won't - They are only obligated to cover the parts registered on the SWR."

rigidthumper


there seems to be an echo in here  :soda:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline ghillman

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
  • Country: us
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2018, 02:19:59 PM »
Good day all!  I have  '14 Ultra Stage 1, S&S Power Tune Duals and V&H Monster Ovals.  It dynoed at 83hp@5300 rpm, it stays over 90ft-lbs from 2700-4800 rpm, peaking at 98ft-lbs@4000rpm with the 103 motor.  I have, or will soon have, the following parts to install;

Screamin Eagle CNC heads with competition valve job
Cometic .040" MLS Head Gaskets
Screamin Eagle Stage III Pro kit (SE-585 Cam)
Screamin Eagle Cam Plate/High Volume Pump with Baisley Precision-Ground Bypass Plunger
Screamin Eagle Twin Cam Forged Rocker Supports
Screamin Eagle Roller Rockers
Screamin Eagle Tapered Adjustable Pushrods
Head Quarters Black Ops lifters - soon
HPI 55mm TB or Ported Stock TB - soon

The dilema is with the SE-585 Cam; 

1.  Will CCP be too high (Live on East Coast and ride all over the country and Canada)?
2.  Will detonation be a problem with the 10.5 CR Pistons requiring an excessive amount of timing advance removed, affecting low end torque?
3.  Do I really need to upgrade TB for this or just port patch and clean-up stock TB?
4.  Should I dyno with lower than 93 octane due to traveling through areas that don't have 93 octane?

Dealer assures me that they will cover the installation under extended warranty so HD parts have to be used.  I do most of my riding on the highway for extended periods at around 80 mph@3K rpms and frequently with wife at close to max load (AXEO Cartridges and Revo-A Suspension) so low end torque is most important but would like to crest the 100HP mark.

Any assistance or experiences given would be greatly appreciated.

R/S,

Tony G

Running this cam  in a 117 Se drop in build. 92 CC head, 2.120 intake, .030 Cometic Gasket, Zero Deck Cyls
10.57-1 Static Compression   
9.96-1   Corrected 
209 CCP

No problem even when I had to run 91 octane . it will make some torque!.  Make sure you  have a good tune, tune it with 93 .  that will make it or break it. There is no substitute for an outstanding professional tune! 

Offline Matt C

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3288
  • Country: us
    • MCE Performance
Re: Screamin Eagle 585 Cam Concerns
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2018, 08:39:29 AM »
Seems like your going down the wrong path if what you want is a touring ride for 800-1000 miles days at max load with wife onboard.
Big and Dumb seems like the ticket to me.
Forget the  . . . .
Screamin Eagle Cam Plate/High Volume Pump with Baisley Precision-Ground Bypass Plunger
Screamin Eagle Twin Cam Forged Rocker Supports
Screamin Eagle Roller Rockers
HPI 55mm TB

Do a drop on 110" with a CR/CCP that the max octane you would need would be is 91.
I would forget about the SE warranty and look for a Shop that actually gave me good advice
That is great advice. Keep the comp on the lower side of the range for touring.
I would have a look at the S&S 110 drop in kit as well. And get it tuned with 91 fuel.
Life is like a roll of TP. The closer you get to the end the faster it goes.