Author Topic: HD Six Speed Rebuild  (Read 1271 times)

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Offline Ohio HD

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HD Six Speed Rebuild
« on: December 16, 2017, 07:12:46 PM »
I'm getting as many parts together as I think I'll need in advance, to rebuild the six speed in my '08 touring bike. I have a Baker Street Door here, I have the Baker Timken style main drive gear kit on order with Phil, and I'm assembling a list of HD parts. Aside from all bearings, seals, and lock rings, is there anything in there that generally needs replaced? It shifts and holds in all gears, it's just getting a little sketchy when shifting hard under power. It has 68k miles on it.

I'm just trying to have most of what I need in advance.

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Offline Templer

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 08:02:25 PM »
The Baker Heavy duty throw out bearing. No need for the shift drum if it shifts and you can find neutral. They also sale what is called the heavy duty bearing kit. You NOW have a OEM /Baker/6sp WITHOUT GB gears or ratio change. Works for me with 135Sq Dyna 

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 09:10:09 PM »
Throw out bearing is new this past summer.

I wouldn't say it's even close to a GB.
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Offline misfitJason

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 10:44:33 AM »
I dont know if its a cheaper alternative but Jims makes a full rebuild kit for the newer six speeds
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 10:49:51 AM »
I did look at them as well as Baker has kits too. But since I'm installing a two Baker items that comes with bearings, seals, gaskets, etc., I really won't use the whole kit. So I'm ordering the misc. items from HD. That's why I'm ordering well ahead of needing them, as some of the items may be on back order.
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Offline HarleyFranco

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 11:48:36 AM »
Ohio,

Make sure you have a large snap ring pliers to remove snap ring, emphasize large.  I borrowed one from where I used to work and I though OMG this set of pliers is way to big, but it made it so easy to remove the ring.

Good luck.
Frank

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 12:53:44 PM »
Good point, I have a few sizes, but but a big one like that will need. I'll get one next week.  :up:
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Offline D-1

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 02:41:46 PM »
If its jumping out of gear on heavy shifts the 3-4 shift fork is probably worn a bit. I also find if the dog ring (21) has slightly rounded edges as well as the 3 and 4 gear it will jump gears too. Most problems ive seen are 3-4 shifting, or the main output bearing.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 02:48:31 PM »
Not jumping out of gear. Just not real positive shifts at higher RPM's. I think mostly the trap door bearings, and the main drive gear bearing allows the shafts to move in opposite directions due to helical cut gears. The added torque of the 124 is what made it show right away. Wasn't nearly this bad with the 117.
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Offline harleytuner

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 04:32:47 PM »
Are you using OEM seals?  If had issues with the main seal that comes in the Jim's rebuikd kit. 3 out of 3 leaked this past summer.  I still use the rebuild kits but pitch the seal and get them from the dealer, no issues on the other 4 I rebuilt this year
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 04:36:39 PM »
OEM seals, except the seal that comes with the Baker main drive gear Timken kit.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 05:05:56 PM »
At first I was thinking the OEM main drive seal was different than what the Baker main drive kit supplied. They show the main drive seal as 12074-67. Without looking, I assumed it was using an older four speed seal, based on the -67. But the six speed OEM seal is 12074. So it must be the same item, not sure why they show it as -67. Anyway, I'll probably use the OEM as Chad suggest.


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Offline Thermodyne

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 07:50:27 PM »
I would advise you not to pre order parts.

You get in there and find that the power shifts are sketchy because the dog teeth have rounded corners, and you might decide to go another way with it. 

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2017, 02:32:57 AM »
Even if I needs to replace the shafts, it's still way more cost effective than a new Baker transmission.
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Offline Yellow09SERG

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2017, 05:51:44 AM »
Ohio, what tools are needed to get the tranny out, or can the seals be replaced with out pulling the gearset? There seems to be a pink puddle of Redline that follows my bike no matter where I park it. I know I need a socket for the main drive pulley, what else is needed?

Offline harleytuner

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2017, 06:38:33 AM »
Ohio, what tools are needed to get the tranny out, or can the seals be replaced with out pulling the gearset? There seems to be a pink puddle of Redline that follows my bike no matter where I park it. I know I need a socket for the main drive pulley, what else is needed?

You can change the seals without pulling the gearset, you will also need tool to remove the inner bearing race.
Enjoying the hell out of my "hotted" up twincam

Offline Yellow09SERG

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 07:13:51 AM »
Ohio, what tools are needed to get the tranny out, or can the seals be replaced with out pulling the gearset? There seems to be a pink puddle of Redline that follows my bike no matter where I park it. I know I need a socket for the main drive pulley, what else is needed?

You can change the seals without pulling the gearset, you will also need tool to remove the inner bearing race.

Thank you. So the main drive socket and inner race puller should get me there

Offline harleytuner

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 07:33:21 AM »
Ohio, what tools are needed to get the tranny out, or can the seals be replaced with out pulling the gearset? There seems to be a pink puddle of Redline that follows my bike no matter where I park it. I know I need a socket for the main drive pulley, what else is needed?

You can change the seals without pulling the gearset, you will also need tool to remove the inner bearing race.

Thank you. So the main drive socket and inner race puller should get me there

There is also a seal driver that set the seals depth (#13 in Brians picture above).  The seal does not sit flush with the end of the mainshaft, it's recessed in.

If you are getting trans fluid leaking on the ground it is probably either the main seal ot the shifter shaft seal, for those you wouldn't need the inner bearing race tool or seal driver.  As a rule when I go in I change them all.  The seals themselves are inexpensive
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 07:36:44 AM »
OEM service manual is your friend.
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Offline Yellow09SERG

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 07:47:06 AM »
Ohio, what tools are needed to get the tranny out, or can the seals be replaced with out pulling the gearset? There seems to be a pink puddle of Redline that follows my bike no matter where I park it. I know I need a socket for the main drive pulley, what else is needed?

You can change the seals without pulling the gearset, you will also need tool to remove the inner bearing race.

Thank you. So the main drive socket and inner race puller should get me there

There is also a seal driver that set the seals depth (#13 in Brians picture above).  The seal does not sit flush with the end of the mainshaft, it's recessed in.

If you are getting trans fluid leaking on the ground it is probably either the main seal ot the shifter shaft seal, for those you wouldn't need the inner bearing race tool or seal driver.  As a rule when I go in I change them all.  The seals themselves are inexpensive

I am hoping to be able to dimensions on the seal driver and build one. I have access to a lathe

Offline Yellow09SERG

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2017, 07:51:35 AM »
OEM service manual is your friend.

Yes sir. Been reading through it, but with this pea brain I have all the pieces don't fit in my head till the pieces start hitting the floor

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2017, 10:29:06 AM »
Ohio, what tools are needed to get the tranny out, or can the seals be replaced with out pulling the gearset? There seems to be a pink puddle of Redline that follows my bike no matter where I park it. I know I need a socket for the main drive pulley, what else is needed?

True, but also much cheaper to go with a pulled gear set.  I see them around here in the $300 range.  Victims of the need for 7. 

Offline Ray G

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2017, 11:42:55 AM »
I put 93,000 miles on an 08 CVO Road King and I just hated the whine from 5th gear. Is that something you plan to address?

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2017, 11:48:55 AM »
No, I honestly can't hear it. I'm running a 124 with Boarzilla exhaust.
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Offline jsachs1

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2017, 03:05:15 PM »
Make a condom to put over the spline start area on the mainshaft so it doesn't damage the fragile seal when you're ready to slide it on the mainshaft.
Tape works great.
John

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2017, 03:41:51 PM »
Thanks John, I may use duct tape, it's kinda slick on the outside.
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Online kd

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2017, 07:27:09 PM »
Teflon pipe tape  :up:  Easy to remove too.
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2017, 10:00:51 AM »
Some of the stuff is rolling in.



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Offline rageglide

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2017, 07:32:21 PM »
Hey Brian what ratio are you going with on that chain drive conversion?

So far I've been happily over powering traction vs the belt.  But I keep thinking a chain would be smart swap...
Bob

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2017, 07:44:43 PM »
I'm at 3.063:1 now with an Evo industries 49 tooth clutch basket. If I add the new 24 tooth front and new 55 tooth rear I would have 3.303:1, a little low for me. So I'm changing the 49 tooth clutch basket for a Barnett 46 tooth basket, and with the new sprockets will have 3.100:1. That should be about right.


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Offline rageglide

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2017, 08:07:41 PM »
Right on.   3.30 would be nice if you had a grudge box.  But otherwise that RPM bump over stock would get old when you're used to running 3k at 80+.

Didn't realize you had the 49T clutch basket.  Seems like a 3.10 ratio is a good compromise for a street bike with a big motor.

btw this topic got my attention because i'm doing the same work.  trap door, main drive bearing, clutch bearing and support bearing.  Just got my parts yesterday.  Pussed out on the Baker main drive bearing/gear.  Almost bought a Strip Grudge box during Cyber week... but decided street door and a new MDG would have to suffice for now.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 03:11:05 AM »
I may also send my gear set to RC Performance to have gears back cut. I want to talk to them and see what they recommend doing.
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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2017, 06:29:04 AM »
Brian, I think the 24 / 51 combination will put you right back to where you are at 3.063. The 51 tooth sprocket seems to be available in everyone's package. In fact most companies selling conversion parts claim the 24 / 51 combination replaces the stock ratio. Big Boyz calculator confirms it with my numbers. That's the way I think I'll be going. I will say the 3.06 ratio is just about perfect for everything with my riding style (lots of highway AND around town).
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2017, 06:56:26 AM »
I'm using a 24 / 55 combo. I use the old math calculator.    :smilep:


(46/34) x (55/24) = 3.100
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Offline No Cents

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 06:59:41 AM »
 I've ran a 3.055 gearing for the last two years. It's perfect for me.
Brian I'm sure you will like the 3.100 gearing for as much riding as you do.

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Offline GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 07:14:17 AM »
Brian

Is that rear an aluminum version ?/. . I have had them shed teeth on the dyno .. Steel is the only way to go .. The one that did not break did not last very long . Ran one on my other bike and it wore out very fast . No warranty was what I was told on the teeth coming off  . only hit 175 Hp on that one as well .
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Online kd

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 07:25:15 AM »
I'm using a 24 / 55 combo. I use the old math calculator.    :smilep:


(46/34) x (55/24) = 3.100



I certainly didn't intend to imply your combination was wrong. The 3.10 is very close to what you have with the 49 tooth Evo basket and you probably won't even notice a difference. My comment was just to note that you had a deadly basket now and probably could save the cost of changing to the Barnett by using a 51 rear sprocket instead. I'm sure you knew that any way.

The final ratio 3.055 t0 3.10 is deadly on the highway because you are running in the peak torque area, get good mileage there and have to hold on when aggressively passing.  :SM:  It also makes the around town stuff work well too.
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2017, 07:46:18 AM »
Brian

Is that rear an aluminum version ?/. . I have had them shed teeth on the dyno .. Steel is the only way to go .. The one that did not break did not last very long . Ran one on my other bike and it wore out very fast . No warranty was what I was told on the teeth coming off  . only hit 175 Hp on that one as well .

Steve, it's the steel sprocket, zinc plated. Yeah we couldn't even get dirt bikes with aluminum sprockets to fold up way back when.

At the present time I have no worries about 175hp, but one never knows what might change.     :teeth:

   
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2017, 07:47:23 AM »
I'm using a 24 / 55 combo. I use the old math calculator.    :smilep:


(46/34) x (55/24) = 3.100



I certainly didn't intend to imply your combination was wrong. The 3.10 is very close to what you have with the 49 tooth Evo basket and you probably won't even notice a difference. My comment was just to note that you had a deadly basket now and probably could save the cost of changing to the Barnett by using a 51 rear sprocket instead. I'm sure you knew that any way.

The final ratio 3.055 t0 3.10 is deadly on the highway because you are running in the peak torque area, get good mileage there and have to hold on when aggressively passing.  :SM:  It also makes the around town stuff work well too.

Oh, there's always a meaning to my madness.    :smiled:


 
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2017, 07:48:49 AM »
I've ran a 3.055 gearing for the last two years. It's perfect for me.
Brian I'm sure you will like the 3.100 gearing for as much riding as you do.

(Attachment Link)

I think it'll feel good, not a lot of difference as to what I have now, maybe 250 rpm.
 
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2017, 08:21:08 AM »
This is a Zippers kit, has everything needed. I know I can source this for a little less, but I kept them on the phone a couple of times discussing the kit, so I felt I should buy it from them. Only seemed fair.


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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2017, 09:35:53 AM »
Ohio, that is the way I do business too. Give me some time and effort, I will give you my business. I do not shop on price differences, especially small ones. And, you know they will back you should there be a problem.
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2018, 07:48:42 PM »
More parts arriving for the transmission rebuild / upgrade. Still hovering around 0 F outside, to cold to contemplate actual work yet.


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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2018, 09:27:58 AM »
Ohio, that is the way I do business too. Give me some time and effort, I will give you my business. I do not shop on price differences, especially small ones. And, you know they will back you should there be a problem.

Me too. I have a small expresso maker that I take on bike camping trips. I bought it probably 45 years ago for about $20. A new one today is $125. Anyway the gasket on the lid went bad. I tried replacing it with an O ring but it leaked under pressure. In the meantime the strainer under it was lost. I was able to get ahold of the company by email. The gasket is available as a spare part but the strainer isn't. The company rep says to order the part and give him the order number and he would throw in a strainer. I was really impressed so I added some cookware to the order. BTW the company is GSI, they make and sell all kinds of camping equipment specializing in backpacking which works well on motorcycles. Customer service goes a long way.
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Offline build it

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2018, 10:20:19 AM »
Nice write up so far, Ohio.
put down the ducky

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2018, 12:55:52 PM »
What did you find out on the backcutting?

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2018, 01:08:24 PM »
RC Performance said, and I quote, "we don't work on many HD transmissions". So I take it that they aren't interested. I'll just rebuild, update, and replace any needed parts, she'll be fine.   
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Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2018, 01:17:48 PM »
More parts arriving for the transmission rebuild / upgrade. Still hovering around 0 F outside, to cold to contemplate actual work yet.

That's your own damn fault for delaying the move...66 here right now 1pm,  low tonight 50...been in the 70's the last few days.  Have fun Brian!

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2018, 01:24:51 PM »
More parts arriving for the transmission rebuild / upgrade. Still hovering around 0 F outside, to cold to contemplate actual work yet.

That's your own damn fault for delaying the move...66 here right now 1pm,  low tonight 50...been in the 70's the last few days.  Have fun Brian!

   :hyst:    I'm not blaming anyone but me....   

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Offline jsachs1

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2018, 03:30:37 PM »
Be sure to heat that case when doing the maindrive bearing assy.
John

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2018, 03:33:27 PM »
Thanks John,  will. I appreciate the tips.

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2018, 03:37:39 PM »
When you look at the Baker double timken it makes you wonder why someone at HD didn't think of doing that a long time ago. then maybe they did and were shot down by the ruling cheapskate bean counting department, we'll never know.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2018, 03:43:50 PM »
I agree, it's really good design, and would have been great if HD had supplied them this way. I'm sure it was cost that ever kept anything like these from being a factory design.
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Offline skunk

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Re: HD Six Speed Rebuild
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2018, 03:50:05 PM »
More parts arriving for the transmission rebuild / upgrade. Still hovering around 0 F outside, to cold to contemplate actual work yet.


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Good to see the Street Doors are starting to show up, ordered one and a T/O bearing kit just after Thanksgiving and was told they would properly ship after the holidays. Kinda like winter here (Denver area) also so not a problem. Hoping to grab a OD7 or a GB next black Friday.