Author Topic: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag  (Read 496177 times)

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Offline No Cents

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124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« on: July 07, 2013, 10:36:26 AM »
I've gathered all the parts...got the heads and bottom end out to shops for loving on.
So here is the plan:
Newest version 4 5/8" S&S flywheels put in a set of SE Pro crankcases, bored out to 4.125 bore, with a Timkens conversion, S&S piston jets, with Torrington cam bearings...being done by Kirby @ Vee-Twin Racing. The pistons will be S&S (Wiseco) -1.6 flat tops...with compression set @ 11.32:1 with them. I've been thinking about a set of domed CP pistons and running a little higher compression...but I'm going to try these flat tops first.
I'm going to try the 58* intake closing Cyclerama .650 lift gear drive cams first...hopefully they will perform as well as Wes Brown @ Cyclerama said they would. Wes said he designed these cams specifically for a 124" motor so they will produce early torque and let it carry that torque thru the whole rpm band, while building high horsepower along with it. He said he has not put them in a 124" motor yet with 11.00:1 compression, along with proper headwork...that has not make 150/150. Oh...by the way...wfolarry is doing another set of 110" heads for me again...this time with a little different twist!
I'll be also using the following parts:
SE camplate
Dan Thayer 3 stage oil pump
newest version Gaterman 1023 lifters
Smith Brothers custom made adjustable pushrods
SE forged rocker arm support...drilled out oil returns to .125
HD metal breather valves
S&S 1.625 roller rockers and shafts
S&S gears for the cams
S&S 66mm T/Hog with 6.2 HPI injectors that will pull air thru an Exotx extended Superfilter
Boarzilla headpipe with a 5" Supertrapp muffler with an open end cap and 20 disc's for a start...we will see how that does
All the internal bolts through out the motor are all ARP hardware
I'll have Strokerjlk (Jim Kennedy) tune it for me
That's the plan so far
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 11:12:10 AM »
I've gathered all the parts...got the heads and bottom end out to shops for loving on.
So here is the plan:
Newest version 4 5/8" S&S flywheels put in a set of SE Pro crankcases, bored out to 4.125 bore, with a Timkens conversion, S&S piston jets, with Torrington cam bearings...being done by Kirby @ Vee-Twin Racing. The pistons will be S&S (Wiseco) -1.6 flat tops...with compression set @ 11.32:1 with them. I've been thinking about a set of domed CP pistons and running a little higher compression...but I'm going to try these flat tops first.
I'm going to try the 58* intake closing Cyclerama .650 lift gear drive cams first...hopefully they will perform as well as Wes Brown @ Cyclerama said they would. Wes said he designed these cams specifically for a 124" motor so they will produce early torque and let it carry that torque thru the whole rpm band, while building high horsepower along with it. He said he has not put them in a 124" motor yet with 11.00:1 compression, along with proper headwork...that has not make 150/150. Oh...by the way...wfolarry is doing another set of 110" heads for me again...this time with a little different twist!
I'll be also using the following parts:
SE camplate
Dan Thayer 3 stage oil pump
newest version Gaterman 1023 lifters
Smith Brothers custom made adjustable pushrods
SE forged rocker arm support...drilled out oil returns to .125
HD metal breather valves
S&S 1.625 roller rockers and shafts
S&S gears for the cams
S&S 66mm T/Hog with 6.2 HPI injectors that will pull air thru an Exotx extended Superfilter
Boarzilla headpipe with a 5" Supertrapp muffler with an open end cap and 20 disc's for a start...we will see how that does
All the internal bolts through out the motor are all ARP hardware
I'll have Strokerjlk (Jim Kennedy) tune it for me
That's the plan so far

Sounds really good Ray. I may need to buy that 117 from you....  I have a knock going on.
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Offline sfmichael

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 11:20:39 AM »
 :pop:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Online Durwood

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 11:42:40 AM »
I've gathered all the parts...got the heads and bottom end out to shops for loving on.
So here is the plan:
Newest version 4 5/8" S&S flywheels put in a set of SE Pro crankcases, bored out to 4.125 bore, with a Timkens conversion, S&S piston jets, with Torrington cam bearings...being done by Kirby @ Vee-Twin Racing. The pistons will be S&S (Wiseco) -1.6 flat tops...with compression set @ 11.32:1 with them. I've been thinking about a set of domed CP pistons and running a little higher compression...but I'm going to try these flat tops first.
I'm going to try the 58* intake closing Cyclerama .650 lift gear drive cams first...hopefully they will perform as well as Wes Brown @ Cyclerama said they would. Wes said he designed these cams specifically for a 124" motor so they will produce early torque and let it carry that torque thru the whole rpm band, while building high horsepower along with it. He said he has not put them in a 124" motor yet with 11.00:1 compression, along with proper headwork...that has not make 150/150. Oh...by the way...wfolarry is doing another set of 110" heads for me again...this time with a little different twist!
I'll be also using the following parts:
SE camplate
Dan Thayer 3 stage oil pump
newest version Gaterman 1023 lifters
Smith Brothers custom made adjustable pushrods
SE forged rocker arm support...drilled out oil returns to .125
HD metal breather valves
S&S 1.625 roller rockers and shafts
S&S gears for the cams
S&S 66mm T/Hog with 6.2 HPI injectors that will pull air thru an Exotx extended Superfilter
Boarzilla headpipe with a 5" Supertrapp muffler with an open end cap and 20 disc's for a start...we will see how that does
All the internal bolts through out the motor are all ARP hardware
I'll have Strokerjlk (Jim Kennedy) tune it for me
That's the plan so far

Sounds really good Ray. I may need to buy that 117 from you....  I have a knock going on.
Man, I was hoping for that 117 myself, the Shark needs some more teeth :hyst:

Looks like a great plan Ray :up:

Offline Lever

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 12:34:09 PM »
wow that's going to be  a  monster   cant wait to see finished product...  Jim has to be excited to tune a  bike like that ...gotta sound wicked
cvo 110 darkHorse  lowerend  HillsideHeads woods cam Strokerjlk tune =Happiness

Offline Deye76

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 12:49:55 PM »
That's an impressive list Ray  :up: Gonna need a stout clutch......Bandit I assume?
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Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 01:22:41 PM »
John...I'm going to run my current clutch setup...I really like it a lot.
Primo Pro Clutch with the Primo TPP and their gold spring.
No complaints in that department.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline 02FYRFTR

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 01:45:46 PM »
New S&S flywheels, parent metal on the big end??  Should be interesting to see if they hold up, are you using the full width wrist pin end?

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 04:38:01 PM »
S&S said they haven't had a problem with this newer crank design. I'm having Kirby weld it...but S&S said it wasn't needed. My guy @ S&S said out of the box they will easily handle in excess of 200 hp.  :nix:
 I talked to John @ Darkhorse about the newest version S&S flywheels. He said it was a quality built piece that needed very little...if any attention...which said a lot to me. I asked John if I would do any better with him building me an inhouse set of wheels...after I told him the price of what I could get the S&S flywheels for (dealer cost)...he actually told me to get the S&S flywheels and run them...I would be totally satisfied with their product and the end results it produced.
Yes...it is a full size wrist pin.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline WI Bob

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 08:56:10 PM »
A list of those ARP hardware parts would be handy. Hint-Hint.  :wink:
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Offline Merc63

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2013, 09:35:44 PM »
Nice build.  I'm excited to see the outcome.

What tuner/ECM are you using?
2000 Dyna
126" S&S

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2013, 02:44:03 AM »
A list of those ARP hardware parts would be handy. Hint-Hint.  :wink:
I'll go out to the barn and get the sizes & amounts needed after I get home from work today and post them.
Merc63...I'll let Strokerjlk tune it with a TTS tuner
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2013, 03:03:35 AM »
Ray,  Take a look at the Vulcan billet rocker supports.  I just put a set in my 124" and they worked out very well.  Nice machined pieces.  I beleive they are cheaper than the Se's too
If you have to stop and think about if it is right or wrong, Assume it is wrong.

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2013, 03:41:54 AM »
Ray,  Take a look at the Vulcan billet rocker supports.  I just put a set in my 124" and they worked out very well.  Nice machined pieces.  I beleive they are cheaper than the Se's too
They are nice looking pieces. I tried to order a set of them in a .030 offset last year. They said they were currently out and would be making another batch of them in a few weeks. I never heard back from them and sent them numerous e-mails later on...never got a response back. I gave up on them.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2013, 04:40:08 AM »
That's odd.  I live no more than 10 miles from them.  Never and issue.
If you have to stop and think about if it is right or wrong, Assume it is wrong.

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2013, 09:13:24 AM »
after "eight" phone calls to them this morning...I finally got someone to answer the phone. Whoever he was...took the time to check, and he said they do have them in stock with a .030 offset. I might just have to order a set.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline TA63

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2013, 10:13:42 AM »
So you are replacing your 117, or is this for a different bike?

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2013, 01:35:39 PM »
as promised...here are the ARP bolts that I'm using internally inside the engine.

the camplate takes:
4-  1/4"-20 x 1" ARP flange bolts  $1.13 a piece
2- Dorman studs for the dowel holes part# 675-086  1/4"-20 to 1/4"-28 x 1-1/2" long stud (red loctited in)...found @ local hardware store
2- 12 point ARP nuts 1/4"-28 for the studs  $1.48 a piece

oil pump:
4- 1/4"-20 x 2" socket head bolts for the oil pump (not ARP...but black oxide) $0.12 a piece

rear cam gear:
1- 3/8"-24 x 1-3/4" ARP flange bolt...that I ran a die down it so it is fully threaded  $1.95
front cam gear:
1- 5/16"-18 x 3/4" ARP flange bolt  $1.17

lower rocker box's to the heads:
4- 5/16"-18 x 1-3/4" ARP flange bolts  $1.86 a piece
8- 5/16"-18 x 1-1/4" ARP flange bolts  $1.30 a piece

rocker arm supports:
4- 5/16"-18 x 2-1/2" ARP flange bolts for the cam side of the rocker arm supports  $2.04 a piece
4- 5/16"-18 x 2-1/2" black oxide socket head bolts for the primary side of the rocker arm supports...with a washer under each of these 4 bolts
bolts are  $0.21 a piece

breather valve bolts:
4- 1/4"-20 x 1-1/2" ARP flange bolts   $1.60 a piece

I found the best prices on ARP hardware from a website called:
allensfasteners.com
He sells ARP bolts and nuts by individual pieces...at an unbelievable price, with not the usual huge mark up found on ARP items. He also offers chrome & stainless steel hardware and grade 8 too. He stocks and ships most items the same day ordered.
Hope this helps!



« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 06:55:13 PM by No Cents »
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2013, 01:42:28 PM »
So you are replacing your 117, or is this for a different bike?
it sounds like Durwood is going to make me an offer for it that I can't refuse   :hyst:
he wants more teeth for the  :sswim: nose 
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline FLTR2008TRIKE

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2013, 02:41:20 PM »
S&S said they haven't had a problem with this newer crank design. I'm having Kirby weld it...but S&S said it wasn't needed. My guy @ S&S said out of the box they will easily handle in excess of 200 hp.  :nix:
 I talked to John @ Darkhorse about the newest version S&S flywheels. He said it was a quality built piece that needed very little...if any attention...which said a lot to me. I asked John if I would do any better with him building me an inhouse set of wheels...after I told him the price of what I could get the S&S flywheels for (dealer cost)...he actually told me to get the S&S flywheels and run them...I would be totally satisfied with their product and the end results it produced.
Yes...it is a full size wrist pin.

My S&S 4 5/8" wheels rolled less than .001 out of the box
124" Head work & custom cams by John

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2013, 02:59:43 PM »
Kirby hasn't told me any spec's yet...but I'm hoping to see the same on mine.
INDEPEDENT1 posted he recently had a set of S&S 4 5/8" flywheels that he checked the run out on...but he couldn't get a reading on them...basically perfect I guess.
 I can only hope :wink:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline FLTR2008TRIKE

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2013, 03:33:17 PM »
I chuckled when TMan was in his assembly room and he put my new S&S wheels on his V block  after dropping off my stuff for my 124" bottom end and his comment was " Damn!! A near perfect set of new wheels!! "  :teeth:
124" Head work & custom cams by John

Offline No Cents

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2013, 04:23:02 PM »
I chuckled when TMan was in his assembly room and he put my new S&S wheels on his V block  after dropping off my stuff for my 124" bottom end and his comment was " Damn!! A near perfect set of new wheels!! "  :teeth:
:up:
that will make a grown man smile!  :wink:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline FLTR2008TRIKE

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2013, 04:54:54 PM »
I was re-reading your first post and thought I would tell you that TMan pressure tested my S&S piston oilers before installing them and both opened @ 11lbs of pressure. Thought you might want to know
124" Head work & custom cams by John

Offline 1931jamesw

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Re: 124" build...I'll let the cat out of the bag
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2013, 06:55:02 PM »
True story about the wheels and run-out. I believe Feuling stocks complete ARP fastener kits also just FYI. I also recently check the wheels on a 120R that were just a RCH under .001.