Author Topic: 88 inch cam choice  (Read 1844 times)

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Offline Gerry Smith

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88 inch cam choice
« on: December 27, 2017, 04:11:41 PM »
What would be a better cam for a stock 88 inch soft tail Andrews 26 or the Andrews 54 cam. Willing to do head work and a Vance & Hines 2 into 1 pipe. Better than stock air cleaner. :fish:
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 04:12:23 PM »
Andrews 21....           :fish:

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Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 04:22:04 PM »
Why the 21?
Just do it while you can.

Offline Matt C

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 04:36:20 PM »
Is it a light bike? One up/Two?

37s always worked great in 88s. With a little compression bump, you'd have
a decent running 88. Add in a better valve and a pocket port, you'd have a
really good running 88. Just depends on how you ride it and where you want
the power...

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 04:47:54 PM »
The 21 will fall off to quick. One up most of the time. Just want to wake it up and run with the newer bikes a little closer when bar hopping so called . Some highway riding too.
Just do it while you can.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 04:53:22 PM »
My bad NOT 54  cam but the 48 cam. The 37 might not be to bad too.
Just do it while you can.

Offline tbird

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 06:13:56 PM »
S&S 509's seem to be the flavor of the month for 88's I put a set in a bike that previously has Andrews 26's. Bike runs well.

Offline Matt C

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 06:16:00 PM »
My bad NOT 54  cam but the 48 cam. The 37 might not be to bad too.


The 37 with mild port work and a better valve would really wake that thing up. I had one 10 years
ago and it would hang with 110s up to about 70-80mph. Some of that may have been the rider
but it ran strong. What year is it?

Offline Hossamania

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 07:47:49 PM »
We're doing a 509 in a friend's RoadKing this winter, but he is not doing heads.
If you're willing to do some head work, it really opens up your options. Talk to your porter for his recommendations.
And, as long as it's that far apart, a 95" big bore isn't much more work..... Just sayin'...
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Online sfmichael

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2017, 09:20:11 PM »
what year is the bike?
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Offline Carl 1969

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 11:44:55 PM »
I'm putting Redshift 511s in my '02. Looks like they work well both at 88" & 95", if I decide to go that route in the future.
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Offline Scott P

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 03:17:44 AM »
Andrews 21, or S&S .509.
Not an opinion.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 03:44:16 AM »
Sfmich The bike is a 01 and doesn't ride 2 up much at all. Looking at the 37 cam with head work.
Just do it while you can.

Offline BVHOG

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 05:26:50 AM »
509 is a great cam but if I were going to have the heads done I would adjust the compression and go with the 48
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Offline rking1550

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 08:13:22 AM »
509 is a great cam but if I were going to have the heads done I would adjust the compression and go with the 48
 
 :up:   :agree:
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Offline Matt C

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 09:43:22 AM »
Sfmich The bike is a 01 and doesn't ride 2 up much at all. Looking at the 37 cam with head work.

Good choice. Those early heads really benefit from port work (allot). The EX port is very restrictive
on those things and a better intake valve will work wonders.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 10:28:47 AM »
I look through the Dynos and didn't see any one using the 37 cams. I would like to see where they might be at on the torque.
Just do it while you can.

Offline djl

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 11:49:45 AM »
Unless the OP  plans on headwork to allow cams with higher lift, he is limited to cams like the 509 or 21.  in that case, the 509 has been getting good reports from Stage 1 users.  The 37 will be soft on the bottom with stock compression.

Headwork? Many more options and the 48 probably as good as any. :wink:

Offline CndUltra88

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 12:19:46 PM »
Roadcling has SE204 that do him well.
Just needs a better choice of exhaust pipe if you ask me (cling that is)
Alohaaa !

Rob
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Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 12:34:08 PM »
There is going to be head work done and the compression set for what cam is going in. Not looking for a drag bike.
Just do it while you can.

Offline jeffscycle

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2017, 12:37:02 PM »
   If the heads aren't coming off, S&S509 are my Fav. I've even used them on re-decked (-.050) top end freshen ups, and they pull damn good even though the mid-range. Customers are happy, and that's what counts.
'01 FXDXT, '99 FXDL/XRD, '76 FLH

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2017, 12:40:04 PM »
The heads will be setup for the higher valve lift too. Any Dyno runs on the 47 cams?
Just do it while you can.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2017, 12:42:39 PM »
OOPS 37 cams for the Dyno graph.
Just do it while you can.

Offline hotbo

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2017, 12:50:23 PM »
I ran 37s in a stock(intake and Thunderheader) dyna WG. 17 years ago.I ran it like that for 2 years and it ran fine.a little soft down lown on the roll on in the upper gears but still did fine and i didnt mind using them gears(downshifting) thats what they are for!!! after the 2 years i had it bored to 95" and had some head work done with compression set to the cams liking. it ran freaking night and day different!!! power every where.i enjoyed beating on that little ole motor for 10 years after that... i put it on a trailer dyno @ a meet once and it made 100hp and 97lbs of torque( could have been a lying ass dyno! who cares i was happy with it @ the time.Best of luck,Travis
03 fatty 124"  S&S Super G/Bored w/T-jet,Dragos Softail Exh.

Offline jeffscycle

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2017, 01:03:39 PM »
   37's are great for 95" with a little more squash. I feel if your pulling & working the heads, why not 95"?
'01 FXDXT, '99 FXDL/XRD, '76 FLH

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2017, 01:13:43 PM »
I am talking to the guy about the 95 inch. I told him get the top end all fresh and have plenty of power to run with the new 103 inch air cooled bikes.
Just do it while you can.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2017, 01:17:17 PM »
I am talking to the guy to go 95 inch. Bigger bore and better pistons and rings. It should run good.
Just do it while you can.

Offline koko3052

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2017, 01:37:23 PM »
May as well go for a little headwork & then the cam to match it all!  :SM: :potstir:

Offline wolf_59

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2017, 03:09:52 PM »
In the DYNO section click on the archive link and do a search for "37" and you'll find some sheets, some no longer show up but there still few
HTH

Offline BVHOG

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2017, 03:17:13 PM »
Did a ton of the 37 builds years ago when everyone was going to the "Bigbore" 95 inch kits. I still feel it is one of the best overall grinds ever made for the twincam 4 inch stroke motor.  I used to set the CC's at 83 and use a 30 gasket and manual comp releases for hot starts.  Don't have to go crazy on the 06 up heads, just a cleanup using stock valves and a good valve job.  These builds routinely made high 90's to 100 hp and 105 to 110 torque depending on exhaust. My nephew had this setup in his 06 Road King and he pulled a heavy trailer from WI to Montana/Wyoming/ Idaho over Beartooth pass etc. two up. Never a problem with low end power (Supertrapp Supermeg pipe)
 If you wait long enough someone will suggest a 98 and within another page you might be directed towards a 124 :teeth:
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2017, 03:35:02 PM »
Did a ton of the 37 builds years ago when everyone was going to the "Bigbore" 95 inch kits. I still feel it is one of the best overall grinds ever made for the twincam 4 inch stroke motor.  I used to set the CC's at 83 and use a 30 gasket and manual comp releases for hot starts.  Don't have to go crazy on the 06 up heads, just a cleanup using stock valves and a good valve job.  These builds routinely made high 90's to 100 hp and 105 to 110 torque depending on exhaust. My nephew had this setup in his 06 Road King and he pulled a heavy trailer from WI to Montana/Wyoming/ Idaho over Beartooth pass etc. two up. Never a problem with low end power (Supertrapp Supermeg pipe)
 If you wait long enough someone will suggest a 98 and within another page you might be directed towards a 124 :teeth:

    :up:         :smilep:     

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Offline PoorUB

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2017, 07:00:35 PM »
If pulling the heads going to a 95" is not even a question!! If he is getting the heads reworked he can get them setup to run higher lift cams as well, then bore the cases for a 124"! :hyst:
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline hotbo

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2017, 07:59:56 PM »
Did a ton of the 37 builds years ago when everyone was going to the "Bigbore" 95 inch kits. I still feel it is one of the best overall grinds ever made for the twincam 4 inch stroke motor.  I used to set the CC's at 83 and use a 30 gasket and manual comp releases for hot starts.  Don't have to go crazy on the 06 up heads, just a cleanup using stock valves and a good valve job.  These builds routinely made high 90's to 100 hp and 105 to 110 torque depending on exhaust. My nephew had this setup in his 06 Road King and he pulled a heavy trailer from WI to Montana/Wyoming/ Idaho over Beartooth pass etc. two up. Never a problem with low end power (Supertrapp Supermeg pipe)
 If you wait long enough someone will suggest a 98 and within another page you might be directed towards a 124 :teeth:

 I agree with the 37s being a excellent choice for the 95-98 build! love these little cams... to the OP poster. go 95 and have at least a good valve job with the CC set up for the cams! you will really enjoy it,Travis  :beer:
03 fatty 124"  S&S Super G/Bored w/T-jet,Dragos Softail Exh.

Offline kd

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2017, 02:29:01 PM »
If pulling the heads going to a 95" is not even a question!! If he is getting the heads reworked he can get them setup to run higher lift cams as well, then bore the cases for a 124"! :hyst:


Good thinin comrad. It also solves the problem of choosing a cam for the 88"er.  :hyst:
KD

Offline Horizonmech

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2017, 03:24:13 PM »
 Go 95 it's the cheapest horsepower you will ever buy and the 37's will put you right in the "sweet spot". Use a good tuner .....Call Jamie @ Fuelmoto and a canned map they install will be all you need ..... :wink:

 Of course after a year you will want more .....and so it begins   :wink:
"See ya round....if ya don't turn oblong"

Offline kd

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2017, 03:28:48 PM »
Go 95 it's the cheapest horsepower you will ever buy and the 37's will put you right in the "sweet spot". Use a good tuner .....Call Jamie @ Fuelmoto and a canned map they install will be all you need ..... :wink:

 Of course after a year you will want more .....and so it begins   :wink:


Read the previous 2 posts for a short cut.  :wink:
KD

Offline boooby1744

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2017, 05:58:05 PM »
Go 95 it's the cheapest horsepower you will ever buy and the 37's will put you right in the "sweet spot". Use a good tuner .....Call Jamie @ Fuelmoto and a canned map they install will be all you need ..... :wink:

 Of course after a year you will want more .....and so it begins   :wink:
New camplate and hyd adjusters? RedShift 527 over the 37.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2017, 08:37:39 AM »
I have had some people tell me I would lose the low end torque with the 37 cam.  i am thinking are 2500 RPMs it will come on good. Looking into a set of S&S 97 inch big bore too.
Just do it while you can.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2017, 09:58:27 AM »
Going big bore, improving the heads a bit, you will most certainly not notice a loss of low end torque, especially compared to a stock 88".
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Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2017, 10:19:11 AM »
That is what I was thinking. The bigger bore would dish out more torque and upping the compression with head work.
Just do it while you can.

Offline Barrett

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2017, 10:19:41 AM »
37's with 1.725 rockers worked well for my 96".

Offline wolf_59

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2017, 10:30:36 AM »
I was less than impressed with them in my 06 Ultra when I went to 95 cr set to 9.6, SOP I lost power from 88 and stock cams lost fuel mileage basically I was disappointed in the whole build
Swapped the cams out with S&S 551 and have been happy with it ever since, great torque from idle to 4500 rpm but my riding is at 6000 elevation and most of it is spent at 2500-3000 rpm
Tried the 37 in my 04 Fatboy 95 at 10.5 cr and found it a lot more impressive

Offline PoorUB

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2017, 11:40:15 AM »
Like you found out, 9.6 compression ratio is not enough for the 37's. 10.3-10.5 is where you need to be. Andrews is conservative on thier compression recommendations.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2017, 12:37:00 PM »
poorUB that is good to know. The setup I am thinking is 9.7:1. So it should all work out for the good.

Just do it while you can.

Online sfmichael

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2018, 11:53:05 AM »
509 is a great cam but if I were going to have the heads done I would adjust the compression and go with the 48


this ^^^
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Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2018, 07:50:31 PM »
509 is a great cam but if I were going to have the heads done I would adjust the compression and go with the 48


this ^^^

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Online sfmichael

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2018, 10:48:00 PM »
Did a ton of the 37 builds years ago when everyone was going to the "Bigbore" 95 inch kits. I still feel it is one of the best overall grinds ever made for the twincam 4 inch stroke motor.  I used to set the CC's at 83 and use a 30 gasket and manual comp releases for hot starts.  Don't have to go crazy on the 06 up heads, just a cleanup using stock valves and a good valve job.  These builds routinely made high 90's to 100 hp and 105 to 110 torque depending on exhaust. My nephew had this setup in his 06 Road King and he pulled a heavy trailer from WI to Montana/Wyoming/ Idaho over Beartooth pass etc. two up. Never a problem with low end power (Supertrapp Supermeg pipe)
If you wait long enough someone will suggest a 98 and within another page you might be directed towards a 124 :teeth:

that's good stuff  :beer: :smilep:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2018, 05:15:07 AM »
Like you found out, 9.6 compression ratio is not enough for the 37's. 10.3-10.5 is where you need to be. Andrews is conservative on thier compression recommendations.


I do not think Andrews has changed the compression recommendation since the cam was testing on 1999 FL models with stock non-adjustable ignitions, carbs and "free flowing" mufflers left over from the Evo's. That stock FL head pipe with CV carb could be too lean on the rear cylinder and too rich on the front at the same time. Sometimes we forget just how far these bikes have come with both quality tuneable ignitions and EFI. One of the best all around cams ever made.
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Offline Scott P

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2018, 08:50:14 AM »
Plug and play, 88", an Andrews 21 will spank the same bike, with a 37.
And if boring to 95-98", a 26 will make more, sooner, than the 37.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline rking1550

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2018, 11:26:55 AM »
Got a buddy with a 02 roadking, stayed 88" used some 06 heads with a  fresh valve job. .030 hg. Andrews 48 cam, rineheart true duals. 95-96 tq and 86-87 hp.
  All  the power is in "fun zone"  for most riders,  2-5k rpms. Smooth,  quite.
120"@ 11.3 to 1, T-man 662-2, SE heads, woods CV 51 carb, S&S sidewinder exhaust

Online sfmichael

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2018, 12:57:27 PM »
Got a buddy with a 02 roadking, stayed 88" used some 06 heads with a  fresh valve job. .030 hg. Andrews 48 cam, rineheart true duals. 95-96 tq and 86-87 hp.
  All  the power is in "fun zone"  for most riders,  2-5k rpms. Smooth,  quite.

   :up:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2018, 11:28:03 AM »
The guy is going with the Andrews 37 cams and keeping the 88 inch. He bought a set of 103 heads and milling them .030 and a thinner steel head gasket. D&D fat cat pipe. Budget build.
Just do it while you can.

Offline GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2018, 12:29:39 PM »
I did a bunch of cam testing years ago now on the 88 incher bike was a 05 so beehive springs  here are the results. EX was a  KW 2-1-2 with V&H classic round mufflers . As you can see it was a test but in the end not much changed if the right cam was used .. Customer was a bit of a odd one and wanted all of the cams installed and tested .. He settled on the 509 .  Hard to say that one was far better than the next the 37/510 cam where the lowest of the bunch tested in that engine.

Andrews 48   82/90

Andrews 26   80/87

Andrews 26   82/88  + 4

Andrews 37   85/84

S&S  509      77/91

S&S  510      78/82

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Offline PoorUB

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2018, 12:35:37 PM »
I get a kick that many dis' the Andrews 26 and with your testing it is right in there, near the top of the pack.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Scott P

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2018, 12:38:01 PM »
Andrews 21.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2018, 08:29:42 PM »
I did a bunch of cam testing years ago now on the 88 incher bike was a 05 so beehive springs  here are the results. EX was a  KW 2-1-2 with V&H classic round mufflers . As you can see it was a test but in the end not much changed if the right cam was used .. Customer was a bit of a odd one and wanted all of the cams installed and tested .. He settled on the 509 .  Hard to say that one was far better than the next the 37/510 cam where the lowest of the bunch tested in that engine.

Andrews 48   82/90

Andrews 26   80/87

Andrews 26   82/88  + 4

Andrews 37   85/84

S&S  509      77/91

S&S  510      78/82

great info - thanks Steve  :up:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2018, 06:23:33 AM »
 :up:
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Offline Fisherking

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2018, 07:17:06 AM »
I did a bunch of cam testing years ago now on the 88 incher bike was a 05 so beehive springs  here are the results. EX was a  KW 2-1-2 with V&H classic round mufflers . As you can see it was a test but in the end not much changed if the right cam was used .. Customer was a bit of a odd one and wanted all of the cams installed and tested .. He settled on the 509 .  Hard to say that one was far better than the next the 37/510 cam where the lowest of the bunch tested in that engine.

Andrews 48   82/90

Andrews 26   80/87

Andrews 26   82/88  + 4

Andrews 37   85/84

S&S  509      77/91

S&S  510      78/82

 The tork on the 37 510 cam is the highest and that is what the ridder would feel, just depends were that tork would be, 3500 rpm or so I would think

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2018, 07:21:36 AM »
No the 510 was the lowest tq and the 37 the runner up for that ribbon.. Those cams really need more CI and compression than a stock 88 has to offer . But overall they are all very close . Curve wise the 37/510 where not bad the 510 in fact had a great curve just not big numbers
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: 88 inch cam choice
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2018, 07:38:55 AM »
As always, good info Steve.        :chop:


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