Author Topic: Gears fell out after pulling cover  (Read 1922 times)

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Offline neilc

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Gears fell out after pulling cover
« on: August 10, 2016, 01:20:54 PM »
Man this bike is a wreck! I just pulled off the right side cover and the gears came out with a bunch of metal filings,need to know how too line hash marks back up,anyone got a pic

Offline Panzer

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2016, 02:16:16 PM »
Neilc, the guys here (me too) will want to know model, year, etc., etc..
Hang in, help is on the way after you give requested info..

70xclh...saw it in your other post.

Would be an XLCH
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 02:18:52 PM by Panzer »
You don't have to shovel sunshine ..... let's ride.

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 05:25:58 AM »
1970xlch 1000,

Offline Burnout

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2016, 06:00:32 AM »
Where did the metal come from?

Buggered or exploded lifter?

Cam shims? (moco TSB says you don't need them)

What year?
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline Racepres

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2016, 07:29:57 AM »
Where did the metal come from?

Buggered or exploded lifter?

Cam shims? (moco TSB says you don't need them)

What year?


I know that the TSB simply Omits the shims...but, What they are "telling" us is that they were being set-up way too tight...[seen plenty] I use shims...especially on #2...

Someone needs at minimum a FSM!
Simple as Pie really...If ya do a bit of Research.


Offline JW113

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2016, 07:45:20 AM »
I quit using the shims long ago. Never had a problem.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline garyajaz

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 08:37:55 AM »
did you first remove points and advance unit?
they bolted to a cam.
I would not be so quick to reinstall and align till metal source is found and corrected.
also get a factory manual.
the others are lacking.

Offline Pete_Vit

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 08:42:46 AM »
 :agree: make sure you flush that system good, my Stator blew (magnets) in my 93 and got metal thought the primary and tranny  :emsad:
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Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 03:37:18 AM »
Ya metal was from disintegrated shims behind gears,all cleaned out now,gears back in and timed except first gear has no timing mark on it just a hand painted dot that goes to starter motor,also left inside shims out this time should I leave both outer and inside shims out

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 03:50:14 AM »
Pic of gears back in

Offline westcomb

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 03:57:31 AM »
Just about any time you pull the cam cover off a ironhead the cams are going with the cover! .......... so this is pretty normal!

Those shims seem to always tare apart ..... using shims is not a bad idea but when there say .010" thick like most ironheads have there just going to fail! ..........

I will not use a thin shim on a cam! .......... your just asking for problems! ........ I often just run without them unless I can get a thick shim that will hold up! so check end play and see how far off you are! and go from there  :up:

You better pull the oil pump off and check that out ......... very likely there is metal in that pump! fixed now maybe saves a rebuild later?


Offline rider7816

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 05:48:50 AM »
Looking at your pics, I think your first cam (closest to the generator) is not timed correctly.  Those yellow marks are meaningless as far as timing is concerned.

Get yourself a manual first!  The timing is crucial. Since you have an earlier ironhead, dont forget to line up the breather on the oil pump drive gear too.



Offline Racepres

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 07:10:31 AM »
Agree with Rider
and I think most folks set up Ironheads wayyy too Tight...Hell it will work just fine without shims at all...better thasn using a Shim under 10 to 15 Thou. which I would Not Do.
Check the "dogbones" for galling...may need replacements. Those are a Necessity.

Offline garyajaz

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2016, 08:54:17 AM »
manual!
what your referring to as a starter motor is the generator.
that idler gear with the paint dosent need timed.
gen does not need to be timed.
your marks on cams are off.

Offline Burnout

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2016, 11:25:57 AM »
Not starter motor, generator. No timing needed for generator or idler gear.
Front cam gear not timed correct.
Ignore paint spots.
I only use the thickest shims and do not shim tight.
Clean out the bottom of the oil tank.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:31:05 AM by Burnout »
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2016, 04:25:32 PM »
Note 1st gear only has a paint mark to line up,hope it's correct,manual shows a tick mark,but all I can see is a paint mark and a grooved line

Offline JW113

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2016, 12:16:41 PM »
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline olpigiron

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2016, 01:56:50 PM »
Also..... I believe the engine should be at TDC. If not, someone will say
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Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2016, 03:34:00 PM »
What's the easiest way of finding tic on these bikes,other bikes I had had tech marks were points were or when cylinders were up

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2016, 03:35:00 PM »
Meant tdc this spell check bites

Offline olpigiron

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2016, 04:20:08 PM »
I lift the bike on the jack....pull the plugs, put the bike in gear, pull the timing plug on the left side. I use a wire
put in the front spark plug hole, rotate the rear wheel slowly until the wire is as far up as it goes, look in the timing hole
look for the marks If you don't see any do it again until you see them.  sorry I can't remember, one mark 2 marks.
As said before a manual (not a clymer) but a real HD manual is a must
Cheers....
The Sun Don't Shine On The Same Dogs Ass Everyday....
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Offline eglideic

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2016, 05:37:41 PM »
What's the easiest way of finding tic on these bikes,other bikes I had had tech marks were points were or when cylinders were up

 Forget TDC. You're good to go except for that first cam. The mark is right there as JW113 said. Put it where it belongs.

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2016, 06:25:19 PM »
Still can't find line up mark on that first gear,just the groove and that won't work because the cam lobe stops it from fitting, other than that I don't see a line like the other gears

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2016, 06:58:58 PM »
Will try rotating motor to see if I can line up that gear at a different position

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2016, 07:08:58 PM »
Just rotated motor,lifter won't allow the gear to go in still at that position due to its at its high spot on the gear lobe

Offline JW113

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2016, 10:02:11 AM »
Try taking the tappets out while putting the gears in the case.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2016, 02:53:18 PM »
All done,removed lifter from motor and gears are now timed,will now set up all lifters

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2016, 04:35:08 PM »
Removed entire lifter and now all gears in and timed,wish someone had mentioned the obvious a couple of days ago,now just have to read manual on timing lifters,then that side of bike is done and onto transmission issue,thanks though for the responses,hope to help someone out if they need it

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2016, 05:12:42 PM »
Done all gears in ,oil pump timed biggest issue was had to remove lifter out of first cam to get it in on the correct timing mark,after all the replays wish someone mention to remove lifter in the first place

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2016, 05:14:39 PM »
Can't seem to reply to my own post for good news update

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 05:51:33 PM »
All set by pulling the lifter out for that cam all cams in and timed,now just have to time lifters and fix trannie

Offline neilc

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 05:57:11 PM »
Sorry about repost one too many cold ones after gears in

Offline garyajaz

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2016, 08:16:31 AM »
how you gonna "time" lifters?

Offline Burnout

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2016, 02:04:47 PM »
(Attachment Link)

-JW
That is your timing mark for the front cam. IGNORE THE PAINT MARKS!!!

The paint marks are gear sizing for factory assembly.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline rider7816

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2016, 06:19:22 AM »
how you gonna "time" lifters?

You beat me to it!   :wtf: :rtfb: :nix: :scratch:

Offline Pete_Vit

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2016, 06:47:39 AM »
with a metronome silly  :smilep:
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Offline Panzer

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2016, 02:39:19 PM »
with a metronome silly  :smilep:

I used a tuning fork.   :SM:
You don't have to shovel sunshine ..... let's ride.

Offline JW113

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2016, 08:35:57 PM »
Neil...

Please pull the tappet blocks out, then put the cams in. That's how the rest of us do it. I hope. Tappet blocks and tappets go in after cams are in and outer timing cover is bolted on.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Burnout

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Re: Gears fell out after pulling cover
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2016, 11:28:31 AM »
And before the cylinders go on!
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"