Author Topic: SE Compensator ?  (Read 84135 times)

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Offline HDDOC

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SE Compensator ?
« on: August 03, 2010, 06:42:05 AM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc
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Offline ViennaHog

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 11:55:35 AM »
The comp kit was revised sometime ago and should be OK now. It is stock on the 2011 FHLTs. Go figure

Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 01:52:29 PM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc
Never had a problem with the washer myself. The bigger issue is getting oil into the bore so it won't chew itself up. Then the washer might take a beating. If you swap out the washer for hardened steel, that's fine but you will also eliminate any possibility for any oil to go into the sprocket bore. I've actually added oil grooves to the face of the sprocket next to the extension shaft to try and get more oil in there. From what experimenting I've done the plastic washer will likely outlast the metal parts. If you use ATF the whole mess will have a quick death. So far Formla + has worked the best in as far as comp performance and atf or any other thin oils seem to accelerate the wear big time. Once the bore gets sloppy it starts to chew unevenly on the thrust washer and is the secondary wear point.
Ron

Offline HDDOC

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 04:24:39 AM »
Thanks had no idea the se comp had any updates. Will use Formula+ just for the safety side of things. Again Thanks Doc
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Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 07:22:33 PM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc
Never had a problem with the washer myself. The bigger issue is getting oil into the bore so it won't chew itself up. Then the washer might take a beating. If you swap out the washer for hardened steel, that's fine but you will also eliminate any possibility for any oil to go into the sprocket bore. I've actually added oil grooves to the face of the sprocket next to the extension shaft to try and get more oil in there. From what experimenting I've done the plastic washer will likely outlast the metal parts. If you use ATF the whole mess will have a quick death. So far Formla + has worked the best in as far as comp performance and atf or any other thin oils seem to accelerate the wear big time. Once the bore gets sloppy it starts to chew unevenly on the thrust washer and is the secondary wear point.
Ron
Just an update on the added oil grooves in the comp. After 9k there is no red residue on the sprocket from fretting in the bore, which is typical for these things.  The bore now had oil in it for the first time of it's life. Previous  SE comp disassembly was always bone dry.  Actually this is the second SE comp since the first one ate the bore up. This one should have a happy life.
Ron

Offline tqjunkie

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 12:25:27 AM »
Ron ,do you have a picture of the holes that were drilled .

Offline HDDOC

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2010, 04:20:56 AM »
I would like to see what you have done to yours also. I have 5,000 miles on the SE Compensater now with no problems so far and I am useing the Formula+ primary oil. If I need to back in there and see a problem I would like to fix it as you have.  Thanks Doc
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Offline road-dawgs1

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2010, 06:53:23 AM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc

Never had a problem with the washer myself. The bigger issue is getting oil into the bore so it won't chew itself up. Then the washer might take a beating. If you swap out the washer for hardened steel, that's fine but you will also eliminate any possibility for any oil to go into the sprocket bore. I've actually added oil grooves to the face of the sprocket next to the extension shaft to try and get more oil in there. From what experimenting I've done the plastic washer will likely outlast the metal parts. If you use ATF the whole mess will have a quick death. So far Formla + has worked the best in as far as comp performance and atf or any other thin oils seem to accelerate the wear big time. Once the bore gets sloppy it starts to chew unevenly on the thrust washer and is the secondary wear point.
Ron

Just an update on the added oil grooves in the comp. After 9k there is no red residue on the sprocket from fretting in the bore, which is typical for these things.  The bore now had oil in it for the first time of it's life. Previous  SE comp disassembly was always bone dry.  Actually this is the second SE comp since the first one ate the bore up. This one should have a happy life.
Ron

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Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2010, 01:34:25 PM »
I did have a pic last spring when I did it. Sent it to a fellow member and I think he lost it. It might be on one of the cameras still and if I can find it I'll post it. Nothing special about it. 3 radiused grooves inline with the c/l of the spokes. 3/16" wide x 1/8" deep, nominal. This is done on the face that sits against the extension. The sprial grooved composite washer is retained on the other end as it comes.
Ron

Offline Sc00ter

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2010, 03:18:01 PM »
I did have a pic last spring when I did it. Sent it to a fellow member and I think he lost it. It might be on one of the cameras still and if I can find it I'll post it. Nothing special about it. 3 radiused grooves inline with the c/l of the spokes. 3/16" wide x 1/8" deep, nominal. This is done on the face that sits against the extension. The sprial grooved composite washer is retained on the other end as it comes.
Ron

So you grooved the side of the compensator sprocket thrust face that faces the motor (side opposite the thrust washer)...  And the grooves were straight in line with the spokes...allowing lubrication to reach the bearing journal of the shaft extension....which lubricates the bearing journal o.d. where it rides within the compensator sprocket i.d. ...

Correct?

Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2010, 03:50:28 PM »
I did have a pic last spring when I did it. Sent it to a fellow member and I think he lost it. It might be on one of the cameras still and if I can find it I'll post it. Nothing special about it. 3 radiused grooves inline with the c/l of the spokes. 3/16" wide x 1/8" deep, nominal. This is done on the face that sits against the extension. The sprial grooved composite washer is retained on the other end as it comes.
Ron

So you grooved the side of the compensator sprocket thrust face that faces the motor (side opposite the thrust washer)...  And the grooves were straight in line with the spokes...allowing lubrication to reach the bearing journal of the shaft extension....which lubricates the bearing journal o.d. where it rides within the compensator sprocket i.d. ...

Correct?
That is correct.
Ron

Offline Sc00ter

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 03:55:58 PM »
I did have a pic last spring when I did it. Sent it to a fellow member and I think he lost it. It might be on one of the cameras still and if I can find it I'll post it. Nothing special about it. 3 radiused grooves inline with the c/l of the spokes. 3/16" wide x 1/8" deep, nominal. This is done on the face that sits against the extension. The sprial grooved composite washer is retained on the other end as it comes.
Ron

So you grooved the side of the compensator sprocket thrust face that faces the motor (side opposite the thrust washer)...  And the grooves were straight in line with the spokes...allowing lubrication to reach the bearing journal of the shaft extension....which lubricates the bearing journal o.d. where it rides within the compensator sprocket i.d. ...

Correct?
That is correct.
Ron

Did you mill the slots?  Dremel?  High speed cutting wheel?

Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2010, 04:33:49 PM »
ScOOter: I used a dremel with a stone and guide plates to keep it on track.
Ron

Offline les

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2010, 05:18:06 PM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc
Never had a problem with the washer myself. The bigger issue is getting oil into the bore so it won't chew itself up. Then the washer might take a beating. If you swap out the washer for hardened steel, that's fine but you will also eliminate any possibility for any oil to go into the sprocket bore. I've actually added oil grooves to the face of the sprocket next to the extension shaft to try and get more oil in there. From what experimenting I've done the plastic washer will likely outlast the metal parts. If you use ATF the whole mess will have a quick death. So far Formla + has worked the best in as far as comp performance and atf or any other thin oils seem to accelerate the wear big time. Once the bore gets sloppy it starts to chew unevenly on the thrust washer and is the secondary wear point.
Ron


So are you saying that ATF will tear up an SE compensator?

Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2010, 06:01:02 PM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc
Never had a problem with the washer myself. The bigger issue is getting oil into the bore so it won't chew itself up. Then the washer might take a beating. If you swap out the washer for hardened steel, that's fine but you will also eliminate any possibility for any oil to go into the sprocket bore. I've actually added oil grooves to the face of the sprocket next to the extension shaft to try and get more oil in there. From what experimenting I've done the plastic washer will likely outlast the metal parts. If you use ATF the whole mess will have a quick death. So far Formla + has worked the best in as far as comp performance and atf or any other thin oils seem to accelerate the wear big time. Once the bore gets sloppy it starts to chew unevenly on the thrust washer and is the secondary wear point.
Ron


So are you saying that ATF will tear up an SE compensator?
Now this is my view only, with some obserations on how the SE comp behaved when run with atf. I feel while there is adiquate lube  for the chain, bearings in the primary as well as cooling the clutch well it sadly lacks enough lube to protect the ramps of the cam and the spokes of the comp sprocket. The original SE comp I had in with the 96 had quite a few miles on it and was in decent shape when installed back into the 113 engine. Rivera Primo clutch recommends atf so that's what it got. Debri on the magnet increase dramatically compared to the ams 20/50 I use to run and there was a grinding crunching sound on each shut down. This could be replicated on the hoist and turning the engine in gear with the rear wheel, forward and backward within the ramps of the cam. Eventually after trying Belray gear saver which is piss thin also and the same results, I said fk it and put Formula plus in it. Debri dropped and the shutdown crunching sounds went away. By now the bore was getting chewed up so I got a new SE comp.  Ran the whole season with the new modified SE comp and Formula+. Performed flawlessly with no noise and minimal dust on the drain plug. Recent teardown to check for oiling showed the surfaces polished on the cam contact and sprocket rather than chewed up as with atf. The sprocket bore was clean and no hint of fretting dust anywhere. Like I say, this is my view but seeing the difference, it's like night and day to me. Some might have success with atf but for me it's been there done that and not going back there again. :teeth:
Ron

Offline rbabos

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2010, 06:03:25 PM »
I ordered the SE Compensator for my 09 SERG, I see that there has been some problem with the plastic thrush washer and was wondering if I would be better off replacing it with a metal spacer. I know it will make some noise and assume thats why it is on there. Anyone think this is a bad idea?   Thanks Doc
Never had a problem with the washer myself. The bigger issue is getting oil into the bore so it won't chew itself up. Then the washer might take a beating. If you swap out the washer for hardened steel, that's fine but you will also eliminate any possibility for any oil to go into the sprocket bore. I've actually added oil grooves to the face of the sprocket next to the extension shaft to try and get more oil in there. From what experimenting I've done the plastic washer will likely outlast the metal parts. If you use ATF the whole mess will have a quick death. So far Formla + has worked the best in as far as comp performance and atf or any other thin oils seem to accelerate the wear big time. Once the bore gets sloppy it starts to chew unevenly on the thrust washer and is the secondary wear point.
Ron


So are you saying that ATF will tear up an SE compensator?
Now this is my view only, with some obserations on how the SE comp behaved when run with atf. I feel while there is adiquate lube  for the chain, bearings in the primary as well as cooling the clutch well it sadly lacks enough lube to protect the ramps of the cam and the spokes of the comp sprocket. The original SE comp I had in with the 96 had quite a few miles on it and was in decent shape when installed back into the 113 engine. Rivera Primo clutch recommends atf so that's what it got. Debri on the magnet increase dramatically compared to the ams 20/50 I use to run and there was a grinding crunching sound on each shut down. This could be replicated on the hoist and turning the engine in gear with the rear wheel, forward and backward within the ramps of the cam. Eventually after trying Belray gear saver which is piss thin also and the same results, I said fk it and put Formula plus in it. Debri dropped and the shutdown crunching sounds went away. By now the bore was getting chewed up so I got a new SE comp.  Ran the whole season with the new modified SE comp and Formula+. Performed flawlessly with no noise and minimal dust on the drain plug. Recent teardown to check for oiling showed the surfaces polished on the cam contact and sprocket rather than chewed up as with atf. The sprocket bore was clean and no hint of fretting dust anywhere. Like I say, this is my view but seeing the difference, it's like night and day to me. Some might have success with atf but for me it's been there done that and not going back there again. :teeth:
Ron

Offline bennenrkc

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2010, 06:11:02 PM »
When is the SE Compensator Necessary?

If you read on HDFORUMS it should be changed to in every motor.

However when I hear it claimed to that extent it makes me wonder?

I had issues with startup, however I blame that on the High compression of the 255 cams in the 103 with out releases? Other than that I have had no issues that I can tell?  However I changed over to a 107" and was wondering if the increased torque and hp might require the change or might benefit from it.  I am waiting to see if I feel a clutch slip on my bike in the spring before I go into the primary (hopefully not), however should I plan on changing the compensator when I am in there (since I probably will have some slipping if I read Strokerjlk posts right?)?
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Offline d1hojo07

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2010, 06:23:57 PM »
I with rbabos on this. I've had 2 se comps do this with the atf.

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Offline Admiral Akbar

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2010, 08:53:13 PM »
Quote
When is the SE Compensator Necessary?

Good question..

Quote
If you read on HDFORUMS it should be changed to in every motor.

Bet they all use Redlline in the tranny also.. Max

Offline bennenrkc

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2010, 05:38:23 AM »
Quote
When is the SE Compensator Necessary?

Good question..


And do you have an answer?
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Offline ViennaHog

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2010, 06:27:30 AM »
Everything that protects the weak crank set up from shock loads is a good thing. The SE comp is a means to accomplish that. HD made it stock for 2011 on the big rigs for a reason .
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 06:44:28 AM by ViennaHog »

Offline Admiral Akbar

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2010, 07:26:27 AM »
Yeah, but what is that reason?  Maybe they have a bunch and it sounds like a perceived cool feature.After all I'm sure HD checks the message boards from time to time..  Probably does not cost any/much more to make than the stocker.. Also it helps to justify the cost of the higher priced bikes.

And do you have an answer?

Nope,,

Anyone killed a stock one? If the SE one provides stiffer damping is it going to help or hurt? Maybe if you like to power shift?

Max

Offline ViennaHog

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2010, 07:42:44 AM »
The SE comp has more travel than the stock one. Doesn't bottom out easily like the stocker which is down to its knees at a hot soak start. Logic would tell me that I have lesser shock loads on the crank

Offline earlehd

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2010, 07:54:46 AM »
Son in law's stock comp came apart, bike had 80,000 miles on it, 96 inch with cams, no head work.
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Offline Sc00ter

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Re: SE Compensator ?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2010, 08:11:02 AM »
Yeah, but what is that reason?  Maybe they have a bunch and it sounds like a perceived cool feature.After all I'm sure HD checks the message boards from time to time..  Probably does not cost any/much more to make than the stocker.. Also it helps to justify the cost of the higher priced bikes.

And do you have an answer?

Nope,,

Anyone killed a stock one? If the SE one provides stiffer damping is it going to help or hurt? Maybe if you like to power shift?

Max


How could it hurt?  All I see that it does is remove shock load from the drivetrain?  I don't see a possible downside - and definitely see an upside? 

Unless you know something about it's effect that I don't see??   :scratch: