Author Topic: lithium ion batteries.....  (Read 5289 times)

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Offline Mark222

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lithium ion batteries.....
« on: May 28, 2017, 07:41:12 PM »
Are they all that?  Need a new battery for turning the S&S 111.  OEM at 290 CCA is not doing it.  She does NOT fire off on the first spin.  If  you miss the choke / en richer  setting for conditions and she id down on power, too low to start.

3 yr old OEM is not up to the challenge and seeing the Scorpion Stinger states 525 CCA vs the OEM 290.

What's the real story?

(And yes, double grounded already, thanks)

Mark

Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2017, 08:14:37 PM »
My Anti-gravity ATX20 spools up my 120" 12.2:1 engine effortlessly ( used with compression releases ).  Kind of pricey.  They weigh less than 5 lbs so that is a nice benefit.  A down side is that they die if you let them lose their charge.  You also have to use a special charger.

They have a Memorial Day sale going on through tomorrow:
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com
Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline gryphon

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2017, 09:55:12 AM »
I installed one of their 16 cell batteries (don't remember the exact battery part number). It spins my 120" motor pretty effortlessly. In fact, as long as you remember to use the comp releases it starts as easy as any other motor I've ever owned ( and a LOT easier than some). I know they say that if you dip below a certain number of volts that it kills your battery. Not saying it won't but here's my story on that. About a week after installing the battery my grandson turned on my spots and nobody noticed until the battery as well below 11 volts (if I remember correctly it was down around 8.something). I figured it was toast (man was I pissed, those puppies aren't cheap) but I put it on their special charger anyway. Next morning it had a full charge and it has worked just fine ever since. It's been in there about 3 years now and when the time comes I'll probably buy another. I figure that if it lasts through this year I will have paid about $75 a year to have a reliably starting bike. These aren't for everyone but if you need one then they're a pretty good answer to your battery problem. I can not fit a full sized battery in my build and the little 270cca battery that does fit just isn't up to the task. This winter we had some pretty cold weather and after sitting off of the tender for about a month I was still showing 13.2 volts. I have read about issues involving some of the "imported" batteries but my anti-gravity has lived up to it's expectations.

Online Will-Run

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2017, 11:09:13 AM »
I got an AG. 16 cell for my 107. I was told by AG. that I should have the 20 cell for my engine, but I have had 0 issues.
 I could never, go back to another 15 lb heavier battery. :up:
Lean Angle, " Is Life."

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2017, 06:37:46 PM »
Several here,  myself included use Yuasa's premium battery the GYZ series which has taller plates and weighs more.  The bagger GYZ is 500cca.  The weight penalty is negligible given that most of these cruiser sleds are portly to start with and not being racing professionally etc.

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2017, 07:21:45 PM »
Third year on a AG 24 -720 ccp its AWESOME starter doesn't even know there is a engine there. It sparks up instantly.  You only get what you pay for.  Bob

Offline jmorton10

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2017, 03:47:36 AM »
. I know they say that if you dip below a certain number of volts that it kills your battery. Not saying it won't but here's my story on that. About a week after installing the battery my grandson turned on my spots and nobody noticed until the battery as well below 11 volts (if I remember correctly it was down around 8.something). I figured it was toast (man was I pissed, those puppies aren't cheap)

Same thing happened to mine, it was totally flat-assed dead.  I have the special charger, hooked it up & charged it & it's been fine ever since.

~John
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Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2017, 08:22:31 AM »
When I used to post about my lithium batteries and this technology here 3-5 years ago or more, there was all kinds of negative comments about this (at the time) "new" technology. Most were guys who NEVER actually tried lithium batteries on their Harleys, but sure had all kinds of crap to say about them.
Refreshing to see, as I expected, this would eventually turn positive when more guys would start using them, finding out they actually work, and that they work well-very well, as long as you follow instructions, and use the correct battery for your specific application.
Lithium has been coming, it's here, and it's not going away. I actually see the day when major motorcycle manufacturers actually have lithium batteries in their production bikes.

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2017, 09:06:08 AM »
When I used to post about my lithium batteries and this technology here 3-5 years ago or more, there was all kinds of negative comments about this (at the time) "new" technology. Most were guys who NEVER actually tried lithium batteries on their Harleys, but sure had all kinds of crap to say about them.
Refreshing to see, as I expected, this would eventually turn positive when more guys would start using them, finding out they actually work, and that they work well-very well, as long as you follow instructions, and use the correct battery for your specific application.
Lithium has been coming, it's here, and it's not going away. I actually see the day when major motorcycle manufacturers actually have lithium batteries in their production bikes.

 :agree:  I also have a AG booster pack 600cca for about 4 years now the look on peoples faces when I boost there diesel truck is priceless.  Both the booster pack and 24 cell battery I have work beyond my expectations and I consider it money well spent.   Bob

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2017, 11:16:27 AM »
When I used to post about my lithium batteries and this technology here 3-5 years ago or more, there was all kinds of negative comments about this (at the time) "new" technology. Most were guys who NEVER actually tried lithium batteries on their Harleys, but sure had all kinds of crap to say about them.
Refreshing to see, as I expected, this would eventually turn positive when more guys would start using them, finding out they actually work, and that they work well-very well, as long as you follow instructions, and use the correct battery for your specific application.
Lithium has been coming, it's here, and it's not going away. I actually see the day when major motorcycle manufacturers actually have lithium batteries in their production bikes.

Paul your posts seem to have a fair amount of emotion these days.  Since we went back and forth on the battery topic in the past I'll reiterate in short my point and my comment specifically to you about lithium batteries.

First off back when this first started I mentioned that the Ducati guys were having issues with low cranking power and short service life out of "Shorai" lithium batteries.  You mentioned Shorai as the brand you were planning to buy and apparently discounted any creditability in my reply about that brand.  Couple years later you were still cheering the virtues of lithium batteries but were using a different brand.  At that point I figured the Shorai lithiums didn't work out for you and after some pointed questions you admitted they didn't produce the claimed cranking power.

On a tech forum it's great to be a cheerleader for a product you use, like and think is the thing to have but the whole story including any downsides, special care etc. should to be shared.

My point "way back" was that lithium technology was improving and at that time I didn't think was quite there,  specifically Shorai was having issues that I verified through my local dealer and a Shorai rep.  The benefits for $ spent on a big heavy cruiser application like a Harley didn't really seem to be stellar or great bang for the buck especially if you didn't buy one of the more expensive better brands.

When lithium becomes common and service life is well documented I'll probably go there,  for now the tall plate, heavy AGM, Yuasa GYZ series is not too expensive and starts my heavy slow cruisers just fine.




Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2017, 04:56:46 PM »
When I used to post about my lithium batteries and this technology here 3-5 years ago or more, there was all kinds of negative comments about this (at the time) "new" technology. Most were guys who NEVER actually tried lithium batteries on their Harleys, but sure had all kinds of crap to say about them.
Refreshing to see, as I expected, this would eventually turn positive when more guys would start using them, finding out they actually work, and that they work well-very well, as long as you follow instructions, and use the correct battery for your specific application.
Lithium has been coming, it's here, and it's not going away. I actually see the day when major motorcycle manufacturers actually have lithium batteries in their production bikes.

Paul your posts seem to have a fair amount of emotion these days.  Since we went back and forth on the battery topic in the past I'll reiterate in short my point and my comment specifically to you about lithium batteries.

First off back when this first started I mentioned that the Ducati guys were having issues with low cranking power and short service life out of "Shorai" lithium batteries.  You mentioned Shorai as the brand you were planning to buy and apparently discounted any creditability in my reply about that brand.  Couple years later you were still cheering the virtues of lithium batteries but were using a different brand.  At that point I figured the Shorai lithiums didn't work out for you and after some pointed questions you admitted they didn't produce the claimed cranking power.

On a tech forum it's great to be a cheerleader for a product you use, like and think is the thing to have but the whole story including any downsides, special care etc. should to be shared.

My point "way back" was that lithium technology was improving and at that time I didn't think was quite there,  specifically Shorai was having issues that I verified through my local dealer and a Shorai rep.  The benefits for $ spent on a big heavy cruiser application like a Harley didn't really seem to be stellar or great bang for the buck especially if you didn't buy one of the more expensive better brands.

When lithium becomes common and service life is well documented I'll probably go there,  for now the tall plate, heavy AGM, Yuasa GYZ series is not too expensive and starts my heavy slow cruisers just fine.
Rick,
Emotional, really? Your post seems as if you are a bit sensitive, as if I was actually talking about you-which I wasn't. If I was talking about you, I would mention you, not dance around it.
This has nothing to do with you, as you don't run a lithium battery, do you?
You love your lead batteries right? Great. Do you see me bagging on lead? No. Had run them for 15 years. They do what they do and they have their place, as does the lithium technology. Is either technology perfect, no, of course not.
If you have a problem, PM me and I'll give you my number so we can discuss it.
Again my post had zero to do with you.

The fact is, when I posted about lithium years ago, it was mostly met with skepticism, and doubt. Fact, and I'll re-post the comments if need be.

Again, re-read these positive posts above of users who actually have run them for awhile, as well as the tens of thousands world wide.
I am simply commenting on how things have changed for the positive-and how they are gonna keep changing.....nothing more.

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2017, 05:47:09 PM »
I am a believer in LiPo batteries and have owned several of them (multi bikes) over several years.

Had an AntiGravity 600 CCA battery for years that would spin the high compression evo in my red bike like it was a model airplane engine. No issues. That battery has since been transferred from my red FXR to my TC bagger as I needed additional space under the seat for something and the little AG gave all the room needed.

The AG battery in my red FXR was replaced with another lithium battery from Twin Power rated at 400 CCA. It easily spins the little TC124" with 11.9 compression and a 9/66 ring and pinion gear. Again, no issues.

Both bikes have 3-phase charging systems and have never been plugged into a tender or needed to be jump started or anything else. Contrary to internet hype from those that have never done anything in their lives, my LiPo batteries have not required warming up.  Not even on cold mornings.

Are LiPo batteries for everyone, certainly not. Heck, this is the crowd that hims and haws over how cheap they can buy lifters for. The guys with a bagger with some off the rack pipes and cams, these batteries are not really of that guys. He should continue to get his batteries at the harley dealer or wherever. These batteries are perfect for the guys that have bikes with high CCP (>200 Lbs), or space limitations. They are also a good fit for bikes that are left unattended for long periods of time as they have almost no self discharge. But for the average rider with an average bike, they are not even in the same same league as these batteries.

In the case of my big-inch, high-compression engines in an FXR chassis that has very limited battery space, a LiPo was probably the only battery that would spin my beasts. The new harley/deka AGM that I tried would not spin the TC124" past the first compression stroke.

@PWMorris, some of these guys have never owned a LiPo battery but yet have all kinds of expert advice for those that have. Not sure why they feel the need to run their sucks and chime in on things they have no experience with. As if their opinion matters or something. Hopefully, the bulk of the members here can separate the signal from the noise.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2017, 05:50:43 PM »
I am a believer in LiPo batteries and have owned several of them (multi bikes) over several years.

Had an AntiGravity 600 CCA battery for years that would spin the high compression evo in my red bike like it was a model airplane engine. No issues. That battery has since been transferred from my red FXR to my TC bagger as I needed additional space under the seat for something and the little AG gave all the room needed.

The AG battery in my red FXR was replaced with another lithium battery from Twin Power rated at 400 CCA. It easily spins the little TC124" with 11.9 compression and a 9/66 ring and pinion gear. Again, no issues.

Both bikes have 3-phase charging systems and have never been plugged into a tender or needed to be jump started or anything else. Contrary to internet hype from those that have never done anything in their lives, my LiPo batteries have not required warming up.  Not even on cold mornings.

Are LiPo batteries for everyone, certainly not. Heck, this is the crowd that hims and haws over how cheap they can buy lifters for. The guys with a bagger with some off the rack pipes and cams, these batteries are not really of that guys. He should continue to get his batteries at the harley dealer or wherever. These batteries are perfect for the guys that have bikes with high CCP (>200 Lbs), or space limitations. They are also a good fit for bikes that are left unattended for long periods of time as they have almost no self discharge. But for the average rider with an average bike, they are not even in the same same league as these batteries.

In the case of my big-inch, high-compression engines in an FXR chassis that has very limited battery space, a LiPo was probably the only battery that would spin my beasts. The new harley/deka AGM that I tried would not spin the TC124" past the first compression stroke.

@PWMorris, some of these guys have never owned a LiPo battery but yet have all kinds of expert advice for those that have. Not sure why they feel the need to run their sucks and chime in on things they have no experience with. As if their opinion matters or something. Hopefully, the bulk of the members here can separate the signal from the noise.
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Offline m1marty

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2017, 06:00:48 PM »
Twin Power Li-ion in the DXT. North of 12:1. 1.4kw starter and 2g cables. Spins like the plugs are out. Been putting those in a few bikes here....everyone is happy/impressed.
OFFO

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2017, 06:06:32 PM »
When I used to post about my lithium batteries and this technology here 3-5 years ago or more, there was all kinds of negative comments about this (at the time) "new" technology. Most were guys who NEVER actually tried lithium batteries on their Harleys, but sure had all kinds of crap to say about them.
Refreshing to see, as I expected, this would eventually turn positive when more guys would start using them, finding out they actually work, and that they work well-very well, as long as you follow instructions, and use the correct battery for your specific application.
Lithium has been coming, it's here, and it's not going away. I actually see the day when major motorcycle manufacturers actually have lithium batteries in their production bikes.

Paul your posts seem to have a fair amount of emotion these days.  Since we went back and forth on the battery topic in the past I'll reiterate in short my point and my comment specifically to you about lithium batteries.

First off back when this first started I mentioned that the Ducati guys were having issues with low cranking power and short service life out of "Shorai" lithium batteries.  You mentioned Shorai as the brand you were planning to buy and apparently discounted any creditability in my reply about that brand.  Couple years later you were still cheering the virtues of lithium batteries but were using a different brand.  At that point I figured the Shorai lithiums didn't work out for you and after some pointed questions you admitted they didn't produce the claimed cranking power.

On a tech forum it's great to be a cheerleader for a product you use, like and think is the thing to have but the whole story including any downsides, special care etc. should to be shared.

My point "way back" was that lithium technology was improving and at that time I didn't think was quite there,  specifically Shorai was having issues that I verified through my local dealer and a Shorai rep.  The benefits for $ spent on a big heavy cruiser application like a Harley didn't really seem to be stellar or great bang for the buck especially if you didn't buy one of the more expensive better brands.

When lithium becomes common and service life is well documented I'll probably go there,  for now the tall plate, heavy AGM, Yuasa GYZ series is not too expensive and starts my heavy slow cruisers just fine.
Rick,
Emotional, really? Your post seems as if you are a bit sensitive, as if I was actually talking about you-which I wasn't. If I was talking about you, I would mention you, not dance around it.
This has nothing to do with you, as you don't run a lithium battery, do you?
You love your lead batteries right? Great. Do you see me bagging on lead? No. Had run them for 15 years. They do what they do and they have their place, as does the lithium technology. Is either technology perfect, no, of course not.
If you have a problem, PM me and I'll give you my number so we can discuss it.
Again my post had zero to do with you.

The fact is, when I posted about lithium years ago, it was mostly met with skepticism, and doubt. Fact, and I'll re-post the comments if need be.

Again, re-read these positive posts above of users who actually have run them for awhile, as well as the tens of thousands world wide.
I am simply commenting on how things have changed for the positive-and how they are gonna keep changing.....nothing more.

Paul, this so applies here;

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”   ― Theodore Roosevelt

And this;

"Who Dares Wins"  -British SAS
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 06:14:53 PM by turboprop »
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2017, 08:04:23 PM »
Paul and ED,  I don't have a thing for either of you guys and don't want to offend or make things worse but notice you both can be quick to talk down to others.  Not sure why the edge but through unsolicited comments from other members I realize others see the same.

I brought this back up because Paul used/tried Shorai batteries and ended up replacing them with another brand but never shared that on this forum until asked.  When your touting the virtues of lithium or any technology it would be nice if you shared all your experiences both good and bad with given brands/products.

I considered a Shorai battery for my 916 a few years back but several Ducati guys were having cranking and service life issues.  My local multi-brand dealer that I've dealt with since 1985 was selling Shorai and will order anything I want but told me don't put a Shorai in a single or twin as they lack cranking power.  The Shorai rep standing near Paul's bike at the Long Beach show said the same.  So I didn't need personal experience at that time to know that spending $ on a Shorai wasn't going to get me any different result.  More recently the Anti-gravity reps also said that given the weak charging system in a 916 lithium is not a good fit.

I'm aware battery tech is improving and hopefully Shorai has improved their product.  My point was that bang for buck the average Harley rider and application probably won't see much benefit to Lithium over a premium AGM.




Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2017, 09:17:51 PM »
Paul and ED,  I don't have a thing for either of you guys and don't want to offend or make things worse but notice you both can be quick to talk down to others.  Not sure why the edge but through unsolicited comments from other members I realize others see the same.

I brought this back up because Paul used/tried Shorai batteries and ended up replacing them with another brand but never shared that on this forum until asked.  When your touting the virtues of lithium or any technology it would be nice if you shared all your experiences both good and bad with given brands/products.

I considered a Shorai battery for my 916 a few years back but several Ducati guys were having cranking and service life issues.  My local multi-brand dealer that I've dealt with since 1985 was selling Shorai and will order anything I want but told me don't put a Shorai in a single or twin as they lack cranking power.  The Shorai rep standing near Paul's bike at the Long Beach show said the same.  So I didn't need personal experience at that time to know that spending $ on a Shorai wasn't going to get me any different result.  More recently the Anti-gravity reps also said that given the weak charging system in a 916 lithium is not a good fit.

I'm aware battery tech is improving and hopefully Shorai has improved their product.  My point was that bang for buck the average Harley rider and application probably won't see much benefit to Lithium over a premium AGM.
Rick,
You started this shit when you got personal-not me.
Too many guys here who talk about batteries, racing (never actually raced their Harley, but they did race their car back in the 70's...geez), pipes, big HP, carbs, clutches, and on and on, that have never even tested or specifically ran them...but can't wait to chime in what they heard on the "net" or claim to be an "expert" on any and all subjects. BS. Stay in your lane....but people just can't help themselves.
 I have mentioned a few times IMO you know your stuff when it comes to suspension and chassis set ups-you know your stuff, and that is real. You ever see me post in FI section, bagger stuff or anywhere out of my experience? Hell no, I know nothing about it, but hey, maybe I could parrot what I heard on the Internet....


Don't know why you have a hard on against them, but look above, it don't matter, as people are finding they are working well for their Harleys.
I have tried and tested these batteries from many years ago.....since the cells were shrink wrapped and the posts were spin tight by hand. I spent my hard earned money trying all kinds of lithiums in the early days-I Stuck my neck out testing, getting bagged on by guys like you, and trying to explain what and how it was working out.
That was why I posted today....it's great to see positive experiences finally from these batteries, no matter how many of you sit on the sidelines trying any angle to find a flaw in them.
916-really? This ain't a Duck site, and maybe you should be over ther ripping guys running Lithium on the Duck sites-even though I have seen all kinds of Duck riders using Lithium having great experiences with it. They wouldn't run anything else. Period.
The is HTT- HARLEY tech talk, and again, if you would actually bother to read the above posts, Harley guys are starting to take advantage of this technology-and have Great results....

Ever seen a lead battery fire, failure, leak, or other faults? Of course, and so do lithiums have issues, as I have said over and over......

 Re-read my Shorai experiences...as I said, rode my buddies VRod with a Shorai and it worked great, and still does years later. I never had a dead battery, battery Fire, or any other issue. My only concern was that brand didn't crank as many CCA's as they claimed.
They first replaced the battery, no questions asked, then refunded me when it didn't work out. Their customer service was outstanding. Re-read what I posted on that subject.

You seem very emotional discussing lithium batteries, and taking this post personal. Hope everything is alright.....Unfortunately this post isn't about you. It's about guys who have actually TRIED lithium batteries in their bikes....good or bad.
If you would actually read the above posts from guys I don't even know, it's clear to me, lithium is looking real good going into the future.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2017, 10:20:48 PM »
Paul,  I guess my posts weren't clear enough for the intended meaning to be understandable.  Most of my comments were time and product brand specific.  Don't think there would be much issue or arguable points if the intent was understood.

What people use for batteries isn't a big deal to me...really not worth the time it takes to type this.

The only thing that has irritated me battery wise is the fact that HD/Deka batteries don't have the service life they once had.  Last 3 HD branded Deka batteries lasted approx. 2 years each.  Before someone jumps in and ask why did you keep buying them I'll restate that the last 2 happened to fail the day or 2 days before a trip and I bought what was quick/convenient.  I'll never buy another Deka.

I've noticed less solid tech knowledge sharing on this forum lately,  seems some people no longer care to take the time or have moved on...I can relate.  -Rick

My circle of friends consist of several knowledgeable tech/racing individuals both motorcycle and automotive related with connections to competent industry specialist .  What I've noticed about most truly innovative leaders in their perspective fields is that their impressive level of knowledge is often matched by a similarly deep level of humility.   
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 10:30:02 PM by 04 SE DEUCE »

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2017, 12:47:04 PM »
Wow, wanted a little info and just got a doctorate degree.  Thanks to all.

At this rate battery threads will become the new oil thread, let's hope not....

I just need more CCA under the seat than a Deka / HD OEM lead plate will provide.

While the V111 S&S is not a monster by today's standard, it is more than can be spun with conventional 300 CCA batteries with longevity and consistency.  And I am way to old to be push starting a bagger when the beast doesn't fire on the first or second revolution.  When the HD falls off, the ignition will no longer fire, and there is where I will be left sitting.  Last two OEM batteries lasted just over one season with this new power plant and I was seeking a solution for longevity and reliability.  So I just paid $227 delivered for a 500+ CCA Li-ion and will let you all know how it works for me.  (brand specific).  Money well spent if it solves my issues.

Mark

Online No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2017, 02:42:45 PM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

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« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 02:47:24 PM by No Cents »
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Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2017, 02:44:12 PM »
Wow, wanted a little info and just got a doctorate degree.  Thanks to all.

At this rate battery threads will become the new oil thread, let's hope not....

I just need more CCA under the seat than a Deka / HD OEM lead plate will provide.

While the V111 S&S is not a monster by today's standard, it is more than can be spun with conventional 300 CCA batteries with longevity and consistency.  And I am way to old to be push starting a bagger when the beast doesn't fire on the first or second revolution.  When the HD falls off, the ignition will no longer fire, and there is where I will be left sitting.  Last two OEM batteries lasted just over one season with this new power plant and I was seeking a solution for longevity and reliability.  So I just paid $227 delivered for a 500+ CCA Li-ion and will let you all know how it works for me.  (brand specific).  Money well spent if it solves my issues.

Mark
:up:
Best of luck with your new battery and hope it works well for you. Keep it charged properly, don't leave your lights on, and I'm sure you will have a long time of consistent, reliable starts.
Yeah, this post turned directions on you. I started running lithium when the batteries were shink wrapped around the cells and the posts had spin by hand lock downs on them...lol...Great to see lithium technology grow and see more and more Harley guys using them and having positive experiences running them.

Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2017, 02:45:56 PM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

(Attachment Link)
Nice-
Never ran Twin Power, but have heard good positive things about them.
Look forward to seeing how it works out for you Ray-

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2017, 02:56:00 PM »
  I have to admit that this is the most I have ever paid for a battery...but if it does what they claim...it should be well worth the money.
I followed the lithium battery threads over the years and I've seen the technology grow. I think these Lithium batteries will be the wave of the future and I hope to see the prices eventually come down some.
  Paul...I won't see the battery until next week some time...but I'll let you know how it does as soon as it shows up.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2017, 03:54:20 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.
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Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2017, 05:06:50 PM »
  I have to admit that this is the most I have ever paid for a battery...but if it does what they claim...it should be well worth the money.
I followed the lithium battery threads over the years and I've seen the technology grow. I think these Lithium batteries will be the wave of the future and I hope to see the prices eventually come down some.
  Paul...I won't see the battery until next week some time...but I'll let you know how it does as soon as it shows up.
Sounds good Ray.
As far as price, just be glad you didn't have to pay Braille prices!
https://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/braille/product_batteries/ml20c

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2017, 05:42:16 PM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I have this battery in my red FXR, it easily spins the little TC124 with 11.9 compression. The customer service at Twin Power for these batteries is headed by none other than James Simonelli. I won't get into the details, but will say that James is on top of things.
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Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2017, 05:46:30 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.

They do require a special charger/maintainer. I have a C-Tek but there are others. The dongle is different to prevent them being plugged into non LiPo batteries. I let my Anti-Gravity battery run right down to nothing, didn't catch it for several months. The little C-Tek charger brought it back within a few hours. A year latter it will still start a neighbors tractor.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline hattitude

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2017, 05:59:30 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.

They do require a special charger/maintainer. I have a C-Tek but there are others. The dongle is different to prevent them being plugged into non LiPo batteries. I let my Anti-Gravity battery run right down to nothing, didn't catch it for several months. The little C-Tek charger brought it back within a few hours. A year latter it will still start a neighbors tractor.

I've always been interested in the LiPo technology.... but I've asked this question before and don't remember getting an answer...

Just like a different charge profile is needed for a gel cell battery v wet cell/AGM battery... apparently a LiPo battery needs a different charger.... what is the specific charging profile needed for a LiPo battery, and/or how does it differ from the others...?

If the LiPo technology needs a different charger... what effect does a Harley electrical system, set up for an AGM/Wet cell batteries, have on a LiPo battery... for example driving for 4 to 6 hours a day on a multi-day trip...?

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2017, 06:38:20 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.

They do require a special charger/maintainer. I have a C-Tek but there are others. The dongle is different to prevent them being plugged into non LiPo batteries. I let my Anti-Gravity battery run right down to nothing, didn't catch it for several months. The little C-Tek charger brought it back within a few hours. A year latter it will still start a neighbors tractor.

I've always been interested in the LiPo technology.... but I've asked this question before and don't remember getting an answer...

Just like a different charge profile is needed for a gel cell battery v wet cell/AGM battery... apparently a LiPo battery needs a different charger.... what is the specific charging profile needed for a LiPo battery, and/or how does it differ from the others...?

If the LiPo technology needs a different charger... what effect does a Harley electrical system, set up for an AGM/Wet cell batteries, have on a LiPo battery... for example driving for 4 to 6 hours a day on a multi-day trip...?
 
   They charge just fine on the bike. They need a different charger because a regular battery charger has a pulse added in ( for lack of a better word) that has ill effects on the LiPo plates. Something to do with the way they clean the plates in a acid filled battery has part of the chargers function. I bought a charger with the battery from anti gravity very happy with it. Was big bucks in Canada but it was worth it.  Bob

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2017, 06:44:41 PM »
I bought the cheaper charger that Anti-Gravity sold with the first battery.  The second one I purchased the more expensive one they sold.  It runs a program that constantly charges and tests the battery and rests as necessary.  It is pretty slick.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/optimate-tm-291/
Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2017, 06:59:43 PM »
I bought the cheaper charger that Anti-Gravity sold with the first battery.  The second one I purchased the more expensive one they sold.  It runs a program that constantly charges and tests the battery and rests as necessary.  It is pretty slick.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/optimate-tm-291/

Yup that's the same one I bought. Its slick.  Bob

Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2017, 07:15:33 PM »
I have had one for about 6 yrs.  Only bad is it don't like cold.  I have an Antigravity booster pack that I use in a.m.  Afternoons are fine..  Under 45-50* forget it.
If you have to stop and think about if it is right or wrong, Assume it is wrong.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2017, 08:32:05 PM »
I have had one for about 6 yrs.  Only bad is it don't like cold.  I have an Antigravity booster pack that I use in a.m.  Afternoons are fine..  Under 45-50* forget it.

I haven't used it in cold weather.  I've read that the snowmobile guys turn on their headlights before they try to start up and this brings up the charge.  I wonder if this would work with your booster pack?
Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline m1marty

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2017, 12:48:18 AM »
This past winter/spring when the 124 (again, north of 12:1) was first fired, I took James advice (from Twin Power) and turned the ignition on for about 30 seconds. As a lithium battery gets put under load, it actually ramps up out put rather than drops off like a lead acid. Temps were 41° outside that day. Fired immediately and no issue. I have one in my little 95ci dxi as well that is ridden every chance I get. Hot, cold, in between- it fires very fast. Have also put them in 3 other of my Brothers bikes. Everyone likes them so far.
OFFO

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2017, 04:48:27 AM »
I bought the scorpion stinger and it states on their web site a recommended charger, but it the detailed description it states it is now smart enough to use any charger?  Below is from their website:

Scorpion Stinger lithium powersports batteries bring innovation to a new level. All Scorpion Stinger batteries use only the finest prismatic lithium cells, meaning that you get stronger starts, and more cycles than our competitors. Each battery contains its own Battery Management System built right into the battery. This ensures that the internal cells stay balanced with no special charger necessary.

Yet they also recommend a LI-Ion charger??? Copied below:

This is the battery charger we recommend for this battery: OptiMATE Lithium TM-471.

And this charger looks like:

OptiMATE Lithium 4s 12v 0.8 Amp 8-Step Smart Charger
TM-471
   
Was: $64.90
Sale Price:   $58.41 - No Tax
Free Priority Mail Shipping to USA.

So now I am a bit confused and think I will call them today to discuss.

I have a CE 3 phase charging system on the bagger, and that does not seem to be an issue.

Any insight to this topic gentlemen?  Better to buy their and call it good, or will the standard HD tender / charger for lead acid work as they have stated???

Mark

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2017, 06:57:33 AM »
  A charger for one of these lithium batteries is on my list to get. I'm going to call Twin Power and see what they suggest...and go from there.
  The one Mark222 posted looks like a good candidate.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2017, 07:34:41 AM »
The price of that scorpion stinger looks alright but it's made in china.
I don't think I could go there.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2017, 09:15:44 AM »
For a charger, I bought the Optimate from AG. along with the battery . It will charge , maintain , test & recover if sick.
Lean Angle, " Is Life."

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2017, 10:32:03 AM »
Yep, I decided to optimate investment was worth the $$$ vs. Risk, no matter what they say about "use any charger"

Mark

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2017, 06:57:36 PM »
I got the twin power battery last year along with the bigger Optimate 4s charger. So far so good. I hooked up the charger before I installed the battery. This charger has 10 stages,took aroun 16 hrs to go through all the steps.

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2017, 04:50:30 PM »
Quick follow up.......  Stinger battery arrived, as did the optimate charger.

First or all, how does anything this lightweight have the ability to store any energy????

Installed, charged, pressed go and it spins the S&S 111 without hesitation.  Fired right off, spinning much faster / better than 1 year old lead acid "big Crank" battery. 

I'm sold at this point, all I need it to do at this time is last a while to justify the expense.  But for now, all smiles....

Mark

Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2017, 05:22:14 PM »
Quick follow up.......  Stinger battery arrived, as did the optimate charger.

First or all, how does anything this lightweight have the ability to store any energy????

Installed, charged, pressed go and it spins the S&S 111 without hesitation.  Fired right off, spinning much faster / better than 1 year old lead acid "big Crank" battery. 

I'm sold at this point, all I need it to do at this time is last a while to justify the expense.  But for now, all smiles....

Mark
:up:
Welcome to the world of lithium.
Yeah, a byproduct is the huge weight loss. It's almost unreal.
Take care of it (foam packing under and on the sides to reduce vibration), and keep it properly charged, and I'm sure it will do right by you.
Not familiar with that brand, so any updates and info on Stinger would be great.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2017, 05:37:45 PM »
No Cents, i have been using our Bikemaster Li-Ion Maintainer since we came out with it(Bikemaster is another House Brand at Biker's choice(Like Twin Power is), the one James is going to recommend is #150906, it retails for $40, I have one of James first test batteries before we even had labels made up for them. Its going on 3 yrs, my other bikes are about on 2 yrs with them. No issues yet, spin them over better than they ever did
Need a bigger garage

Offline Appowner

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2017, 05:26:12 AM »
I too would like to hear an explanation of the need for a different charger.  Something a little more technical than "It has a different profile!"  I'm sure one of our local experts can come up with something to make it all clear for everyone.

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Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline Deye76

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2017, 12:01:40 PM »
"can be quick to talk down to others.  but through unsolicited comments from other members I realize others see the same."


I can relate,  :wink:,  a guy who no longer posts here.

Back to LI batteries. On a FXR a lead acid battery weighs about 16 pounds, usually rated about 305 CCA, barely fits in the space, same tight fit in a softie oil bag. To get it in and out requires tie wraps to the posts, generally a pia. After a friend bought a Battery Tender brand LI battery for his 117" fatboy and it spins it over effortlessly, even in the low 40's Fahrenheit, I decided to try one for my FXR. 2.5 pounds 360 CCA, 2 year warranty and $169 shipped from Summit. Now I haven't had it very long, but it may well be the best battery I've had. Room to spare in the battery space. If it doesn't perform like a lead acid I'll be sure to report, if it does, same thing.  thus far very impressed.
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

Offline truck

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2017, 01:35:36 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2017, 03:03:00 PM »
No Cents, i have been using our Bikemaster Li-Ion Maintainer since we came out with it(Bikemaster is another House Brand at Biker's choice(Like Twin Power is), the one James is going to recommend is #150906, it retails for $40, I have one of James first test batteries before we even had labels made up for them. Its going on 3 yrs, my other bikes are about on 2 yrs with them. No issues yet, spin them over better than they ever did

  thanks for the reply  :up:
I called and they did suggest the part# 150906 for a charger for the Twin Power battery I bought. I did buy the charger they suggested.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline adayrider

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2017, 07:46:41 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.

Offline truck

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2017, 10:03:52 PM »
OK, got it. Thanks.
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2017, 10:08:42 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.
I believe the anti-sulfation phase of the tender is the reason it can't be used on the Li battery.

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2017, 10:49:29 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.
I believe the anti-sulfation phase of the tender is the reason it can't be used on the Li battery.

 :agree:  regular charger or tender will ruin a Li battery your bikes charging system doesn't have a anti-sulfation phase.   Bob

Offline adayrider

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2017, 09:12:13 AM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.
I believe the anti-sulfation phase of the tender is the reason it can't be used on the Li battery.

 :agree:  regular charger or tender will ruin a Li battery your bikes charging system doesn't have a anti-sulfation phase.   Bob

Battery Tender hasn't ruined mine in the 3 winters I have used it on my Ballistic

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2017, 09:39:57 AM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.
I believe the anti-sulfation phase of the tender is the reason it can't be used on the Li battery.

 :agree:  regular charger or tender will ruin a Li battery your bikes charging system doesn't have a anti-sulfation phase.   Bob

Battery Tender hasn't ruined mine in the 3 winters I have used it on my Ballistic

Good for you. I laid out 600 Canadian dollars for a 720 amp anti gravity 3 years ago. Isnt a chance I will use a different charger than the one the manufacture recommends.  To try and save 20 bucks on a charger.  The say DONT use I aint going to argue.   Bob

Offline rbabos

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2017, 09:48:38 AM »
  I would at least use the one recommended for the LI battery. There has to be some difference worth noting in the long term.
Ron

Offline adayrider

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2017, 02:44:08 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.
I believe the anti-sulfation phase of the tender is the reason it can't be used on the Li battery.

 :agree:  regular charger or tender will ruin a Li battery your bikes charging system doesn't have a anti-sulfation phase.   Bob

Battery Tender hasn't ruined mine in the 3 winters I have used it on my Ballistic

Good for you. I laid out 600 Canadian dollars for a 720 amp anti gravity 3 years ago. Isnt a chance I will use a different charger than the one the manufacture recommends.  To try and save 20 bucks on a charger.  The say DONT use I aint going to argue.   Bob

I did say brad specific. Ballistic batteries don't require a specific charger but they do clain if you use their charger it will greatly extend the life. So far I haven't found that to be true.

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2017, 03:05:48 PM »
Not to stir the pot..........  but......

The Scorpion battery I bought stated right on the website and on the brochure that "no special charger" was needed. 

AND

Then they state right below that statement that they recommend a Li Ion charger that costs $50.  I figure they know more than me, (or call me gullible), but I bought their recommended charger.  Mostly because I did not want to hear later, it should have / would have lasted longer if you has used brand the "X" charger made for Li Ion batteries, like was recommended on our website.  I invested double the money on this Li Ion battery, I think of it as cheap insurance until proven differently.

And besides, it has cool lights   :hyst:    :potstir:

Mark


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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2017, 06:35:35 PM »
   my new Twin Power Lithium- Ion battery and the charger for it is suppose to be here tomorrow according to the tracking #'s.
Do you guys suggest hooking the charger up to the battery and letting it do it's thing before putting the battery in the bike?
 And another question...the charger pigtail that I currently use for my lead acid battery...is it different than what these lithium chargers use?

Ray
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2017, 07:02:10 PM »
Same "tender" harness is fine, although it does come with a new one, it wont hurt to attach to your new battery until the indicator lights up for fully charged, should not take but  15-20 minutes on a new one
Need a bigger garage

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2017, 07:12:32 PM »
 thanks!  :up:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline m1marty

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2017, 09:41:16 PM »
You're going to like it, Ray. I hit them with the charger before firing the first time. 2-9 minutes (I timed all of them) and ready to go.
OFFO

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2017, 02:40:54 AM »
   my new Twin Power Lithium- Ion battery and the charger for it is suppose to be here tomorrow according to the tracking #'s.
Do you guys suggest hooking the charger up to the battery and letting it do it's thing before putting the battery in the bike?
 And another question...the charger pigtail that I currently use for my lead acid battery...is it different than what these lithium chargers use?

Ray
I charged mine. The pigtail that came with mine is very heavy duty looking,I'm guessing 14 Ga. you'll probably get a new pigtail with your new charger.i think the LI chargers push more voltage & amps than the old pigtails can handle.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2017, 09:12:41 AM »
I like to charge all new batteries before I install them, regardless of type.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2017, 04:27:51 PM »
   yep Hoss...I normally do too. I didn't know if these lithium battery came with a full charge in them or not. I'm treading new waters here in the lithium world of motorcycle batteries.
  The battery and charger did show up today. First thing I noticed was how light the lithium battery was. It's like feather weight compared to the gel maintenance free batteries I've ran in this bike in the past. I checked the volts of the lithium battery right out of the box and it had 13.2 volts. I hooked it up to the new led lithium charger and it took a little over an hour for the charger to say the battery was fully charged. It had 14.2 volts at full charge.
   I put it in the bike and it spun the engine over instantly. It was like I couldn't get my finger off the start button fast enough. I'll see how it spins it over tomorrow after I get the engine good and heat soaked. I will say this for it so far...I've never had a battery spin any of my HD motors over this fast.  :up:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline rbabos

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2017, 04:37:36 PM »
I like to charge all new batteries before I install them, regardless of type.
Absolutely. While the bikes charging system will eventually charge it given enough time it's better to view it as a maintainer rather then a charger. It's best to have a full deep charge done on a real charger preferably at 2 amps.
Ron

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2017, 05:08:11 PM »
 my charger.

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Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2017, 07:38:28 PM »
You're going to like it, Ray. I hit them with the charger before firing the first time. 2-9 minutes (I timed all of them) and ready to go.

Yep. You and I have the same battery, but different chargers. My lithium specific C-Tek charger took about the same amount of time to bring it to a full charge.

As I have discussed on the other page, the Twin Power battery cranks my high compression 124" effortlessly. Even after short stops for safety meetings, with the engine fully heat soaked, the battery spun it effortlessly.

I will sometimes plug the battery into the C-Tek after returning from a ride. Not really to charge the battery, but more as a rough yardstick for how well the charging system is working. The bike this is in has a Compu-Fire 3-phase, 40A charging system. After riding the bike around all night the C-Tek has never required more than a few minutes to indicate a full charge.

Sort of anxious for winter to see how it performs.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2017, 12:05:14 PM »
  well...I took the bike out and I ran it close to 100 miles before shutting it off to see how it would re-start the hot engine. I had the engine good and heat soaked.
  I hit the start button to re-start it with it only being shut off for about 30 seconds or less. It re-started the old 124 without hesitation. When I hit the start button it lit up so fast that I could hardly get my finger off the button. I'm impressed. So far the new lithium- ion battery looks like it will be a good investment if it last as long as it is advertised. I just can't get over the weight difference...it's mind boggling.

Ray
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2017, 01:53:52 PM »
  well...I took the bike out and I ran it close to 100 miles before shutting it off to see how it would re-start the hot engine. I had the engine good and heat soaked.
  I hit the start button to re-start it with it only being shut off for about 30 seconds or less. It re-started the old 124 without hesitation. When I hit the start button it lit up so fast that I could hardly get my finger off the button. I'm impressed. So far the new lithium- ion battery looks like it will be a good investment if it last as long as it is advertised. I just can't get over the weight difference...it's mind boggling.

Ray

I knew you would be one of the ones to actually try it. I am not surprised by the performance you experienced. Right on. 
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2017, 02:12:58 PM »
If the two batteries I purchased this Spring crap out in a couple years, I may have to look at switching over to one of these li batteries. Being the cheap sob I am, it's going be a bit traumatic for me.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2017, 03:11:34 PM »
  well...I took the bike out and I ran it close to 100 miles before shutting it off to see how it would re-start the hot engine. I had the engine good and heat soaked.
  I hit the start button to re-start it with it only being shut off for about 30 seconds or less. It re-started the old 124 without hesitation. When I hit the start button it lit up so fast that I could hardly get my finger off the button. I'm impressed. So far the new lithium- ion battery looks like it will be a good investment if it last as long as it is advertised. I just can't get over the weight difference...it's mind boggling.

Ray
:up: :up:
That's awesome Ray....

Offline Deye76

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2017, 04:41:31 PM »
Ray, what's the CCA on your battery?
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Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2017, 06:17:18 PM »
Ray, what's the CCA on your battery?

If it is the Twin Power lithium battery, it is rated at 400 CCA.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2017, 06:41:41 PM »
Ray, what's the CCA on your battery?

If it is the Twin Power lithium battery, it is rated at 400 CCA.
Ours are 400. His is 625 iirc being a touring model.
OFFO

Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2017, 06:46:02 PM »
Ray, what's the CCA on your battery?

Reply #19  its the 625 CCA model    Bob

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2017, 07:02:55 PM »
 yes that's correct...the one I got is the Twin Power 625 CCA battery for the baggers.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline jmorton10

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2017, 07:48:35 PM »
I have had this battery & charger setup in my 124" RK going on 3 years now.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/extreme-power/atx20/

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/optimate-tm-291/

This literally spins the motor like the plugs have been removed & it weighs almost nothing.

When it's parked, I plug the charger in (the pigtail is exactly the same as my old Battery Tender).  I have started it in 15 degree weather & over 100 degree weather.  It starts exactly the same (instantly) dead cold/hot soak whatever.

This is with the stock starter & S&S EZ-start 640 cams.

~John
HC 124", Dragula, Pingel air shift W/Dyna Shift Minder & onboard compressor, NOS

Offline Deye76

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2017, 05:09:55 AM »
yes that's correct...the one I got is the Twin Power 625 CCA battery for the baggers.

That should "get it done".  :up:
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2017, 02:17:03 PM »
 
    Do you guys take your lithium ion batteries out of your bikes in cold winter weather...and bring them indoors where it's warm?
My barn gets pretty cold in the winter...and is not heated.

  I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my lithium ion battery has spun my 124 over all summer long like it had the plugs out of it.  :up:   ...best battery I've ever used.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2017, 02:25:58 PM »
Ray, I leave mine in, my main garage where they stay in the winter is not heated. I live in central Wisconsin, it gets cold. I do use the Bikemaster Li-Ion battery tender on them all winter(mostly)
Going on 3rd winter with them
Need a bigger garage

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2017, 02:39:33 PM »
   thanks for the reply!  :up:
I have the same battery tender.
   I'll just keep the battery in the bike and maintain it the way I did my old battery. I wasn't sure how guys were maintaining them in cold winter climates. It can stay below freezing around here for many weeks at a time.  Old man winter is knocking at the door.  :emoGroan:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Hossamania

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2017, 03:21:55 PM »
Old man winter kicked the door in around here. 11 degrees when I went past the bank sign last night. On my bike. 'Twas a bit chilly.
Good to know about leaving the lithium batteries out in the cold. I don't have the new tools with lithium batteries yet from my company, still using the old style tools with NiCad batteries, they sit out in the van all winter. I know I can't recharge them when they are cold, they need to warm up first. A little inconvenient on a job site.
Anybody know how the lithium batteries work when cold? Ray, have you tried starting your bike when it is really cold?
Anybody with Li batteries on their tools, do the tool batteries work when cold, do they recharge when cold?
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Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2017, 03:38:40 PM »
In the great white north here I pull the battery and put it in the house. Hook it to the charger for a cycle then disconnect and leave till spring. In spring run it a cycle on the charger and re-install. For what I paid for the battery I am not leaving it in the bike and taking the chance of a tender failure. I have a AG 24-720 in a Dyna which is easy to pull. Like I said for what the battery cost I will pull it and not take any chances running them down to low will ruin them.   Bob

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2017, 03:55:31 PM »
  Hoss...the bike gets fired up and ridden about everyday I could so far this season. The only time is hasn't seen the pavement is when it's raining out.
  This morning is was below freezing and I turned the bike on and waited about five seconds after the fuel pump cycled...and then I hit the starter button. It fired it up instantly.
 
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Hossamania

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2017, 04:03:07 PM »
Nice. I'm proud of you for riding in that kind of weather!
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2017, 05:34:43 PM »
Hoss-I've got some 10yr old Makita Li-Ion tools, the batteries are always in the garage w/ the tools. Never noticed any issues, I've used them in below freezing several times and used the charger too. I don't use every day but nothing sticks out about ever having issues in the cold

Ray-Yep, when the Li-Ion batteries get cold, they like a little load on them to wake up

Yeah, winter is not far off..seen some real salty vehicles coming out of northern WI, UP today, thats the deal breaker for me around home, the damn salt...Winter tires going on my vehicle tomorrow
Need a bigger garage

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2017, 06:05:37 PM »
Luckily for me, I don't let the salt bother me. I like my HD, but it's just a bike to bring me joy. Riding in the winter sometimes brings me joy, so it gets ridden. When it rots, I'll decide whether it gets fixed, or not. It's got a lot of hard miles on it, it still runs good, I'll run it into the ground. A lot of good used bikes in much better condition out there to replace it when it's time.

Oh, and thanks for the info on the batteries.
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Offline Chippitt68

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2017, 07:38:03 PM »
Old man winter kicked the door in around here. 11 degrees when I went past the bank sign last night. On my bike. 'Twas a bit chilly.
Good to know about leaving the lithium batteries out in the cold. I don't have the new tools with lithium batteries yet from my company, still using the old style tools with NiCad batteries, they sit out in the van all winter. I know I can't recharge them when they are cold, they need to warm up first. A little inconvenient on a job site.
Anybody know how the lithium batteries work when cold? Ray, have you tried starting your bike when it is really cold?
Anybody with Li batteries on their tools, do the tool batteries work when cold, do they recharge when cold?

Never had any issues with temp on any of my impact guns or
Drills. Charge fine and no noticeable
Decrease in run time

Offline 76shuvlinoff

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2017, 04:33:00 AM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

If I typed the part number in the search correctly this looks like $195 from Walmart. When I called my dealer about a battery for my 12 Ultra a couple years ago they wanted $180ish for a stocker.  :wtf: If that $195 number is good then it's a no brainer.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2017, 04:42:49 AM »
  Hoss...salt covered roads is where I draw the line. I won't ride when the roads get salt covered around here anymore.
Every winter I chomp at the bit waiting for the road salt to get washed away.
  I had an old Evo bagger that I road thru five winters in a row on salt covered roads. If it wasn't snowing or icing that day...I was riding the bike to work. I would ride it daily 25 miles one way to work. The frame and the underside of the bike showed the ugly scars left behind by the road salt. Road salt will destroy a bike quickly.

  Mark...I paid more than that for my battery. Mine was $255.00 to my door.
Best battery I have ever used. You can't get your finger off the starter button fast enough. It spins the engine over that quick.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline koko3052

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2017, 08:03:12 AM »
Where are you guys finding those prices? I googled & found $410 from AG & around $370 on Amazon & that was it. :scratch:

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2017, 10:00:23 AM »
 E-Bay is where I bought mine.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #92 on: November 11, 2017, 10:31:21 AM »
  I bought my battery back at the end of May. I had it the 1st week of June. I did put the battery on the lithium ion charger I bought before installing the battery. If memory serves me correct it took a good half hour for the charger to say it was full. I ran that battery right up to present day without ever putting the charger back on it.
  Today I went out to the barn for giggles and shits and figured I'd hook the charger up to it to see how long it took to say it's fully charged.
  I was shocked...it took less than 4 minutes to give me the green full light. That's the bike sitting in the cold barn with no heat and the outside temp being under freezing.

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Offline kd

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2017, 11:29:29 AM »
Ray, do you have security on the Duracell?
KD

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2017, 12:13:19 PM »
I leave mine in the bike,unheated semi insulated garage.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2017, 01:22:39 PM »
Ray, do you have security on the Duracell?

  yes
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2017, 01:50:58 PM »
That's interesting that it holds a charge that well. I was going to buy the AntiGravity battery but the discussion I had with Scott at AntiGravity was that security and Lojac systems could draw down the charge. I have both security and Lojac (locating after a theft) systems so opted to not buy it.
KD

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2017, 03:17:54 PM »
  kd...when I walk into the barn I always glace over at the bike to see if the security light blinks.
I was concerned in the beginning it might draw the battery down with the light blinking on and off all the time...but it apparently doesn't bother it. Like I said earlier...it spins my 124" over like the plugs are out of it. I'm very impressed with the strength of the battery. I'll see how well it does when we hit the super cold weather.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2017, 03:38:49 PM »
one of the reasons lithium batteries are recommended and used in low current applications such as fobs, cameras, remote controls, smoke alarms, etc

Offline 76shuvlinoff

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2017, 04:50:08 PM »
Where are you guys finding those prices? I googled & found $410 from AG & around $370 on Amazon & that was it. :scratch:

I typed the part number off that battery in Ray's page 1 pic into the Bing search bar, off on the right was a Walmart link. I am not shopping for a battery but at that price I might be.  - Mark

edit: now I see the battery in the link is not the same part number,  my bad.

https://goo.gl/FWunAR


goo.gl to the rescue 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 04:56:44 PM by FSG »
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2017, 05:16:57 PM »
 :agree: with 76. The listing is wrong. The touring battery is a 30L not the 20HL.
KD

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #101 on: November 13, 2017, 06:36:02 PM »
The V Twin battery looks like my friends Bike Master Lithium.

https://bikemaster.com/batteries/lithium-ion-batteries.html

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #102 on: January 01, 2018, 06:11:38 AM »
  -2* outside and it's been cold for a good week here in SW Ohio.
A tropical heat wave coming Tuesday and Wednesday.
  I figured I'd throw the lithium ion battery on the charger and see how long it took to come up to full charge beings it's so cold out.
It took less than a minute to say it was up to full charge.  :SM:

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Offline motorhogman

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #103 on: January 01, 2018, 06:26:54 AM »
  I have to admit that this is the most I have ever paid for a battery...but if it does what they claim...it should be well worth the money.
I followed the lithium battery threads over the years and I've seen the technology grow. I think these Lithium batteries will be the wave of the future and I hope to see the prices eventually come down some.
  Paul...I won't see the battery until next week some time...but I'll let you know how it does as soon as it shows up.
Sounds good Ray.
As far as price, just be glad you didn't have to pay Braille prices!
https://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/braille/product_batteries/ml20c

Wonder if they actually sell any of those at that price ?

Also question ?  It's a 16 AH battery.. Aren't HD systems designed for a 28 AH Battery ?



where's the points and condenser ?
Tom / aka motor

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #104 on: January 01, 2018, 06:51:50 AM »
   All I know is the Twin Power battery I bought cost me 1/5 of what a Braille battery lists for. With all the racing teams using the Braille brand...it is no doubt got to be the best battery money can buy. Race teams want, and try to use the best...of everything.
  So far I don't have a single complaint with my Twin Power battery. It's by far the strongest battery I have ever used in a Harley. I'm very happy with it.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #105 on: January 01, 2018, 09:27:43 AM »
Anyone running the lithium in a softail? I'm still conserned about the battery being wrapped inside the oil tank and heat, fires, especially here in Florida heat.

Offline mrmike

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #106 on: January 01, 2018, 09:42:31 AM »
No Cents, that's good to know as I've been considering upgrading the AGM I currently have and haven't been impressed with it right from the start.

My original battery lasted 9 years without a problem no heat garage and no tender ever.

This one is in a heated garage and on a tender  :crook:, though I was thinking ahead and bought a charger that will also do Li Ion batteries.

This past year I had to upgrade all of my battery tools as their batteries were shot so I'm running Milwaukee 18v Li Ion and their performance doesn't seem to be affected by sitting in my truck for weeks or the cold weather.

It's always good to hear real world experience.

Mike
I'm not leaving til I have a good time

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #107 on: January 01, 2018, 10:32:22 AM »
Anyone running the lithium in a softail? I'm still conserned about the battery being wrapped inside the oil tank and heat, fires, especially here in Florida heat.

I have run one in my Deuce for the last 6 years without any fires yet.
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Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #108 on: January 02, 2018, 09:03:09 AM »
Anyone running the lithium in a softail? I'm still conserned about the battery being wrapped inside the oil tank and heat, fires, especially here in Florida heat.

I have run one in my Deuce for the last 6 years without any fires yet.
:up:

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #109 on: January 02, 2018, 12:37:01 PM »
I have the smaller Twin Power lithium batter in two of my bikes. Until last night, the bikes had not been fired in the last two weeks. Like most of the USA, it has been brutally cold here the last two weeks. Both bikes fired right up after five minutes of running the headlight. Once woken up, both bikes (High compression 124") fired right up.  Neither bike had a maintainer hooked up, but they also don't have any electronics that draw current when the bikes are parked.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #110 on: January 02, 2018, 12:53:05 PM »
   Ed...my bike has the security system on it...so it has a light that blinks on and off a few times every minute. I was scared that might put a strain on the battery beings it's been so damn cold out for the past few weeks...but apparently it didn't affect it any with it taking less than a minute to show a full charge after I hooked it up to the maintainer. I hope it continues to hold a charge like it has so far.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2018, 05:01:26 AM »
I have seen the same thing when I have hooked up the maintainer. I will probably never go back to using a box filled with led and acid on any of my bikes.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2018, 06:10:58 AM »
   Ed...my bike has the security system on it...so it has a light that blinks on and off a few times every minute.
I had a 2001 Ultra and the security system had a feature that would stop the light from blinking after so many days to preserve the battery. Don't they have that feature anymore?
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2018, 07:07:12 AM »
   I don't know truck...that's the first I've heard of that.  :nix:
Mine blinks constantly...no matter how long the bike has sat. 
  In the past with an acid or gel battery the blinking light seemed to put a draw on the battery during the winter months when it was cold. I would test voltage at the pig tail and then hook the charger up to them and it might take a few hours to bring the battery up to full charge in the dead of winter. This lithium battery so far seems to not lose it's charge in the cold weather like the other batteries did. With it being below zero degrees lately at night, I decided to hook the maintainer up to it again this morning. It took less than a minute for it to say it was fully charged again. Fully charged my Fluke meter says it has 14.1 volts.
   So far I'm very impressed with the lithium ion battery.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2018, 07:15:14 AM »
   Ed...my bike has the security system on it...so it has a light that blinks on and off a few times every minute.
I had a 2001 Ultra and the security system had a feature that would stop the light from blinking after so many days to preserve the battery. Don't they have that feature anymore?

I have an 01' FLH 
When you put the security system in "storage mode"  the dash light does not flash to conserve battery power.
where's the points and condenser ?
Tom / aka motor

Offline ecir50

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2018, 03:26:28 PM »
measure the draw, would think something in the computer use power all the time too. Around 30mA is acceptable and will not drain your battery

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2018, 03:49:26 PM »
   Ed...my bike has the security system on it...so it has a light that blinks on and off a few times every minute.
I had a 2001 Ultra and the security system had a feature that would stop the light from blinking after so many days to preserve the battery. Don't they have that feature anymore?

I have an 01' FLH 
When you put the security system in "storage mode"  the dash light does not flash to conserve battery power.
That's probably what I was thinking about.
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2018, 04:16:25 PM »
Anyone running the lithium in a softail? I'm still conserned about the battery being wrapped inside the oil tank and heat, fires, especially here in Florida heat.

I have run one in my Deuce for the last 6 years without any fires yet.
Ok, ordered one, 20h twin power on eBay,  for $192. I get two years out of a big crank or hd due to the Florida heat frying the battery, so hope this last 4.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2018, 06:42:03 PM »
If you've never held one, you will be amazed at how light they are.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2018, 06:37:05 AM »
If you've never held one, you will be amazed at how light they are.

I have and I was.. When I went to bulbs and batteries to pick up my Duracell the sales guy tried his best to sell me one..Was about $350 with the charger. 

He took it off the shelf and says "hold this"   !  Yep it was like an empty box compared to the Duracell.
where's the points and condenser ?
Tom / aka motor

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2018, 06:46:41 AM »
   I wish I would of weighed the difference in the batteries when I put the lithium battery in.
It's amazing how much lighter the lithium battery is.  :up:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2018, 06:51:26 AM »
our shippping weight for a bagger AGM is 25.1# and the bagger Li-Ion is 6.0, that is 19# lighter....
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #122 on: January 05, 2018, 07:24:52 AM »
Are these batteries the same size, just for ease of install, or are they smaller, needing some padding to tighten them up?
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #123 on: January 05, 2018, 07:30:30 AM »
   Hoss...for my bagger it was a direct replacement.
Pulled the old heavy ass AGM battery out...and I dropped the new feather weight lithium battery in.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #124 on: January 05, 2018, 07:39:47 AM »
Good to know, thanks Ray.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #125 on: January 05, 2018, 07:44:33 AM »
Same thing for my FXRs. Twin Power makes this battery in both sizes, so they are a direct, drop in replacement for the oem batteries on most every harley.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #126 on: January 05, 2018, 07:56:44 AM »
Hoss, the Twin Power are same case size as OEM, flush solid terminals as well
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Offline Azgunner

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #127 on: January 05, 2018, 08:15:58 AM »
I've got a Twin Power in my '02 Dyna with a S&S 124HC & so far it made it thru one 115° summer without missing a beat. So far, I too, am very happy with it!
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #128 on: January 11, 2018, 12:53:27 PM »
I got one of these and used it to start my 30 year old 4.1 liter gas powered Cadillac. It worked perfectly. Got me thinking about using it or one like it in a bike. It weighs next to nothing takes up hardly any room. I don't know if it would like the bikes charging system or if it could take the shaking the bike would give it, but it's something to think about.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #129 on: January 16, 2018, 05:27:51 PM »
Anyone running the lithium in a softail? I'm still conserned about the battery being wrapped inside the oil tank and heat, fires, especially here in Florida heat.

I have run one in my Deuce for the last 6 years without any fires yet.
Ok, ordered one, 20h twin power on eBay,  for $192. I get two years out of a big crank or hd due to the Florida heat frying the battery, so hope this last 4.
Battery came, and I got it installed. What a headache pulling out the old one, pleasure putting in the new one. Bike really cranks great, before I always had to pull the choke, now it cranks so fast there is no need except when real cold.
Thanks guys for talking me into it.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #130 on: January 17, 2018, 09:25:21 AM »
Read thru all the replies and saw a few posts touching on this:  I just moved to Las Vegas and I know the heat will chew through a battery quicker.  I just put in a Yuasa 500 CCA this spring.  I have a higher ccp build (205ish) that I know would appreciate a lithium battery.  My question is:  how do these hold up in the heat?  I'd hate to buy one if they will only last a couple years baking in my garage.  And, I guess like others, I'm concerned about the increased chance of fire due to the heat in the garage during the summer temps here. 

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #131 on: January 17, 2018, 09:46:22 AM »
I live in southeastern NC, while not as hot as it is in Vegas, it is still pretty hot. Have had the smaller sized Twin Power lithium batter in two of my FXRs for two years. Both of them have 124" engines that crank higher than your 205. The smaller batteries have not had any issues. One bike has a 2kw Tech Cycle starter, the other bike has a 1.7kw Terry starter. Both bikes run 2ga battery cables.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #132 on: January 26, 2018, 10:03:52 AM »
I refuse to but one . Cobalt is mined in Africa by 5-7 year old enslaved children .

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #133 on: January 26, 2018, 10:16:11 AM »
So you don't have a cell phone or lap top?
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #134 on: January 26, 2018, 10:30:15 AM »
Or any Li powered tools? Which are awesome, by the way.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #135 on: January 29, 2018, 10:01:00 AM »
DO NOT USE lithium batteries . At work we had to build a separate building to store them . They WILL blow up .

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #136 on: January 29, 2018, 11:48:49 AM »
Ironhead, whoooa, there are many different kinds of Li-Ion batteries, I think we will all be ok
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #137 on: January 29, 2018, 01:26:29 PM »
DO NOT USE lithium batteries . At work we had to build a separate building to store them . They WILL blow up .

You were asked if you have a cell phone or laptop, do you? Lithium batteries are literally everywhere without issues.

Making outlandish statements like that does not help you persuade others on your opinion. You only make yourself look foolish when you make wild, over the top statements like that.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #138 on: January 29, 2018, 02:56:36 PM »
ironhead did state he would not "but" one, maybe thats when they explode....

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Offline longrider1951

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #139 on: January 29, 2018, 05:09:33 PM »
I have 2 Bikes that I'm running Lithium batteries in and I'm happy with the results. The thing I don't understand is the need to use a special charger/tender for them; the charging system on your bike doesn't know what battery you're using and works just fine. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2018, 07:02:24 PM »
Thumper-thanks for the link, hope Ironhead reads it......
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #142 on: January 29, 2018, 07:12:47 PM »
Thumper, I scanned the article and didn't see anything that seemed related to the question about how they survive charging with the vehicle charging system. I know the jump-start batteries have instructions to immediately disconnect the battery pac after it has started an engine. The claim is the car charge system will damage the jump-start battery. Now I know there are lots of lithium batteries in all types of vehicles that don't seem to be effected in daily drivers.  :scratch:  Maybe the fact the regulator dials down the amperage as the battery accepts the charge?   :nix:
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #144 on: January 30, 2018, 06:31:35 AM »
Thanks for that Thumper.

What I get from that is that the Harley charge system is not really suitable for charging lithium batteries. The reason as I see it is, they have a permanent magnet alternator. A permanent magnet charging system has a constant rate of input to the rotor which will produce a higher rate of charge to a badly discharged battery. It seems the higher charge rate is what harms the lithium battery.  The frequency of the multi magnet Harley charging system may mitigate this effect somewhat but the bottom line is the charge rate will still be higher than recommended. A heavily discharged battery would not have the benefit of a lower field contribution because it is not contributed to by the consequently low charge state of the battery (like that which powers a conventional automotive style charging system).

I know there are members here that have have lithium batteries that they claim give good life. I am trying to understand how, if the Harley charging system is so counter to the norm and against the typical charge rates of lithium battery chargers or automotive systems. I can see how the automotive systems may be better suited. Losing the charge on a lithium battery when you are away from your lithium battery charger may be a big problem also. If the Harley charging system is not harming these batteries maybe the solution is jump starting and letting the motorcycle charging system take over?
KD

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #145 on: January 30, 2018, 06:42:38 AM »
All three of my FXR's have 3-phase charging systems (different brands) and lithium batteries, also of different brands. Three years, no issues with any of them charging or holding a charge in between rides. I have a lithium specific charger, but have only used it once (I left the lights on). It is sometimes a few months in between rides on the more radical bikes. None of them has ever failed to start. Will add that all of these bikes are carberated, crank at over 200 lbs and are a mix of Evo (2) and TC (1) engines.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #146 on: January 30, 2018, 07:03:53 AM »
Those of us with parasitic security systems, clocks, LoJack trackers etc. (all of which I have) may have problems. I have been wanting to try a lithium high capacity battery for a while. When I spoke with Antigravity on the phone and at SEMA they said that was a problem if the bike was sitting idle for long periods. Mine only sits idle in the winter but that's just me. 
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #147 on: January 30, 2018, 07:28:01 AM »
For winter, just throw it on the charger once a month. That wouldn't stop me from getting one. I have to do it now anyway with the crappy agm batteries I have.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #148 on: January 30, 2018, 08:06:29 AM »
Lead battery chargers have a pulsating, de-sulfating phase. Lithium chargers do not.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #149 on: January 30, 2018, 08:17:40 AM »
Those of us with parasitic security systems, clocks, LoJack trackers etc. (all of which I have) may have problems. I have been wanting to try a lithium high capacity battery for a while. When I spoke with Antigravity on the phone and at SEMA they said that was a problem if the bike was sitting idle for long periods. Mine only sits idle in the winter but that's just me.

My point was not so much about the maintainer aspect or the batteries holding a charge, but more so to the fact that a harley charging system is very capable of charging a lithium battery. Parasitic loss when the bike is parked would require a maintainer, but there aren't any issues with a harley charging system being able charge them.
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #150 on: January 30, 2018, 08:42:23 AM »
Lead battery chargers have a pulsating, de-sulfating phase. Lithium chargers do not.

So I'm assuming the charging system does not have this phase, and therefore is safe for lithium batteries?
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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #151 on: January 30, 2018, 09:06:27 AM »
Lead battery chargers have a pulsating, de-sulfating phase. Lithium chargers do not.

So I'm assuming the charging system does not have this phase, and therefore is safe for lithium batteries?

That is correct.  Bob

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #152 on: January 30, 2018, 11:42:43 AM »
The only thing that worries me about LI batteries is the price of admission. If not for that I'd be using them.
Greg

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #153 on: January 30, 2018, 01:19:45 PM »
They’re not too bad anymore. I got my ATX 780cca for well under $400. The improvement in starting is incredible and worth every penny.

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #154 on: January 30, 2018, 04:05:45 PM »
The Twin Power bagger is $299.95 msrp
Is it the end-all of the lead acid battery, not anytime soon, however where the extra cca is required, or just the faster spin up makes ya happy, or a guy is trying to shave some ballast from a bike, they fit the bill. The specific maintainer is $39.95 msrp, so all in, is still not that terrible
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Offline 1workinman

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #155 on: January 30, 2018, 04:07:45 PM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
  Ray the battery that you had was a lithium ion battery ? I remember I think lol reading you bought one a while back . I have considered buying one but I only drive the heavy sleds lol even with the warmed over motors , I would consider buying one if it was a way to help start the engine although I don't have a problem now. I don't mind spending a few dollars If it is worth while . Thanks for the advice Ray look forward to seeing how it works out

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #156 on: January 30, 2018, 04:44:36 PM »
  Jim...yes I have the Twin Power lithium ion battery in my bike. It has 625cca's
I've put the maintainer on it a total of 4 different times this winter so far. It's never taken over two minutes to say the battery was up to full charge. That with the bike sitting in an un-heated, non-insulated barn with a concrete floor. Temp's have been down into single digits for days at a time. It's held up nicely thru the cold temp's so far.
  I bought mine off E-Bay for $255.00...with free shipping.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline 1workinman

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #157 on: January 30, 2018, 05:33:23 PM »
  Jim...yes I have the Twin Power lithium ion battery in my bike. It has 625cca's
I've put the maintainer on it a total of 4 different times this winter so far. It's never taken over two minutes to say the battery was up to full charge. That with the bike sitting in an un-heated, non-insulated barn with a concrete floor. Temp's have been down into single digits for days at a time. It's held up nicely thru the cold temp's so far.
  I bought mine off E-Bay for $255.00...with free shipping.
  Ok thanks when mine goes belly up I give that a try , nothing like being off some where and the battery dies . I know it not the same but I had a gel cell on my Lincoln pipe liner for seemed like 9 years impressive to me

Offline Ironheadmike

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #158 on: February 02, 2018, 03:35:34 AM »
DO NOT USE lithium batteries . At work we had to build a separate building to store them . They WILL blow up .

You were asked if you have a cell phone or laptop, do you? Lithium batteries are literally everywhere without issues.

Making outlandish statements like that does not help you persuade others on your opinion. You only make yourself look foolish when you make wild, over the top statements like that.
No I do not own a cell phone or a lap top or any battery operated tools . I know that where I work we had to build a separate building , like a powder room, to store them and they have to be shipped separately . I have seen what they do to a 6 ton piece of equipment . So no I'm not foolish . I just don't trust them .

Online No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #159 on: February 02, 2018, 03:58:53 AM »
   you know...man has came a long way over time.
We don't use rocks as wheels anymore.
What harm did a lithium battery do to a 6 ton piece of equipment?  :scratch:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Hossamania

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #160 on: February 02, 2018, 04:20:06 AM »
No cell phone?
No laptop?
You're my hero!
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Offline kd

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #161 on: February 02, 2018, 05:55:03 AM »
DO NOT USE lithium batteries . At work we had to build a separate building to store them . They WILL blow up .

You were asked if you have a cell phone or laptop, do you? Lithium batteries are literally everywhere without issues.

Making outlandish statements like that does not help you persuade others on your opinion. You only make yourself look foolish when you make wild, over the top statements like that.
No I do not own a cell phone or a lap top or any battery operated tools . I know that where I work we had to build a separate building , like a powder room, to store them and they have to be shipped separately . I have seen what they do to a 6 ton piece of equipment . So no I'm not foolish . I just don't trust them .


Lots of large shops (like the one I used to work in) have dedicated "battery rooms" for storage and maintenance charging with firewalls, heavy doors and good venting. I guess we shouldn't use lead / acid power either.  :scratch: They (lead / acid) have shipping restrictions too. Google up a few lead / acid explosion videos (car battery explosion) .  :dgust: BTW, gasoline is highly explosive. Lets stop using combustion engines in our cars and bikes. Oh ya, the alternative is battery power. I'm sure you get my point. Pick your poison, get educated and be safe.  .... or move into the mountains and live off grid.
KD

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #162 on: February 02, 2018, 08:42:42 AM »
   Before I retired I worked for an electric utility.
We had to store everything from gasoline, batteries, to WD-40 in safety cabinets in the shop. Anything marked flammable, or explosive was stored in these cabinets. Hell...OSHA even wanted us to store the chainsaw mix on the bucket trucks inside a bin that was marked as "explosive".  :doh:   Paint, WD-40, wasp stopper, and even Windex, etc was required to be stored in that bin. In 30 years of service there I never did see any of those things explode...or ignite.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Nastytls

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #163 on: February 02, 2018, 09:08:35 AM »
People choose what they’re going to be freaked out by based on their personal biases. As said above, anything can be dangerous in the right circumstances. Traditional lead batteries can be encredibly dangerous.

Offline kd

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #164 on: February 02, 2018, 09:34:19 AM »
I've watched 2 people blow the tops off from improper jump starting technique.  :dgust: Both individuals were lucky to not lose their eyesight. Their clothing, .... different story.  :crook:
KD

Offline Ironheadmike

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #165 on: February 02, 2018, 09:55:47 AM »
   you know...man has came a long way over time.
We don't use rocks as wheels anymore.
What harm did a lithium battery do to a 6 ton piece of equipment?  :scratch:
It blew up a street sweeper to where you couldn't tell what it was .

Offline Nastytls

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #166 on: February 02, 2018, 03:01:07 PM »
It’s not C4. I find that hard believe, unless something was done to it intentionally to make that happen.

Offline hattitude

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #167 on: February 02, 2018, 04:57:46 PM »
My main concern with Lithium batteries, is on long trips......

Let's say to you are going cross-country with 5 or 6 days, riding 4+ hours a day....?

Everything I've read says it's bad to overcharge them, keeping them fully charged stresses the battery & shortens service life, and the dedicated Lithium battery chargers stop charging when the batteries get to about 85% of full charge....

So how does a Harley charging system, charging a lithium battery in the above profile, NOT hurt the battery?

I may be missing something, but if you put it in a bike that you use for multi-day trips... won't you be damaging the battery?

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #168 on: February 02, 2018, 06:06:15 PM »
My main concern with Lithium batteries, is on long trips......

Let's say to you are going cross-country with 5 or 6 days, riding 4+ hours a day....?

Everything I've read says it's bad to overcharge them, keeping them fully charged stresses the battery & shortens service life, and the dedicated Lithium battery chargers stop charging when the batteries get to about 85% of full charge....

So how does a Harley charging system, charging a lithium battery in the above profile, NOT hurt the battery?

I may be missing something, but if you put it in a bike that you use for multi-day trips... won't you be damaging the battery?

I have ridden coast to coast several times with a lithium battery in the bike. Miraculously, the sky didnt fall. That was several years. That early, Anti-Gravity battery is still going strong, spinning a high compression, carburated 124". No issues.
 
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Online boooby1744

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #169 on: February 02, 2018, 06:20:33 PM »
I got the Twin power battery almost 2 years ago. I charged it with an Optimate TM 290 5 amp device. It performs 8 tests/cycles,it took 16 hours to finish! Haven’t used it since and all good. Did a couple of multi day road trips. I just make sure I take my Antigravity xp1 with me at all times.

Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #170 on: February 02, 2018, 06:26:59 PM »
Search carefully....very carefully, and look back at posts several years ago as to who actually ran lithium and who didn't in their Harley's years ago and decide.
Bullshit on lithium improvement-they are basically the same as 5-10 years ago.
Only difference is who had the balls to run them, who didn't, and who were the haters who didn't do squat but flap their gums.
Truth.

Period-

I was one of the the leaders (first on this forum running multiple lithium batteries in my bikes -street and strip-starting 10 years ago), and getting hated hard years ago-slammed by the wannabes in posts on this forum for my running lithium in my bikes. All, yeah critics, ALL were by posers, dreamers, sheep-those who actually NEVER ran lithium in their bikes ("have you run lithium in your Harley???"....".well...no but I heard bad things about them!!!".....lol..)
 All good though, as when you step out front in the line of fire, stick your head out and charge out of the foxhole, you may take hits, and risk getting your head blown off, but the weak, crouched and afraid....who stay behind while other test the waters, will always, always (Harley's, or anything in life),  be known as followers. Lead, follow......or get the F out of the way-

Are you the Sherperd or the sheep? Or, what I've seen in the last few years.....sheep following the Shepard who now think they are leaders ("Things seem good now! "I'm speaking up!"), when they lived in the flock of sheep and didn't have the balls to step out and risk being a Shepard till everything was SAFE-

Flash forward to now.......
90% all good and just a trickle of the haters around, who will soon disappear like a fart in the wind....

Lithium is the future and lead is dead, very soon.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 06:41:36 PM by pwmorris »

Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #171 on: February 03, 2018, 04:01:40 AM »
Everything I've read says it's bad to overcharge them, keeping them fully charged stresses the battery & shortens service life, and the dedicated Lithium battery chargers stop charging when the batteries get to about 85% of full charge....

So how does a Harley charging system, charging a lithium battery in the above profile, NOT hurt the battery?
That is the job of the voltage regulator to keep the voltage charge to the battery/bike between 13.5 and 14.5.
The battery is for storage in overload times and for starting, the alternator supplies the current to run the bike.
When the charging  voltage goes above 14.5 the regulator regulates the current going to the alternator and the alternator reduces it output.
When the voltage falls below 13.5 then the regulator increases output to the alternator.
Your regulator does not care if the battery is lithium or lead, you can overcharge a lead battery as well if your regulator is overcharging, and will boil the battery.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 05:29:39 AM by Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers »

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #172 on: February 03, 2018, 07:08:40 AM »
Search carefully....very carefully, and look back at posts several years ago as to who actually ran lithium and who didn't in their Harley's years ago and decide.
Bullshit on lithium improvement-they are basically the same as 5-10 years ago.
Only difference is who had the balls to run them, who didn't, and who were the haters who didn't do squat but flap their gums.
Truth.

Period-

I was one of the the leaders (first on this forum running multiple lithium batteries in my bikes -street and strip-starting 10 years ago), and getting hated hard years ago-slammed by the wannabes in posts on this forum for my running lithium in my bikes. All, yeah critics, ALL were by posers, dreamers, sheep-those who actually NEVER ran lithium in their bikes ("have you run lithium in your Harley???"....".well...no but I heard bad things about them!!!".....lol..)
 All good though, as when you step out front in the line of fire, stick your head out and charge out of the foxhole, you may take hits, and risk getting your head blown off, but the weak, crouched and afraid....who stay behind while other test the waters, will always, always (Harley's, or anything in life),  be known as followers. Lead, follow......or get the F out of the way-

Are you the Sherperd or the sheep? Or, what I've seen in the last few years.....sheep following the Shepard who now think they are leaders ("Things seem good now! "I'm speaking up!"), when they lived in the flock of sheep and didn't have the balls to step out and risk being a Shepard till everything was SAFE-

Flash forward to now.......
90% all good and just a trickle of the haters around, who will soon disappear like a fart in the wind....

Lithium is the future and lead is dead, very soon.
:up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
Lean Angle, " Is Life."

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #173 on: April 08, 2018, 08:35:27 PM »
I ride through all winter. I have heated clothes.

My Dyna powers my clothes to the point they get way too hot. (There is a button to turn them down, fortunately!)

I think the Dyna charging system is > 1,000 watts.

On my Sportster, the clothes get warm but nowhere close to too hot. I have to assume the charging system is less watts.

So, the question: If I put a lithium ion battery in my Sportster:

Will my clothes get warmer?
Will I over-discharge the battery?

I have a JW Speaker LED headlight which uses less watts, and I plan to get LED turn signals/running lights. Right now my Sportster’s lead acid battery does not over-discharge even after hours of running my clothes. If I turn the heated pants off I can get the heated jacket warmer, so that kinda tells me that I need more amps. Maybe I need a stator with more windings?

If a lithium ion battery will help that would be cool.

Offline joelp34252

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2018, 09:00:55 PM »
My take on the Harley charging systems,at least on the older bikes,is the alternator is running 100% all the time. The regulator shunts the charge to the ground when the battery gets up to charge. I may be wrong on this, but that is my understanding on a permanent magnet alternator.

Joel 2001 FLHT