Author Topic: lithium ion batteries.....  (Read 5130 times)

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Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2017, 05:42:16 PM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

(Attachment Link)

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I have this battery in my red FXR, it easily spins the little TC124 with 11.9 compression. The customer service at Twin Power for these batteries is headed by none other than James Simonelli. I won't get into the details, but will say that James is on top of things.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2017, 05:46:30 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.

They do require a special charger/maintainer. I have a C-Tek but there are others. The dongle is different to prevent them being plugged into non LiPo batteries. I let my Anti-Gravity battery run right down to nothing, didn't catch it for several months. The little C-Tek charger brought it back within a few hours. A year latter it will still start a neighbors tractor.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline hattitude

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2017, 05:59:30 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.

They do require a special charger/maintainer. I have a C-Tek but there are others. The dongle is different to prevent them being plugged into non LiPo batteries. I let my Anti-Gravity battery run right down to nothing, didn't catch it for several months. The little C-Tek charger brought it back within a few hours. A year latter it will still start a neighbors tractor.

I've always been interested in the LiPo technology.... but I've asked this question before and don't remember getting an answer...

Just like a different charge profile is needed for a gel cell battery v wet cell/AGM battery... apparently a LiPo battery needs a different charger.... what is the specific charging profile needed for a LiPo battery, and/or how does it differ from the others...?

If the LiPo technology needs a different charger... what effect does a Harley electrical system, set up for an AGM/Wet cell batteries, have on a LiPo battery... for example driving for 4 to 6 hours a day on a multi-day trip...?

Online FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2017, 06:38:20 PM »
The only problem I've had was two winters ago I had the battery on the charger over the winter and the charger failed.  The battery lost it's charge and I couldn't get it back again.  Otherwise the Anti-Gravity batteries have been excellent performers.

They do require a special charger/maintainer. I have a C-Tek but there are others. The dongle is different to prevent them being plugged into non LiPo batteries. I let my Anti-Gravity battery run right down to nothing, didn't catch it for several months. The little C-Tek charger brought it back within a few hours. A year latter it will still start a neighbors tractor.

I've always been interested in the LiPo technology.... but I've asked this question before and don't remember getting an answer...

Just like a different charge profile is needed for a gel cell battery v wet cell/AGM battery... apparently a LiPo battery needs a different charger.... what is the specific charging profile needed for a LiPo battery, and/or how does it differ from the others...?

If the LiPo technology needs a different charger... what effect does a Harley electrical system, set up for an AGM/Wet cell batteries, have on a LiPo battery... for example driving for 4 to 6 hours a day on a multi-day trip...?
 
   They charge just fine on the bike. They need a different charger because a regular battery charger has a pulse added in ( for lack of a better word) that has ill effects on the LiPo plates. Something to do with the way they clean the plates in a acid filled battery has part of the chargers function. I bought a charger with the battery from anti gravity very happy with it. Was big bucks in Canada but it was worth it.  Bob

Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2017, 06:44:41 PM »
I bought the cheaper charger that Anti-Gravity sold with the first battery.  The second one I purchased the more expensive one they sold.  It runs a program that constantly charges and tests the battery and rests as necessary.  It is pretty slick.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/optimate-tm-291/
Winter is here.

Online FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2017, 06:59:43 PM »
I bought the cheaper charger that Anti-Gravity sold with the first battery.  The second one I purchased the more expensive one they sold.  It runs a program that constantly charges and tests the battery and rests as necessary.  It is pretty slick.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/optimate-tm-291/

Yup that's the same one I bought. Its slick.  Bob

Offline Jaycee1964

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2017, 07:15:33 PM »
I have had one for about 6 yrs.  Only bad is it don't like cold.  I have an Antigravity booster pack that I use in a.m.  Afternoons are fine..  Under 45-50* forget it.
If you have to stop and think about if it is right or wrong, Assume it is wrong.

Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2017, 08:32:05 PM »
I have had one for about 6 yrs.  Only bad is it don't like cold.  I have an Antigravity booster pack that I use in a.m.  Afternoons are fine..  Under 45-50* forget it.

I haven't used it in cold weather.  I've read that the snowmobile guys turn on their headlights before they try to start up and this brings up the charge.  I wonder if this would work with your booster pack?
Winter is here.

Offline m1marty

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2017, 12:48:18 AM »
This past winter/spring when the 124 (again, north of 12:1) was first fired, I took James advice (from Twin Power) and turned the ignition on for about 30 seconds. As a lithium battery gets put under load, it actually ramps up out put rather than drops off like a lead acid. Temps were 41 outside that day. Fired immediately and no issue. I have one in my little 95ci dxi as well that is ridden every chance I get. Hot, cold, in between- it fires very fast. Have also put them in 3 other of my Brothers bikes. Everyone likes them so far.
OFFO

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2017, 04:48:27 AM »
I bought the scorpion stinger and it states on their web site a recommended charger, but it the detailed description it states it is now smart enough to use any charger?  Below is from their website:

Scorpion Stinger lithium powersports batteries bring innovation to a new level. All Scorpion Stinger batteries use only the finest prismatic lithium cells, meaning that you get stronger starts, and more cycles than our competitors. Each battery contains its own Battery Management System built right into the battery. This ensures that the internal cells stay balanced with no special charger necessary.

Yet they also recommend a LI-Ion charger??? Copied below:

This is the battery charger we recommend for this battery: OptiMATE Lithium TM-471.

And this charger looks like:

OptiMATE Lithium 4s 12v 0.8 Amp 8-Step Smart Charger
TM-471
   
Was: $64.90
Sale Price:   $58.41 - No Tax
Free Priority Mail Shipping to USA.

So now I am a bit confused and think I will call them today to discuss.

I have a CE 3 phase charging system on the bagger, and that does not seem to be an issue.

Any insight to this topic gentlemen?  Better to buy their and call it good, or will the standard HD tender / charger for lead acid work as they have stated???

Mark

Offline No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2017, 06:57:33 AM »
  A charger for one of these lithium batteries is on my list to get. I'm going to call Twin Power and see what they suggest...and go from there.
  The one Mark222 posted looks like a good candidate.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Online Barrett

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2017, 07:34:41 AM »
The price of that scorpion stinger looks alright but it's made in china.
I don't think I could go there.

Online Will-Run

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2017, 09:15:44 AM »
For a charger, I bought the Optimate from AG. along with the battery . It will charge , maintain , test & recover if sick.
Lean Angle, " Is Life."

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2017, 10:32:03 AM »
Yep, I decided to optimate investment was worth the $$$ vs. Risk, no matter what they say about "use any charger"

Mark

Offline boooby1744

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2017, 06:57:36 PM »
I got the twin power battery last year along with the bigger Optimate 4s charger. So far so good. I hooked up the charger before I installed the battery. This charger has 10 stages,took aroun 16 hrs to go through all the steps.

Offline Mark222

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2017, 04:50:30 PM »
Quick follow up.......  Stinger battery arrived, as did the optimate charger.

First or all, how does anything this lightweight have the ability to store any energy????

Installed, charged, pressed go and it spins the S&S 111 without hesitation.  Fired right off, spinning much faster / better than 1 year old lead acid "big Crank" battery. 

I'm sold at this point, all I need it to do at this time is last a while to justify the expense.  But for now, all smiles....

Mark

Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2017, 05:22:14 PM »
Quick follow up.......  Stinger battery arrived, as did the optimate charger.

First or all, how does anything this lightweight have the ability to store any energy????

Installed, charged, pressed go and it spins the S&S 111 without hesitation.  Fired right off, spinning much faster / better than 1 year old lead acid "big Crank" battery. 

I'm sold at this point, all I need it to do at this time is last a while to justify the expense.  But for now, all smiles....

Mark
:up:
Welcome to the world of lithium.
Yeah, a byproduct is the huge weight loss. It's almost unreal.
Take care of it (foam packing under and on the sides to reduce vibration), and keep it properly charged, and I'm sure it will do right by you.
Not familiar with that brand, so any updates and info on Stinger would be great.

Offline 92flhtcu

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2017, 05:37:45 PM »
No Cents, i have been using our Bikemaster Li-Ion Maintainer since we came out with it(Bikemaster is another House Brand at Biker's choice(Like Twin Power is), the one James is going to recommend is #150906, it retails for $40, I have one of James first test batteries before we even had labels made up for them. Its going on 3 yrs, my other bikes are about on 2 yrs with them. No issues yet, spin them over better than they ever did
Need a bigger garage

Offline Appowner

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2017, 05:26:12 AM »
I too would like to hear an explanation of the need for a different charger.  Something a little more technical than "It has a different profile!"  I'm sure one of our local experts can come up with something to make it all clear for everyone.

Online ThumperDeuce

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Winter is here.

Offline Deye76

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2017, 12:01:40 PM »
"can be quick to talk down to others.  but through unsolicited comments from other members I realize others see the same."


I can relate,  :wink:,  a guy who no longer posts here.

Back to LI batteries. On a FXR a lead acid battery weighs about 16 pounds, usually rated about 305 CCA, barely fits in the space, same tight fit in a softie oil bag. To get it in and out requires tie wraps to the posts, generally a pia. After a friend bought a Battery Tender brand LI battery for his 117" fatboy and it spins it over effortlessly, even in the low 40's Fahrenheit, I decided to try one for my FXR. 2.5 pounds 360 CCA, 2 year warranty and $169 shipped from Summit. Now I haven't had it very long, but it may well be the best battery I've had. Room to spare in the battery space. If it doesn't perform like a lead acid I'll be sure to report, if it does, same thing.  thus far very impressed.
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

Offline truck

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2017, 01:35:36 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar.

Offline No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2017, 03:03:00 PM »
No Cents, i have been using our Bikemaster Li-Ion Maintainer since we came out with it(Bikemaster is another House Brand at Biker's choice(Like Twin Power is), the one James is going to recommend is #150906, it retails for $40, I have one of James first test batteries before we even had labels made up for them. Its going on 3 yrs, my other bikes are about on 2 yrs with them. No issues yet, spin them over better than they ever did

  thanks for the reply  :up:
I called and they did suggest the part# 150906 for a charger for the Twin Power battery I bought. I did buy the charger they suggested.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline adayrider

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2017, 07:46:41 PM »
With the special chargers these batteries need, why is it OK to let the bike's charging system connected to it, or isn't it OK?


Truck,
It's my understanding (which could be wrong) that any battery tender works fine till it drops below a certain amount something like 11 (can't remember the number or it might be brand specific) If it get below this charge then the special charger is required. Keep it above and it is chargeable from bike, charger, tender, or the special one.

Offline truck

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2017, 10:03:52 PM »
OK, got it. Thanks.
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar.