Author Topic: steering damper  (Read 867 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
steering damper
« on: January 05, 2018, 07:39:25 PM »
with 1 end of a steering damper mounted to the left side of frame should the other end be mounted to the right fork brace to work correctly thanks



Edit: added pic
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 05:45:08 PM by FSG »

Offline kd

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5477
  • Country: ca
Re: steering damper
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 09:03:20 PM »
The way I see it, the ability to dampen will be directly related to the angle the dampener rod is set on the radius of the turn of the forks (ie. 90* to the center of the travel) and the strength of the dampening is related to the distance the dampener is attached from the axis of the front end steering radius (ie. neck brg. spindle). More simply put, the physics of the Law of Levers.
KD

Offline Breeze

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2315
  • Country: us
  • middle Georgia '68 Shovel,'92 Dyna, '07 E.Glide
Re: steering damper
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 04:07:50 AM »
All that I have seen are pretty straight. Works like a shock absorber, fit like a shock absorber.
I'm starting to believe my body is gonna outlast my mind.

Offline 76shuvlinoff

  • Thread Locker
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15721
  • Country: us
  • 76 FLH -93" 12 FLHTCU, 103" Michigan
Re: steering damper
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 04:44:17 AM »
Got front end shake?
Being defenseless does not make you more safe.

Offline Burnout

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 876
  • Country: us
Re: steering damper
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 01:08:28 PM »
No steering damper needed if the steering geometry is right.

I thought that it was inspected and approved safe?

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 04:03:28 AM »
will investergate.maybe something with the rake

Offline hotrodshovel

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1920
  • Country: us
  • NYC/S.FL
Re: steering damper
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 05:42:32 AM »
Glad you started this thread. Since I put a new triple tree on my Shovel, its 2" stretch, 37* rake, with 21" front wheel. its a little floppy.  Kinda loose.  Checked everything is tight to specs. Never had this with FL triple tree & 16" wheel.  Was thinking of a dampener.   

David Lee, what dampener did you use?
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline dirtymike

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 737
  • Country: us
Re: steering damper
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 07:32:07 AM »
Good thread, going to watch this one. I have used them but never on a Harley. Rake and trail are your friends on a rigid trike. As Burnout stated "Geometry" is the key. If you have ever had a high speed wobble you can relate. When the downward force overcomes the upward resistance your screwed. Nice trike. Dirty

Offline JW113

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1322
  • Country: 00
  • San Jose, California
Re: steering damper
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 09:35:06 AM »
Hotrod John, is your set up similar to Wide Glide front end? I've only been on a couple, but I thought they do indeed feel a little "floppy" until you get moving, then quite stable. My iron chopper, with 21" and 6" over was also really floppy until rolling.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 02:33:49 PM »
you could say its a similar wide glide setup.the damper was on it when i bought it.maybe its the wrong one or mounted wrong.the front end is all tight eg bearing adjustment.thanks

Offline Hossamania

  • Road Glide Lover
  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14413
  • Country: us
  • 'Cuz ugly bikes need love too.
Re: steering damper
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 02:47:17 PM »
Disconnect the damper, jack up the front end, and check your bearings for wear, looseness, tightness, notching, etc. Then hook up the damper and check for binding or it being over tight.
Check to make sure your triple trees are square as well. Might have to loosen the pinch bolts and fender, bounce the front end a few times, and re tighten. Again, without the dampener connected.
Make sure your fork tubes are not bent.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline Hossamania

  • Road Glide Lover
  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14413
  • Country: us
  • 'Cuz ugly bikes need love too.
Re: steering damper
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 02:50:57 PM »
I see you have a fork brace too, that will need to be loosened as well to "square" the triple trees. When done with all this and it back on the ground, check your steering tightness with and without the dampener connected.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline JW113

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1322
  • Country: 00
  • San Jose, California
Re: steering damper
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 06:35:55 PM »
I always wrote off steering dampers as a band aid for bad chassis set up. They look cool and all, especially on those old Brit bikes, but see the first sentence. That said, I've never been on a trike in my life, so perhaps there is something about them that begs for a steering damper. After all, no leaning into a turn. More of a front wheel scrub, which might want to fight the handlebars?
 :nix:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline hbkeith

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2662
Re: steering damper
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 01:52:36 AM »
I always wrote off steering dampers as a band aid for bad chassis set up. They look cool and all, especially on those old Brit bikes, but see the first sentence. That said, I've never been on a trike in my life, so perhaps there is something about them that begs for a steering damper. After all, no leaning into a turn. More of a front wheel scrub, which might want to fight the handlebars?
 :nix:

-JW
      :up: some people think ya just sit there and ride it  :wink:

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 03:09:19 AM »
I always wrote off steering dampers as a band aid for bad chassis set up. They look cool and all, especially on those old Brit bikes, but see the first sentence. That said, I've never been on a trike in my life, so perhaps there is something about them that begs for a steering damper. After all, no leaning into a turn. More of a front wheel scrub, which might want to fight the handlebars?
 :nix:

-JW
      :up: some people think ya just sit there and ride it  :wink:
that does make sense

Offline hotrodshovel

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1920
  • Country: us
  • NYC/S.FL
Re: steering damper
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 07:01:03 AM »
JW113, sorry forgot to mention my forks are FLH with 6" over tubes. It pretty much leveled out the rake & stretch.  I put Progressive springs in a few years back and changed the oil of course when I did that.  Always very stable.
Truth be told I only took it out for a short local jaunt before I put it back on the lift.   So I'm not sure about highway speeds yet.   

Ive got a nasty crank shaft leak that I will be addressing here with photos.  I'm trying something new for me  as a fix before I have to split cases and look at bushings.  I'll do this in the coming weeks as well as some top end work.

You guys will get the whole story, photos and all.   Hopefully you are right but of course I'm concerned about tank slap and that dreaded death wobble.  I'd like to address it right away if it looks like its going there.
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 02:36:25 PM »
Disconnect the damper, jack up the front end, and check your bearings for wear, looseness, tightness, notching, etc. Then hook up the damper and check for binding or it being over tight.
Check to make sure your triple trees are square as well. Might have to loosen the pinch bolts and fender, bounce the front end a few times, and re tighten. Again, without the dampener connected.
Make sure your fork tubes are not bent.
i did notice it was set fully clockwise at the adjuster which to me is for highway use not city

Offline JW113

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1322
  • Country: 00
  • San Jose, California
Re: steering damper
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 08:31:29 AM »
Dave, what I think a few of us are suggesting is to investigate why the previous owner put a damper on it in the first place. It is for looks, or for function? Maybe ask the guy if it was having steering stability issues? I saw a brand new trike on the showroom floor last week, and no damper on it. So I'm not so sure trikes are inherently prone to head shake.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Burnout

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 876
  • Country: us
Re: steering damper
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 09:09:18 AM »
Head shake because the trail geometry is too big.

Just like a shopping cart if you push it too fast.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline hbkeith

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2662
Re: steering damper
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 09:56:52 AM »
Dave, what I think a few of us are suggesting is to investigate why the previous owner put a damper on it in the first place. It is for looks, or for function? Maybe ask the guy if it was having steering stability issues? I saw a brand new trike on the showroom floor last week, and no damper on it. So I'm not so sure trikes are inherently prone to head shake.

-JW
  My ol Servicar had a Springer , it had some good head shake on a rough road . get some head shake going and that ridged ass bouncing hitting pot holes in the country while getting it !!! , keep it twisted ! :baby:

Offline Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers

  • Premium Vendor
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
  • Country: us
  • www.RockerLockers.com
    • Rocker Lockers
Re: steering damper
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 10:24:03 AM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
Steve
www.Rockerlockers.com  Call for dealer discount

Offline friday

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 118
  • Country: nz
Re: steering damper
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 10:25:55 AM »
stock servicar steering angle is 23 degrees . there is pics on net of drummer buddy miles on his servicar chopper with long forks but it would be no where near hp of evo and probably never saw Hwy speed

 
model T era had 2 halved housing diff maybe theres a later ford parcel delivery vehicle of some sort with the same style diff ?
air port vehicle ?
air plane stair ladder vehicle ?



** it supposed to have ford diff .

https://selvedgeyard.com/2010/03/25/buddy-miles-the-band-of-gypsys-funky-badass-mother-drummer/

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=buddy+miles+star+spangled+chopper+image&qpvt=buddy+miles+star+spangled+chopper+image&FORM=IGRE

« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:25:25 PM by friday »

Offline Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers

  • Premium Vendor
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
  • Country: us
  • www.RockerLockers.com
    • Rocker Lockers
Re: steering damper
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2018, 10:31:05 AM »
with 1 end of a steering damper mounted to the left side of frame should the other end be mounted to the right fork brace to work correctly thanks



Edit: added pic
Does that bike have raked trees on it?
Steve
www.Rockerlockers.com  Call for dealer discount

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2018, 02:15:14 PM »
with 1 end of a steering damper mounted to the left side of frame should the other end be mounted to the right fork brace to work correctly thanks



Edit: added pic
Does that bike have raked trees on it?
i believe no

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2018, 02:18:41 PM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
makes perfect sense

Offline Hossamania

  • Road Glide Lover
  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14413
  • Country: us
  • 'Cuz ugly bikes need love too.
Re: steering damper
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2018, 07:31:52 PM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
makes perfect sense

My friend's 1947 Indian has an adjustment knob on the steering head, probably because those bikes were set up to be used with or without a sidecar.
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 10:26:04 PM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
makes perfect sense
sidecars pull the bike sideways

My friend's 1947 Indian has an adjustment knob on the steering head, probably because those bikes were set up to be used with or without a sidecar.

Offline JW113

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1322
  • Country: 00
  • San Jose, California
Re: steering damper
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2018, 09:19:15 AM »
Steering dampers were an option on the Indian, I've seen a few bikes with them. I agree, I think this is more of a sidecar option.

Not that I know first hand, but know a guy who builds and installs sidecars says if the rig is set up correct, it will not pull to the side. With a sidecar mounted, the bike is tilted outward (away from sidecar) to compensate so you have a neutral steering, no pull to either side. He is also a big advocate to mount car tires on all three wheels for a sidecar set up.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Julio

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 341
  • Country: us
  • Baked, not fried
Re: steering damper
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2018, 05:27:43 PM »
Steering dampers were an option on the Indian, I've seen a few bikes with them. I agree, I think this is more of a sidecar option.

Not that I know first hand, but know a guy who builds and installs sidecars says if the rig is set up correct, it will not pull to the side. With a sidecar mounted, the bike is tilted outward (away from sidecar) to compensate so you have a neutral steering, no pull to either side. He is also a big advocate to mount car tires on all three wheels for a sidecar set up.

-JW

Even a well adjusted rig with the proper lean out, toe-in, wheel lead and level frame will need a dampner. I can run 90 mph on mine with no drift or head shake, but cross a set of railroad tracks at 20 mph, and the front end would go crazy. A VW dampner calmed everything down and is pretty standard equipment on all rigs.
As far as going dark side, tugging a tub is pretty hard on the rear tire. I never got more than 4k miles out of mine. I spun up an adapter for a 15x4 car wheel and now get a ton of miles out of the rear.


Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2018, 03:51:28 PM »
got the trike back from my hd mech who said the front was bent,one fork had different internals and was bottoming out on bumps and the damper was too short and at the wrong angle.he couldnt believe it rode it after his atempted test ride thanks all

Offline 76shuvlinoff

  • Thread Locker
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15721
  • Country: us
  • 76 FLH -93" 12 FLHTCU, 103" Michigan
Re: steering damper
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2018, 02:54:16 AM »
 :up: :up:
Being defenseless does not make you more safe.

Offline Burnout

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 876
  • Country: us
Re: steering damper
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2018, 08:58:24 AM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/41-mm-Panhead-adjustable-rake-tripple-tree-with-tube-adjusters-chrome/253595911746

This is what I used on my three wheeler.

Any head shake will dramatically reduce the time between welding up cracks in the frame.

After installing the trees shown above the frame has not needed any crack repair in 15 years.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2018, 02:53:57 PM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/41-mm-Panhead-adjustable-rake-tripple-tree-with-tube-adjusters-chrome/253595911746

This is what I used on my three wheeler.

Any head shake will dramatically reduce the time between welding up cracks in the frame.

After installing the trees shown above the frame has not needed any crack repair in 15 years.
never seen that those parts before.my mechanic said it will steer straight now with the front alighned thank you burnout