Author Topic: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear  (Read 77446 times)

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Offline Winston Wolf

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Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« on: March 16, 2014, 07:24:20 PM »
I just pulled my twin cam apart for inspection.  in 2010 I installed the GP1023 lifters (private labeled through Cycle-Rama).  They have 30,000 miles on them. Amsoil 20W50. This is the worst of the four, and the only one with bad marking on the roller.  However, the bearings are not good on any of them.  When I apply pressure to the roller and turn it, they feel very "notchy". 

I don't know if this would be considered normal wear for the mileage or not?  But I will definitely be replacing the lifters.

What are others finding long term with these tappets?





Offline splitting_lanes

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 07:51:45 PM »
What cam were you running?

Offline Winston Wolf

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 07:57:49 PM »
This one is a Cycle-Rama 575.

Offline FSG

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 08:16:16 PM »
Quote
(private labeled through Cycle-Rama)

What exactly does that mean?

Pse post up a pic of the full lifter.


Offline Winston Wolf

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 08:24:14 PM »
Quote
(private labeled through Cycle-Rama)

What exactly does that mean?

Pse post up a pic of the full lifter.

It means they put a sticker on the black box that says Cycle-Rama. I'll get a full picture tomorrow, but they look exactly like every 1023 picture. 4 oil inlet holes, uni directional.

Offline BVHOG

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 06:19:40 AM »
I would like to see further pics of these lifters as well, what alerted you to the problem or were you just going through the motor for other reasons?  Have you contacted Gaterman or your supplier?
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Offline jrgreene1968

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 07:13:00 AM »
I'd also like to know what they say..wander if it's a problem, or maybe a bad batch?

Offline q1svt

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 07:25:52 AM »
If you know what hole each lifter was in along with the alignment pins (and their specific placement)... can you check/measure the clearance between this lifter and the pin?  Can the lifter be rotated...
tks
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Offline citabria

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 08:14:36 AM »
How do the cam lobes look?

Offline Y2KRKNG

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 08:19:11 AM »
How deep were the PRs?
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Offline Y2KRKNG

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 08:20:53 AM »
I only have 5k on mine but yesterday I could swear I heard a slight chirping from that side at light load cruizing.
ATP(TurboHarry)95,Mik45,Branch/Mik "Flowmetric" heads,TW55

Offline Winston Wolf

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 08:31:59 AM »
I would like to see further pics of these lifters as well, what alerted you to the problem or were you just going through the motor for other reasons?  Have you contacted Gaterman or your supplier?


2 pictures of the lifters below.  I can provide more detailed pictures if wanted. 

I took the heads off to add compression releases, there were no apparent issues.  I have not yet contacted anyone.







Offline TweekmyTwin

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 08:37:38 AM »
Yup.. Gaterman's
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 10:30:25 AM by TweekmyTwin »
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Offline Winston Wolf

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 08:52:00 AM »
How deep were the PRs?

They were 24 flats from zero, per the S&S instructions.

Offline Winston Wolf

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2014, 08:55:30 AM »
How do the cam lobes look?

From the top, it looks like there might be (is) a bad spot on the lobe with the pictured lifter.  I'll pull the cams out probably tonight for a closer look. And measure the pin/tappet clearance as requested. 

Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2014, 09:14:32 AM »
Those look like earlier Gatermans.  I only run my lifter for 15K miles and change them out.  Cheap insurance,  I've gone thru 2 sets of Gatermans using Dyno oil and have not seen wear like this.  Not that the oil has anything to do with it. (don't wanna start an oil war)
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Offline BUBBIE

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2014, 09:31:50 AM »
Mine are the Newer Design as the tops are shorter on the Opposite the Pin side...

Wonder "IF" there was another change in them at that time besides the top not equally in height ?????

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Offline rbabos

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 09:49:50 AM »
May I ask? What kind of life span do you guys expect from this heavily stressed part, or what would be a good safe swap out point especially once branching away from a stock engine?
Ron

Offline panic

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 09:59:48 AM »
Gee, I wonder if the engineers are throwing rocks at the accountants over the decision to use centered lifters (concentric with the base circle) to save $2.

Offline q1svt

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 10:04:46 AM »
How do the cam lobes look?

From the top, it looks like there might be (is) a bad spot on the lobe with the pictured lifter.  I'll pull the cams out probably tonight for a closer look. And measure the pin/tappet clearance as requested.
There are too many different lifter brands (even if you discount the private labels) for it to be truly a lifter problem... IMHO.  Believe the lifters are just a symptom of the root issues.  Too many things have to be correctly machined/tolerances*, whether HD or aftermarket parts for the lifter roller and cam face to align correctly, unlike an American V8 motor.

Winston Wolf, if you can look for anything that might show where the two are not aligned:
Is there any wear marks on the side of the roller to the inside of lifter (side loading of the lifter roller)
Cam/lifter wear to one side of the roller/cam face  (the cams and lifter bearing axle not in parallel plains)


(*)
Lifter bores to cam face
alignment pin to lifter, lifter to cam face
Cam plate to locating block pins
inter and outer cam bearings


A .001 difference in a 22" small block camshaft front to rear, verses a 5" Harley cam is a world of difference in how the lifter roller and cam face align...
Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge.

Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 10:07:05 AM »
May I ask? What kind of life span do you guys expect from this heavily stressed part, or what would be a good safe swap out point especially once branching away from a stock engine?
Ron

Ray,  I do mine at 15K. I suppose I could go longer but it works 4 Me.  Upon inspection after removal they look fine and that is the way I want to keep it.  If I pulled them and they looked worn then it's already too late.  Cheap enough swap at under $180
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Offline Deye76

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 10:26:18 AM »
I've got one Gaterman (front exhaust) that bleeds down overnight=cold rattle for 30 seconds. Just came in from re-adjusting, no difference. The SE pushrods have about 78,000 miles on them, so maybe an end on that one has a wear pattern unlike the others and is the culprit.  :nix: Do any of you replace the pushrods after a certain amount of miles?
East Tenn.
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Offline BUBBIE

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 10:33:46 AM »
I don't see Why any wear on the Adjustable Push-rod would make a problem on you lifter. AS you said You re-set/adjusted it and no difference... Must be the lifter IF not holding the oil inside. Are you setting at least .140 deep?

JMO

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Offline Deye76

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 10:55:27 AM »
Yes, .140 deep.
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Offline Durwood

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Re: Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 12:02:28 PM »
How do the cam lobes look?

From the top, it looks like there might be (is) a bad spot on the lobe with the pictured lifter.  I'll pull the cams out probably tonight for a closer look. And measure the pin/tappet clearance as requested.
There are too many different lifter brands (even if you discount the private labels) for it to be truly a lifter problem... IMHO.  Believe the lifters are just a symptom of the root issues.  Too many things have to be correctly machined/tolerances*, whether HD or aftermarket parts for the lifter roller and cam face to align correctly, unlike an American V8 motor.

Winston Wolf, if you can look for anything that might show where the two are not aligned:
Is there any wear marks on the side of the roller to the inside of lifter (side loading of the lifter roller)
Cam/lifter wear to one side of the roller/cam face  (the cams and lifter bearing axle not in parallel plains)


(*)
Lifter bores to cam face
alignment pin to lifter, lifter to cam face
Cam plate to locating block pins
inter and outer cam bearings


A .001 difference in a 22" small block camshaft front to rear, verses a 5" Harley cam is a world of difference in how the lifter roller and cam face align...
The C lifters are the only other ones I have seen that look like that, I have pulled sets of B's that looked like new at 30K. :nix:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 12:10:34 PM by Durwood »