Author Topic: Sorry an other 103 build question  (Read 590 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Flyingbroke

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
Sorry an other 103 build question
« on: January 07, 2018, 12:09:26 PM »
Need help with witch is better game plan.
1.send my cyl heads throttle body off get to 107 with stage 2  head work and ported tb.cycle rama 575,s&s lifter and tubes at 10.5comp $3,000 and should be soild 100/100 i think.

2.go s&s 110 with head work same cam and rockers but go 58tb and 5.3inj at 10.8comp and clutch work,$3,500 120/120 i think.

open to better ideas or thoughts on above.all two ridding but we are light,mountain 4th/5th and hwy 80mph peed limit so lots of 85mph.as much low hit torq and dont need higher than 5,500.
Than'sk for input.

Offline Matt C

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3288
  • Country: us
    • MCE Performance
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 12:33:17 PM »
I'd pick option 2. S&S110 cylinders are a good (and proven) upgrade. HP&TQ will depend on your pipe
selection and how that cam does (I've never used it)

The 110s I've done heads for, produced in the 129/129 range using tman 585/590s and D&D pipes.
Life is like a roll of TP. The closer you get to the end the faster it goes.

Offline Scott P

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7058
  • Country: us
  • Munnsville, N.Y., between Syracuse, & Utica.
    • www.hillsidecycle.com
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 12:40:43 PM »
I would not push that .575 to 10.5.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "steer clear of chameleons."

Online HighLiner

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 12:58:11 PM »
If you go with option 2, do you plan on addressing the crank?

Offline Herko

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1094
  • Country: us
  • Southern Indiana (Louisville KY Metro Area)
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 01:00:32 PM »
I would not push that .575 to 10.5.

Daren (Durwood) of Sheffer Performance, an experienced builder and tuner, has done at least two (that I know of) successful CR575 builds at 10.5 static.
Considering a power upgrade?
First and foremost, focus on your tuning plan.

Offline Matt C

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3288
  • Country: us
    • MCE Performance
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 01:02:51 PM »
If you go with option 2, do you plan on addressing the crank?

What's the impetus for 'addressing the crank' (only) with option 2? I'm not understanding what
you mean by that. thanks...
Life is like a roll of TP. The closer you get to the end the faster it goes.

Offline martinj

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 01:19:11 PM »
I would not push that .575 to 10.5.

Daren (Durwood) of Sheffer Performance, an experienced builder and tuner, has done at least two (that I know of) successful CR575 builds at 10.5 static.

I've seen dyno charts of those, and they look great. However, Daren suggested that I run my comp between 10.2 and 10.4 with the same exact combination the OP is talking about (110", stage 2 heads, 575 cams). It sounds like 10.5 is great if you're looking for every last lb/ft and hp out of the combo, the tune is razor sharp, gas isn't an issue etc., but it seems to me like it might be good to err a bit on the safe side otherwise. My final numbers are coming in at 10.27 and I think it'll be perfect. With that said, hopefully Daren will ring in here with his thoughts.

Offline Durwood

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 01:29:16 PM »
I would not push that .575 to 10.5.

Daren (Durwood) of Sheffer Performance, an experienced builder and tuner, has done at least two (that I know of) successful CR575 builds at 10.5 static.

I've seen dyno charts of those, and they look great. However, Daren suggested that I run my comp between 10.2 and 10.4 with the same exact combination the OP is talking about (110", stage 2 heads, 575 cams). It sounds like 10.5 is great if you're looking for every last lb/ft and hp out of the combo, the tune is razor sharp, gas isn't an issue etc., but it seems to me like it might be good to err a bit on the safe side otherwise. My final numbers are coming in at 10.27 and I think it'll be perfect. With that said, hopefully Daren will ring in here with his thoughts.
Herko is correct, I have done 3 builds at 10.5 with the CR-575's and I would recommend it if I or someone that I know well is doing the tuning.

Just Nick also did one at 10.5 with them as well. It's not an issue IF you have someone that's got a grip on it performing the tune.

Added: Martin you will be fine @ 10.3, and have plenty of grunt off idle.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 01:37:19 PM by Durwood »

Online PoorUB

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12471
  • Country: us
  • Tropical Fargo, ND
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 01:30:02 PM »
I would do the 110". I am not a big fan of the 107" built on stock cylinders. I had one.

Build a big dumb 110", keep the compression reasonable so it will burn crappy gas. 10.8 sounds like a bit much, keep it down to 10.25-10.5 tops. Shoot for 115 HP/115 torque.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Durwood

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 01:33:09 PM »
I would do the 110". I am not a big fan of the 107" built on stock cylinders. I had one.

Build a big dumb 110", keep the compression reasonable so it will burn crappy gas. 10.8 sounds like a bit much, keep it down to 10.25-10.5 tops. Shoot for 115 HP/115 torque.
:up: The 110 at 10.5 with the 575's will do 125-130 tq/115 hp with a good tune.

Offline Herko

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1094
  • Country: us
  • Southern Indiana (Louisville KY Metro Area)
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 01:34:49 PM »
open to better ideas or thoughts on above...
As Steven Covey says:  “Begin with the end in mind”   

If not already, the first thing to get lined out is the plan for a competent and comprehensive tune.
The tune is the final phase but can be the most important step in a build process.
As well as getting advice on this forum, talk with one or more successful and reputable tuning guys, one of which that will end up tuning your bike and ask him for advice on which way to go on a build.

Sometimes internet parrots (non first-hand experience) and folks that don’t understand tuning, inadvertently give advice on how to build a pig and the tuner guy is expected to perform miracles.

The old adage “Put lipstick on a pig and it’s still a pig” does happen. Any tuner with some experience has encountered this situation. Then, what has to be faced is the un-fornication of the build. Or, unhappily live with the pig.

There are great builders that are not tuners. But, these builders have a sufficient grasp on tuning and can give advice on where to go for a competent and comprehensive tune.

Devise your tuning plan first.
Considering a power upgrade?
First and foremost, focus on your tuning plan.

Offline Flyingbroke

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 01:56:59 PM »
Thanks Herko,this is what is holding me back from wiping card out now Idaho has no well liked dyno tuner guy most do hd build and tune  i have guy that did my last 110 that ran great but it was basic going to call him Monday see what he thinks.

Do guys think the 58 tb and 5.3 is needed ,stock tb or just ported and injectors would make this much easier to tune i would think.

Online PoorUB

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12471
  • Country: us
  • Tropical Fargo, ND
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 03:17:02 PM »
The stock TB will do fine in the RPM range you ride in. You may gain a few HP in the high RPM range with a larger TB. The larger TB will gain very little below 3500 RPM. Only you can make that call. Personally, I would run the stock TB and feel fine giving up a few ponies.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline 1FSTRK

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7066
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2018, 04:45:27 PM »
Thanks Herko,this is what is holding me back from wiping card out now Idaho has no well liked dyno tuner guy most do hd build and tune  i have guy that did my last 110 that ran great but it was basic going to call him Monday see what he thinks.

Do guys think the 58 tb and 5.3 is needed ,stock tb or just ported and injectors would make this much easier to tune i would think.

These questions are best answered by the guys that will actually be doing the heads and the tune. Most of the really good guys have worked together already and can give you collaborated advice so you purchase once and leave the tuner a totally happy customer.
Any internet answers will be too general when it comes to specifics on parts supplied by someone else.

Online Johnwesley

  • Member
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2018, 05:54:42 PM »
As Steven Covey says:  “Begin with the end in mind”   

If not already, the first thing to get lined out is the plan for a competent and comprehensive tune.
The tune is the final phase but can be the most important step in a build process.
As well as getting advice on this forum, talk with one or more successful and reputable tuning guys, one of which that will end up tuning your bike and ask him for advice on which way to go on a build.

Sometimes internet parrots (non first-hand experience) and folks that don’t understand tuning, inadvertently give advice on how to build a pig and the tuner guy is expected to perform miracles.

The old adage “Put lipstick on a pig and it’s still a pig” does happen. Any tuner with some experience has encountered this situation. Then, what has to be faced is the un-fornication of the build. Or, unhappily live with the pig.

There are great builders that are not tuners. But, these builders have a sufficient grasp on tuning and can give advice on where to go for a competent and comprehensive tune.

Devise your tuning plan first.


Good advise and something I haven’t thought about. That’s the hardest thing to do for sure. There isn’t a tuner with in 5hrs from here that I can find. How do you go about finding a good dyno center

Offline Ohio HD

  • Professional Cat Herder
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16967
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2018, 06:34:07 PM »
Good advise and something I haven’t thought about. That’s the hardest thing to do for sure. There isn’t a tuner with in 5hrs from here that I can find. How do you go about finding a good dyno center


Asking here is a good way to find one. Steve at GMR Performance is about 4-1/2 hours from you I think. Steve is REALLY good, and can help you get your bike the way you want it. He's also a site supporting vendor here.


http://gmrperformance.com/services/dyno-results/

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?board=76.0

For the best deal on bike parts, call Calif Phil
     www.harleypartscheap.com

Offline TorQuePimp

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2018, 06:36:03 PM »
Given 1 or 2 only

Don't do #1

There are much better options you aren't looking at

Offline rhuff

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 161
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2018, 06:57:15 PM »
Interested to hear your opinion on better options?  Debating opening my engine up or leaving it alone. 

Offline TorQuePimp

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2802
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2018, 10:12:29 PM »
http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=98869.0

This or stepping up to 10.8 ,small overbore ,valvesprings and a lunati shelf grind

Offline FLDavetrain

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 05:10:21 AM »
Not a “builder” or “tuner”  but had both 107 and 110 builds w the 575 tuned properly, one at 10.3 and other 10.1. Add carbon and those climb .2. These cams don’t like compression over 10.2. If pushing 10.5 or higher go w a diff cam set.  Hell Wes Brown likes these at 9.6 and that’s a quote from 2009. So for those that set em at 10.5 which becomes 10.7 in short order all I say is...... good luck.
currently 482ci in the garage

Offline Flyingbroke

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2018, 05:27:22 AM »
http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=98869.0

This or stepping up to 10.8 ,small overbore ,valvesprings and a lunati shelf grind
Not a “builder” or “tuner”  but had both 107 and 110 builds w the 575 tuned properly, one at 10.3 and other 10.1. Add carbon and those climb .2. These cams don’t like compression over 10.2. If pushing 10.5 or higher go w a diff cam set.  Hell Wes Brown likes these at 9.6 and that’s a quote from 2009. So for those that set em at 10.5 which becomes 10.7 in short order all I say is...... good luck.
Not a “builder” or “tuner”  but had both 107 and 110 builds w the 575 tuned properly, one at 10.3 and other 10.1. Add carbon and those climb .2. These cams don’t like compression over 10.2. If pushing 10.5 or higher go w a diff cam set.  Hell Wes Brown likes these at 9.6 and that’s a quote from 2009. So for those that set em at 10.5 which becomes 10.7 in short order all I say is...... good luck.



I am confused thought these where a new grind you say 2009 time for more calls,should have called him first come to think of it.

Offline Rsw

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 158
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2018, 05:32:51 AM »
Good advise and something I haven’t thought about. That’s the hardest thing to do for sure. There isn’t a tuner with in 5hrs from here that I can find. How do you go about finding a good dyno center


Asking here is a good way to find one. Steve at GMR Performance is about 4-1/2 hours from you I think. Steve is REALLY good, and can help you get your bike the way you want it. He's also a site supporting vendor here.
That is some great advise Steve is one of the best. He did mine and I couldn’t be happier

http://gmrperformance.com/services/dyno-results/

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?board=76.0

Offline Flyingbroke

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2018, 05:35:16 AM »
Found my problem I meant cr595 cam not 575 so now I just wasted all you folks time .Very sorry

Offline Durwood

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Country: us
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2018, 07:16:17 AM »
Found my problem I meant cr595 cam not 575 so now I just wasted all you folks time .Very sorry
Time not wasted, I think this is a good thread.

Wes will recommend a more conservative static ratio because he doesn't know in every case who is doing the tuning.

Regardless of negative posts on my recommendation, I do a lot of testing for Wes, and have real hands on experience with existing grinds.

BTW the sweet spot for the Cycle-Rama 595 is between 10.8-11:1  :teeth:

Offline 1FSTRK

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7066
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2018, 08:38:22 AM »
 :up: :up:
I think many times when people have a bad experience they feel it is characteristic of a combination or component when it is more often the result tuning or engine condition.

Offline sfmichael

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5068
  • Country: us
  • Hoping to build the next mighty 'mouse'
Re: Sorry an other 103 build question
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2018, 12:08:40 PM »
combo #2 gets my vote, but it will be hard to pull that off for just $500 more

CR575 is a proven performer and I have no doubt the CR595 will make excellent numbers as well
Colorado Springs, CO.