Author Topic: lower exhaust stud broke  (Read 650 times)

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Offline DYankee

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lower exhaust stud broke
« on: December 18, 2017, 01:06:43 PM »
I started to get a bunch of noise off the right side of the motor coming home yesterday. Checked it out and the lower exhaust stud is broke off in the head.

It's right behind the frame downtube and there is no way to get a drill to it to try an easyout on.

I held that side of the exhaust collar in as tight as I could and tightened the other nut up on it. It sounds a lot better, but there is a bit of a rattle that is probably the exhaust pipe.

Any way I could just leave it like that until I need to pull the head for a top end? I don't think there is an exhaust leak now and it would be nice to leave it be. On the other hand, I'm off until Jan 8th, so if it needs to be taken care of, this would be a good time to getter done.

Any comments?
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 01:14:36 PM »
You can get in there, but it takes a longer than normal drill bit, and you may need to jack the motor up or down to gain clearance from the frame. Using the Jim's 1705 exhaust drill plate helps a bunch.

Check your exhaust mounts at the transmission. They can come loose and the result can be the studs in the heads break.


http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=90376.msg1039969#msg1039969


http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=101511.msg1193253#msg1193253
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 01:31:30 PM by Ohio HD »
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Offline Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 01:20:53 PM »
Is there enough stud sticking out to weld a nut on it?
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Offline DYankee

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 03:47:53 PM »
Is there enough stud sticking out to weld a nut on it?

No, It's broke inside the head.
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Offline DYankee

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 03:49:10 PM »
You can get in there, but it takes a longer than normal drill bit, and you may need to jack the motor up or down to gain clearance from the frame. Using the Jim's 1705 exhaust drill plate helps a bunch.

Check your exhaust mounts at the transmission. They can come loose and the result can be the studs in the heads break.


http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=90376.msg1039969#msg1039969

Thanks Ohio as always, you have been very helpful. I'll look into that.

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Offline koko3052

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2017, 08:20:22 PM »
Is there enough stud sticking out to weld a nut on it?

No, It's broke inside the head.

A GOOD welder could weld that out!

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 08:45:00 PM »
Is there enough stud sticking out to weld a nut on it?

No, It's broke inside the head.

A GOOD welder could weld that out!

If I had a dime for every time I heard that working has a welder I would be rich.   :hyst:
You might be able to put a small pipe nipple with a hole just under stud size and weld it to the stud being the head is aluminium. Let it cool real slow and turn it out after, if it doesn't turn out with your fingers let it sit with some penetrating oil overnight. Be patient let it cool naturally don't help it you will make it brittle. It should shrink it and relieve the threads. This is all if you find a good welder that wants to under take the pain in the ass job it would be. Oh and good welders with equipment go for $100 hr plus.   Bob

Offline DYankee

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 03:50:43 AM »
That's something to think about. I've got a cousin that teaches welding at a local university.
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Offline DYankee

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 04:29:21 AM »
You can get in there, but it takes a longer than normal drill bit, and you may need to jack the motor up or down to gain clearance from the frame. Using the Jim's 1705 exhaust drill plate helps a bunch.

Check your exhaust mounts at the transmission. They can come loose and the result can be the studs in the heads break.


http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=90376.msg1039969#msg1039969

I got out to the garage and checked things over this morning. You were right on the money. I've had a few drops of oil leaking on the floor (some of it was definitely pink) and was wondering where it was coming from. This morning I could see the bracket on the transmission is wet with oil.

I'm thinking pulling the head may be the easiest thing to do now.

Thanks again for the help.

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=101511.msg1193253#msg1193253
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Online PoorUB

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 04:37:34 AM »
I'm thinking pulling the head may be the easiest thing to do now.

Thanks again for the help.

The tranny bolts are the easy part. I would gladly mess with them over the exhaust stud. You will have the exhaust off any way. My 2010 backed out the tranny bolts. I just cleaned them off, cleaned out the holes and reinstalled them without changing the gasket, never leaked after that.

You should be able to get the broken stud without pulling the head. You might have to pull the top mount and force the engie to the right to get some room. Perhaps find a small angle drill, but i would pull the head only as a last resort.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 05:04:28 AM »
You can get in there, but it takes a longer than normal drill bit, and you may need to jack the motor up or down to gain clearance from the frame. Using the Jim's 1705 exhaust drill plate helps a bunch.

Check your exhaust mounts at the transmission. They can come loose and the result can be the studs in the heads break.


http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=90376.msg1039969#msg1039969



http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=101511.msg1193253#msg1193253

I got out to the garage and checked things over this morning. You were right on the money. I've had a few drops of oil leaking on the floor (some of it was definitely pink) and was wondering where it was coming from. This morning I could see the bracket on the transmission is wet with oil.

I'm thinking pulling the head may be the easiest thing to do now.

Thanks again for the help.




I would try to clean the two lower bolt holes that the exhaust bracket runs through with brake clean, get them spotless. There's a service bulletin that gives an updated torque for these bolts, I think it's now 25 ft lbs. and LOTS of blue loctite. I also used a safety wire so they can't screw out on me. But they should hold fine if torqued and using blue loctite.

As I said, the head can be done on the bike, you just need to be patient and use the Jim's drill fixture in order to keep everything aligned correctly.

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Offline DYankee

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 05:24:18 AM »
One more question. Will I need to drain the transmission to be able to get the bolt holes cleaned out?
I just changed the fluid out because I suspected the drain plug O ring may have been leaking. I used my last quart of Redline when I changed it.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 05:26:03 AM »
No, they're blind holes, you won't loose fluid through them.
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Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 05:41:26 AM »
Use the Jims drill jig and a new high quality drill bit

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 08:13:34 AM »
Use the Jims drill jig and a new high quality drill bit

This is what I would try personally with a left handed drill bit before any thing else.  Bob

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 08:19:01 AM »
Use the Jims drill jig and a new high quality drill bit

This is what I would try personally with a left handed drill bit before any thing else.  Bob

A lot harder to find a long left handed drill bit. I needed a 9" bit to get in there around the frame.
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Offline FXDBI

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 08:46:55 AM »
Use the Jims drill jig and a new high quality drill bit

This is what I would try personally with a left handed drill bit before any thing else.  Bob

A lot harder to find a long left handed drill bit. I needed a 9" bit to get in there around the frame.

Easy enough to weld a piece of drill rod on the end in a angle iron to extend it.  Bob

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 09:52:35 AM »
Use the Jims drill jig and a new high quality drill bit

This is what I would try personally with a left handed drill bit before any thing else.  Bob

A lot harder to find a long left handed drill bit. I needed a 9" bit to get in there around the frame.

Easy enough to weld a piece of drill rod on the end in a angle iron to extend it.  Bob

My guess is the the OP isn't equipped to do that at home.

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Offline FXDBI

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2017, 10:00:45 AM »
Use the Jims drill jig and a new high quality drill bit

This is what I would try personally with a left handed drill bit before any thing else.  Bob

A lot harder to find a long left handed drill bit. I needed a 9" bit to get in there around the frame.

Easy enough to weld a piece of drill rod on the end in a angle iron to extend it.  Bob

My guess is the the OP isn't equipped to do that at home.

His cousin that teaches welding should be able to tig it together for him instead of trying to weld the stud. Just cant beat them left hand drill pulling broken bolts.  Bob

Offline Matt C

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2017, 10:32:01 AM »
Several ways to skin this cat. I'd take the head off if it was me. B/c you could spend a bunch
of time jacking with it (and possibly ruining the head) and end up pulling it anyway.

I've taken these out before by TIG welding some build up on top of the stud then welding a nut
to it.  You need to let it cool completely after that. Then, apply some heat to the aluminum
while you wrench out the nut/stud. It should come out fairly easily b/c the heat from the TIG will
have helped break the bond.

The problem with drilling it is, unless you're dead on center and straight, you'll screw it up to the
point where it will never come out. Drilling is certainly an option, but you don't have any room for
error. (It's got to be centered and dead nuts straight into the broken stud).

Either procedure will likely require the head to be removed to do it right. Think of it this way; It's
gonna have to come off anyway if you screw it up. The difference is, you'll need another head in 
case you don't drill it perfectly straight (and centered).

Feeling lucky?

PS: If you have the Jims tool, your odds are allot higher (on or off the bike)

PPS: If you break a drill bit or easy-out in there, you're totally pooched.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 10:48:51 AM by MCE Performance »
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2017, 12:13:57 PM »
Wheni worked in the aircraft shop we broke studs all the time. The boss would position a nut over the stud and TIG it. We would unscrew it immediately. The heat also expanded the aluminum which expands more than the steel stud. They come right out. He would be more irritated by having to stop what he was doing rather than having to deal with a broken stud. He did it many many times and I never saw one fail or a $1000 engine case messed up. A good welder can have it out for you in a couple of minutes.
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Offline Matt C

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 04:48:11 AM »
Wheni worked in the aircraft shop we broke studs all the time. The boss would position a nut over the stud and TIG it. We would unscrew it immediately. The heat also expanded the aluminum which expands more than the steel stud. They come right out. He would be more irritated by having to stop what he was doing rather than having to deal with a broken stud. He did it many many times and I never saw one fail or a $1000 engine case messed up. A good welder can have it out for you in a couple of minutes.
kk
:agree:

That usually works. (taking it out while it's still hot). But not always.
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Offline Fisherking

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 04:56:07 AM »
Wheni worked in the aircraft shop we broke studs all the time. The boss would position a nut over the stud and TIG it. We would unscrew it immediately. The heat also expanded the aluminum which expands more than the steel stud. They come right out. He would be more irritated by having to stop what he was doing rather than having to deal with a broken stud. He did it many many times and I never saw one fail or a $1000 engine case messed up. A good welder can have it out for you in a couple of minutes.
kk
Yes use the nut and tig weld inside the nut , Plug weld .

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 05:31:46 AM »
You can set the nut up in a drill press, vice or a lathe and counter drill a tapered hole into the threads that goes almost to the bottom. It will give you a little extra room to get the electrode wire into the bottom of the nut where you want to weld to the stud. DO remember to disconnect the battery, ecm and put the ground lead to the head as close to the weld site as possible.
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Offline BVHOG

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 05:49:45 AM »
Get the jims tool and forget the welding thing, easy enough to loosen motor mounts and even go so far as to unbolt the swing arm brackets to get clearance for drill. I have done a bunch of them and for the most part the welding is a 50/50 proposition.
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Offline GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2017, 06:26:49 AM »
We all have seen where some of the studs come right out and others  Will not.. Have had heads that you need to remove the studs and WOW heat oil etc  and they are a mother to get out.. . The drill jig works but the bit they send you with it is not a great fit in the insert so it can drill off center .  It can be done on the bike with a little work
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Offline DYankee

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Re: lower exhaust stud broke
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2017, 11:23:26 AM »
I've been going back and forth on this. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to pull the head. I talked to my cousin (the welder) and he says the head needs to come off for him to try that approach.

The stud is broke off close to 1/4" inside of the head. I'm thinking the safest thing would be to pull the head and get a 4" left hand bit. Then worst case I'd bring it in to the model shop at work and get one of them to drill it out oversized, and either put in an insert.

 :scratch: On the other hand, it would be nice not to have to pull the head. I've just got to figure out which drill bit to order so I'll be ready when the Jim's part comes in.
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