Author Topic: Quik reving ?  (Read 2053 times)

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Offline Clayton24

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Quik reving ?
« on: December 11, 2017, 08:44:02 AM »
Whats everyones opinion on a good real quik reving engine combination 103-110 cuin? Thanks for all replies and info !

Online Coff 06

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 08:49:31 AM »
4” stroke.      :wink:           Coff 06
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Offline PC_Hater

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 10:05:00 AM »
And lighter flywheels, or crank if you prefer to call it that.

1942 WLA45 chop, 1999 FLTR(not I), 2000 1200S

Offline Scott P

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 10:14:52 AM »
Regardless of the size, the most torque, the soonest, will create a "quick reving" engine.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 10:37:51 AM »
A turbo will make it very quick revving.
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Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 11:12:53 AM »
As said above, if you want it to rev fast, lighten the wheels.

But I'm thinking you were meaning something else.

Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 11:19:06 AM »
To thermodyne - thats what i meant to rev quik

Offline kd

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2017, 11:23:57 AM »
Regardless of the size, the most torque, the soonest, will create a "quick reving" engine.


 :agree:  In real life, without good torque you can't overcome the weight of the bike and it will only rev as fast as you can make the rear wheel rotate. We're not talking about a static engine being rev'd up in neutral here. That has no real value with moving a heavy motorcycle down the road (or strip)
KD

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 11:33:02 AM »
Correct. Sport bikes are very quick revving from 9000 to 16,000 rpm's. Not much help on a bagger.
If you look in the dyno section, you will see combos that bring the torque up very early and keep it there, or even continue to climb. Combine that with the higher horsepower builds, and those will be the quick revving motors.
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Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 11:40:54 AM »
I appreciate everyones opinion and info !

Online Prostock

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 12:24:43 PM »
Power up front will make the bike feel alot lighter, "quick reving".  Some up front high torque builds you are looking immediately for second, third, ect :SM:

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2017, 01:25:50 PM »
Whats everyones opinion on a good real quik reving engine combination 103-110 cuin? Thanks for all replies and info !

bagger or softtail/dyna ?

what are you starting with ?

Budget ?

Offline No Cents

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 02:55:17 PM »
Regardless of the size, the most torque, the soonest, will create a "quick reving" engine.

 :agree:   100%
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Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 03:20:12 PM »
To thermodyne - thats what i meant to rev quik

The torque curve will be the biggest factor followed by the weight of the bike/rider. The more weight you have there the less of a difference lightening the flywheels will actually make when in gear riding.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2017, 08:13:53 PM »
I have a 15’ ultra limited stripped down close to a streetglide,103 with 57h cams fuel moto open breather, power vision and gutted head pipe . Runnin on a base map it pulled 94hp and 109 tq when i did the dyno run jus to see if i was makin decent progress it had rc 4.5” slip ons which i found out are lowend torque killers. It was very soft on the bottom so i changed to crusher mellows and wow what a diffrence in lowend torque ! Now i have aquired a set of se cnc pro factory twin cooled heads im gonna install with a 0.30 head gasket an set to desired compression ! Is this engine combination worth a shot or should i go a diffrent route? Or will this more than likeley b well worth the effort etc ? Thanks for all replies and info oh an forgot im gonna have it dyno tuned when completed! Thanks

Offline PC_Hater

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2017, 10:47:10 PM »
To thermodyne - thats what i meant to rev quik

The torque curve will be the biggest factor followed by the weight of the bike/rider. The more weight you have there the less of a difference lightening the flywheels will actually make when in gear riding.

Lighter flywheels are often used on tuned car engines, and were 'the' thing on older Moto Guzzi's. Modern Guzzi's come with the lighter flywheels as standard - even the far too big and heavy ones.

If you want a chug-a-lug motor don't do it, for quick revving on a road bike do it.
1942 WLA45 chop, 1999 FLTR(not I), 2000 1200S

Offline Scott P

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 05:18:55 AM »
Light wheels are the long way around the barn.
Torque will trump lightweight wheels.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline dirty jim

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 05:50:57 AM »
How does that (More low end torque) translate to a V-rod?

Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2017, 06:14:43 AM »
Id say the huge diffrence in weight !

Offline PC_Hater

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2017, 01:48:43 PM »
How does that (More low end torque) translate to a V-rod?
cams. etc.
The V-Rod wasn't built as a stump-pulling low-end grunt motor.
And for the avoidance of doubt:-
 the weight of the crank has nothing whatsoever to do with torque. Nothing. Can feel nice to ride though.
1942 WLA45 chop, 1999 FLTR(not I), 2000 1200S

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 02:43:16 PM »
With the weight of Harleys I doubt you can feel the difference from lightened flywheels even with the best but dyno.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Online rhuff

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 09:48:59 PM »
But the real question is, does your wallet feel it?

Online sfmichael

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2017, 10:09:09 PM »
I have a 15’ ultra limited stripped down close to a streetglide,103 with 57h cams fuel moto open breather, power vision and gutted head pipe . Runnin on a base map it pulled 94hp and 109 tq when i did the dyno run jus to see if i was makin decent progress it had rc 4.5” slip ons which i found out are lowend torque killers. It was very soft on the bottom so i changed to crusher mellows and wow what a diffrence in lowend torque ! Now i have aquired a set of se cnc pro factory twin cooled heads im gonna install with a 0.30 head gasket an set to desired compression ! Is this engine combination worth a shot or should i go a diffrent route? Or will this more than likeley b well worth the effort etc ? Thanks for all replies and info oh an forgot im gonna have it dyno tuned when completed! Thanks

As long as you keep the compression the same or higher, the bike will make more power.

Will it be worth the effort? Only you can decide that. Those heads work pretty good.
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline Fisherking

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 05:46:48 AM »
Whats everyones opinion on a good real quik reving engine combination 103-110 cuin? Thanks for all replies and info !
Im looking at going 107 all bore from my 95" build quike out of the hole and not as much lateral tourk on the rods.piston speed not as fast with logivity I hope .

 F.K.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 10:25:21 AM »
Look at the S&S 111 inch motor. Up the compression, lighten the fly wheels and better cam for the low end torque. Lighten  any/every thing that rotates . Square bore or over bore helps a lot.
Just do it while you can.

Offline 1workinman

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2017, 01:48:23 PM »
Whats everyones opinion on a good real quik reving engine combination 103-110 cuin? Thanks for all replies and info !
  Sir after spending a couple of dollars on these Harleys if I were going to just build one engine and I wanted it to make horse power and a lot of torque after seeing what a turbo brings to the table lol and If it was geared up a tad it might do ok on mileage . I never owned a turbo Harley but they sure make power lol Might consider one some day

Offline Matt C

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2017, 03:35:22 PM »
Quick reving as in snappy throttle response?

That get's back to the other thread. Maintaining high velocity in the intake tract is what's going to give
you the instantaneous throttle response you seek. With the velocity up, the cylinders are already filling at
high efficiency rather than waiting for the RPMs get things moving for you.

Disclaimer: This is all just my stupid opinion and should not be taken seriously.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 03:42:23 PM by Matt C »

Online sfmichael

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2018, 11:16:40 PM »
Quick reving as in snappy throttle response?

That get's back to the other thread. Maintaining high velocity in the intake tract is what's going to give
you the instantaneous throttle response you seek.
With the velocity up, the cylinders are already filling at
high efficiency rather than waiting for the RPMs get things moving for you.

Disclaimer: This is all just my stupid opinion and should not be taken seriously.

Yes, relatively short duration cam that you already have...better mufflers you now have...and the the CNC heads at an adequate compression ratio, (along with a good dyno tune) will all work in harmony to provide the quick revving engine you seek


"Regardless of the size, the most torque, the soonest, will create a "quick reving" engine."
Scott P

see reply #3  :wink:
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Offline Deye76

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2018, 05:34:47 AM »
"Torque will trump lightweight wheels."

 :up: Years ago with limited cam choice, etc., lightening the flywheels was popular. As Scott says, "long way around the barn."
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Offline dsvracer

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2018, 06:04:03 AM »
Quick reving as in snappy throttle response?

That get's back to the other thread. Maintaining high velocity in the intake tract is what's going to give
you the instantaneous throttle response you seek. With the velocity up, the cylinders are already filling at
high efficiency rather than waiting for the RPMs get things moving for you.

Disclaimer: This is all just my stupid opinion and should not be taken seriously.
Having the ports in a cylinder head the correct size will give you the throttle response you are looking for.  Having ports to big will only make the bike slower and will not accelerate as fast.
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Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 11:06:40 PM »
 :up: well guys i took sum time and done sum work on my 15 ultra limited . I already had a gutted factory head pipe ,57h cams and crusher mellow mufflers with a powervision runnin a fuel moto base map and it ran decent ! I had i think rite around 10:1 factory compression . 103 cuin with pistons .006 in the hole head gasket measured .050 and 81cc heads ! The ccp from the test i did was 190 psi. So i went out on a limb and put the SE cnc factory heads i had on it with 79cc chambers and the pistons still .006 in the hole with a mls .027 head gasket for a tight squeeze and better flow and more compression ! Maybe to much but im gonna see how it turns out i got it back together and ran it sum it sounded pretty good but havent got a chance to ride it ! It will be alittle bit before i can take it for a good dyno tune which i kno is a must! Thanks for all the help and replies greatley appreciated ! I will keep the outcome posted .

Online sfmichael

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 11:27:15 PM »
:up: well guys i took sum time and done sum work on my 15 ultra limited . I already had a gutted factory head pipe ,57h cams and crusher mellow mufflers with a powervision runnin a fuel moto base map and it ran decent ! I had i think rite around 10:1 factory compression . 103 cuin with pistons .006 in the hole head gasket measured .050 and 81cc heads ! The ccp from the test i did was 190 psi. So i went out on a limb and put the SE cnc factory heads i had on it with 79cc chambers and the pistons still .006 in the hole with a mls .027 head gasket for a tight squeeze and better flow and more compression ! Maybe to much but im gonna see how it turns out i got it back together and ran it sum it sounded pretty good but havent got a chance to ride it ! It will be alittle bit before i can take it for a good dyno tune which i kno is a must! Thanks for all the help and replies greatley appreciated ! I will keep the outcome posted .

You've got a damn good tuner about 300 miles from you in Evansville, IA     Sheffer Perfomance HD
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Offline gordonr

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2018, 04:26:20 AM »
Quick reving can be measured. With whatever you choose for your build, (plenty of good advice here) measure a single run time on the dyno. I've started at a standard of 6 seconds over the years and work it back from there. 
"If was easy everyone would do it"

Offline Scott P

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 04:31:17 AM »
The ability to move the vehicle quickly, ie "quick reving", will be to manufacture as much torque, as soon as possible.
Matching the compression to the cam is #1.
Gearing will play a very important part in this, and yes, good cylinder heads will help, w/o saying.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline Fat11Lo

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2018, 04:44:09 AM »
You've got a damn good tuner about 300 miles from you in Evansville, IA     Sheffer Perfomance HD

 :agree:

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2018, 04:51:38 AM »
Quick reving can be measured. With whatever you choose for your build, (plenty of good advice here) measure a single run time on the dyno. I've started at a standard of 6 seconds over the years and work it back from there.

 :up: :up:
Using this method the difference between stock weight flywheels and lightened flywheels was less than the difference between a new street tire and a bald street tire.
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Offline Scott P

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2018, 06:21:00 AM »
Lightened flywheel assemblies/pork-chop style assemblies, are best set aside for maximum effort, drag strip type applications, as the cost vs, the results are lop-sided.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2018, 06:21:22 AM »
Sf michael - thats who im am planning on using i think he is about 5hrs. From me but i think it would be worth the trip and none are close to me ! Thanks  i am planning on eventualy when funds are there sending my stock heads to hillside and have them reworked ! And fwiw i kno my compression rite now may be alittle high but if any issues i see a diff cam in the future !  :chop:

Online rhuff

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2018, 08:52:48 AM »
Maybe too late as you already have it put together, but I'd do the heads now unless you're planning on doing very expensive headwork. You'll be paying for two dyno tunes versus one.  I don't know what others charge for a good dyno, but I *think* I just paid $300 this summer.  Your heads would cost what, maybe $600-700?  Don't do it twice unless you really have to....  Just trying to save you a few nickels in the spendy addiction.

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 09:58:25 PM »
Sf michael - thats who im am planning on using i think he is about 5hrs. From me but i think it would be worth the trip and none are close to me ! Thanks  i am planning on eventualy when funds are there sending my stock heads to hillside and have them reworked ! And fwiw i kno my compression rite now may be alittle high but if any issues i see a diff cam in the future !  :chop:

 :up:  it will be worth the trip   :up:

 :idea:   those SE heads work pretty good - anything can be improved upon but the gains will be minimal and maybe not even noticeable when riding...
        might show up on a dyno chart but doubt you'd feel the difference

:oil:  high compression is okay to a point and I think you'll be okay - definitely makes the bike snappy if the tune doesn't require pulling a massive amount of timing out of it

  :wink:    Daren will figure it out  :up: :up:
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Offline trex

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2018, 08:07:47 AM »
My bike sure feels like it's a quick rever. 4 in stroke big bore 95in. I hit the rev limiter set at 6200 too fast it seems when I'm jumpin on it.

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
[quote 4th author=trex link=topic=101806.msg1204606#msg1204606 date=1515686867]
My bike sure feels like it's a quick rever. 4 in stroke big bore 95in. I hit the rev limiter set at 6200 too fast it seems when I'm jumpin on it.
[/quote]




I agree. I have a 98” with a 4” stroke and it’s about as fast as you can shift of the rev limiter till you get to 4th,then you get a second before shifting to 5th.          Coff 06
06 FX Springer, 98",11/1,9B+4*,HPI 55/58 /5.3inj,
HDSP Pro Street heads,123/118

Offline trex

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2018, 09:52:11 AM »
[quote 4th author=trex link=topic=101806.msg1204606#msg1204606 date=1515686867]
My bike sure feels like it's a quick rever. 4 in stroke big bore 95in. I hit the rev limiter set at 6200 too fast it seems when I'm jumpin on it.




I agree. I have a 98” with a 4” stroke and it’s about as fast as you can shift of the rev limiter till you get to 4th,then you get a second before shifting to 5th.          Coff 06
[/quote]                                                                                                                                              That's exactly what it's like, as fast as I can shift and I just re checked my records my rev limiter is set at 6250.If I don't want to hit the limiter I have to consciously short shift

Online rhuff

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2018, 10:59:32 AM »
Ditto.  I have a 4" by 4.125" and my limiter is set the same as yours. 

Offline trex

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2018, 11:52:19 AM »
I like it and don't understand why shorter stroke motors are so unpopular here and with 4 valve heads why HD went with a long stroke motor. Seems like a 4in. stroke M8-107, M8-14 or M-117 would REALLY be a fun bike and I'm not talking about revving it to the sky, a limit around what I have at 6250 would be a lot more fun than the current M8's at 5500 or what ever they are.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2018, 11:57:57 AM »
The length of the stroke is not what is making your engines rev quicker. They rev quick because the make good power.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline Scott P

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2018, 12:57:57 PM »
Torque, gearing, and overall weight.
Period.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2018, 10:01:57 PM »
Quick reving can be measured. With whatever you choose for your build, (plenty of good advice here) measure a single run time on the dyno. I've started at a standard of 6 seconds over the years and work it back from there.
It can be measured

An underheaded high torque under square engine may not be the answer
Do some sweep testing on a engine Dyno you'll see what really works

Offline Fisherking

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2018, 04:03:14 AM »
My bike sure feels like it's a quick rever. 4 in stroke big bore 95in. I hit the rev limiter set at 6200 too fast it seems when I'm jumpin on it.
:up: :up:

 F.K.

Offline N-gin

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2018, 11:08:50 PM »
You can get a faster rev just by upping the comp.
lightening the crank will just make things vibrate more. I have a light crank I'm going back to heavy for a bigger build, It was fun on a 107 though.
I'm not here cause of a path before me, Im here cause of the burnout left behind

Offline kd

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2018, 04:19:57 AM »
Upping the comp increases torque.  :wink:
KD

Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2018, 01:12:54 PM »
Yes it does and im starting to think on these heavy baggers it takes as much torque as one can get starting as soon as possible ! Abd just moderate hp and the bike will run like hell. My 103 came alive after the crusher mellow’s and upgraded heads and more compression more than they say the little 57’s can handle but so far so good and im planning a trip to durwoods as soon as i can ! Thanks for all info and replies .

Offline Y2KRKNG

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2018, 06:45:45 AM »
Lower the mechanical leverage on the tire.
ATP(TurboHarry)95+.0XX",Mik45,Branch/Mik "Flowmetric" heads,S&S585G,96tq/105hp

Offline Clayton24

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2018, 07:46:38 AM »
As in? Smaller front pulley ?

Offline Y2KRKNG

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2018, 10:29:06 AM »
As in? Smaller front pulley ?
Yep or change both(F&R) depending on how low you want to go. You've got the 6 speed so HWY RPMS shouldn't be too much of a concern. Unless you really like 90+ cruising speeds I'd "gear her down".
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:17:00 PM by Y2KRKNG »
ATP(TurboHarry)95+.0XX",Mik45,Branch/Mik "Flowmetric" heads,S&S585G,96tq/105hp

Offline biggzed

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Re: Quik reving ?
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2018, 10:20:57 AM »
I love the way my bike accelerates with the 30 tooth trans pulley. Stock rear pulley on my 07.

Zach

As in? Smaller front pulley ?
Yep or change both(F&R) depending on how low you want to go. You've got the 6 speed so HWY RPMS shouldn't be too much of a concern. Unless you really like 90+ cruising speeds I'd "gear her down".