Author Topic: Replace cam chain tensioners?  (Read 826 times)

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Offline mrmike

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Replace cam chain tensioners?
« on: April 15, 2018, 12:51:17 PM »
Ok I opened up the Cam Chest and this is what I'm looking at.

Bike is an 03 RK with a 95" BB or SB for Max,lol

Heads and Jugs were done by Mr Sachs build and tune was done by Black Hills Ken dynoed at 106/107 and has been running like a champ for years. Got a tad over 30K on the build.

Should I be replacing these and if so how hard is this to do.

I have a trip to Laconia and parts north this June and I don't want to be "that Guy", lol

Add: Camplate was changed to SE with oil pump and hydraulic tensioners when build was done along with the Torrington bearings.

Thank you,

Mike
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 02:17:39 PM by mrmike »
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Offline moose

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 01:04:01 PM »
not really a clear picture but if your in there already do the inner cam bearings and replace for piece of mind


because on your trip thats all you will think about
Moose aka Glenn- If It Is To Be It Is Up To Me
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Offline JTM65

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 01:34:19 PM »
Cyco makes replacement shoes and tensioners. Looks like yours are wearing fairly slow. There are a lot of theories around about the cause of this failure on some bikes. It seems, IMHO, that there are a few different contributing factors, that when align in one bike at maximum impact, can have extremely rapid failure. 1) Pad material seems to have had poor quality control. Some pads show pitting and voids on inspection. 2) Some cam chains may have had poorly deburred links when assembled. 3) Tensioner spring force may not be optimized and causing accelerated wear. I don't believe the system itself is bad, just that there was insufficient understanding by the design engineers of the specs required or poor controls at the point of manufacture of the components already discussed. Looking at your system, after 30k, just replace and ride for another 30-40 K with no worries.

JT
Thanks, JT

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 02:26:37 PM »
I can't see chit!

Replace the tensioner pads and run it 30,000 more then repeat, if that is the question.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline kd

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 02:34:00 PM »
If you really want to know their full condition, you have to take them out to see what is hidden under the chain (cracks, pitting or disintegration) so you might as well put new ones back in and know you're OK.
KD

Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 02:35:48 PM »
It looks like you are doing a inspection. The Hybrid kit is hard to see the inner shoe and that is the old style silent chain on the inside. Your outer is wearing fine, it looks like it is down to the rollers but after that wear slows down.
The inner is hard to tell, but like I have said many times the nice thing about the hydraulic tentioners is the way that they fail, when the shoe wears out the oil piston pokes through the shoe and the chain goes slack and you know that you have a problem. I have had this happen a couple of times when I had a bad inner chain that froze up and I did not know it.
Depending on if you have adjustables push rods, if not you need to pull the upper rocker covers and the rocker arm support plate, pull the push rods, pull the cam plate.
If you have adjustables then you can pop the tubes and losen and pull the push rods then the cam plate.
Either way for the first time it is a days work. Changing the shoes is easy on the hydraulic they just bolt on and you can replace them with the aftermarket or new HD.
If you don't know what you are doing it can be a challenge and you are taking a chance of causing more problems than you solve, but that is how we learn.
On a scale of one to ten I would say it is a 4 for the first time you do it.
You are going to have 80+ percent of the people tell you "while you are in there" but I personally would run them, you should be good for at least another 20k.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 04:09:53 PM »
Mike, pics are a little hard to see/tell but I think you could button it up and freshen things next winter.

Offline mrmike

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 04:33:35 PM »
Sorry about the pics guys the inner pic was taken with an endoscope and even with that it was very difficult to get to see, the outer my iPhone which didn't do such a great job.

Here are a couple of more. the inner pic the tensioner seems to have no wear at least to me, click on the pic it gets bigger, at least it should, this whole posting pics thing is challenging to say the least. lol

Mike
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Offline PoorUB

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 04:45:05 PM »
If you have adjustable push rods, pull them out and get a decent look. Either that or button it up if you think they look ok. Out of focus pictures don't show us much!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline black

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 07:24:37 AM »
Sorry about the pics guys the inner pic was taken with an endoscope and even with that it was very difficult to get to see, the outer my iPhone which didn't do such a great job.

Here are a couple of more. the inner pic the tensioner seems to have no wear at least to me, click on the pic it gets bigger, at least it should, this whole posting pics thing is challenging to say the least. lol

Mike
If it was me I would change the front , and run the inner ,on my bike the inner wears a lot slower than the front
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Offline BVHOG

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 08:11:10 AM »
This is a no brainer, replace them now.
If you don't have a sense of humor you probably have no sense at all.

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 08:16:38 AM »
Since you was in there :) ,  I would change the tensioners ( HD is fine) and the inner cam bearings (24017-10) and lifters (2818SE from Larry),  and enjoy the riding season.

Offline smoserx1

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 10:08:35 AM »
Quote
If it was me I would change the front , and run the inner ,on my bike the inner wears a lot slower than the front

That outer one would be a piece of cake to change now...2 screws.

Offline timcosby

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 01:09:40 PM »
Sorry about the pics guys the inner pic was taken with an endoscope and even with that it was very difficult to get to see, the outer my iPhone which didn't do such a great job.

Here are a couple of more. the inner pic the tensioner seems to have no wear at least to me, click on the pic it gets bigger, at least it should, this whole posting pics thing is challenging to say the least. lol

Mike

the service manual shows that as unacceptable wear and to replace but as everyone else has said your good for another season and fix over winter.

Offline blackhillsken

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2018, 06:10:36 AM »
Mike,
I've always felt that when you see that the roller pin has gotten to the level of the tensioner pad, they're done.  Yours don't look like they're there yet, but I hear ya about not being "that guy".
If it was me, I'd look into the Zippers dual piston hydraulic tensioners (as long as they fit the upgrade plate you have, which I think they will).
I've had good results with them.
Ken

Offline lickidysplit

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 06:48:49 PM »
I have been "that guy"on a trip to Sturgis one year. Funny thing is I was planning on replacing them the winter after the trip. I think if it were me I would atleast replace the outer and ride on. I agree with Moose about thinking about it on your trip. I would do it for peace of mind. There is a lot of things that can go wrong out on the road and I would rather face them when they happen rather than overthinking everything every mile.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2018, 08:11:41 PM »
It is such a simple job for a shop, it's a no brainer to have done. For the home mechanic that is half skilled, it is still a pretty basic job, a manual a must. Some specialty tools needed.
There is no reason to put it off until winter, and "hope" they hold out. It's not like the bike will be out of commission for a month. A shop can do it easily in less than a day. The inexperienced home mechanic, a couple days, taking his time, of course.
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Offline mrmike

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Re: Replace cam chain tensioners?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2018, 08:13:23 AM »
After some consideration I'm sending the bike back to Blackhills Ken, he did the original BB on the bike and was the last person in the cam chest so I figure it will be a good idea that he gets to see it again and make sure everything's right.

New lifters are already on the list for replacement.

If I had been into this thing a couple of months ago (like I should have) I may have sat down with it and played but riding season is here and so is building season which means my side jobs are picking up.

Plus he's a professional and I'm an idiot.

Bike goes in on May 1, I will ask Ken to take a few photos so you guys can see what kind of wear it shows after 30K with a professional builder and tune this way maybe other guys out there that are wondering can have a reference point.

You guys are right I don't need to have this hanging over me for the whole riding season.

Thanks

Mike
I'm not leaving til I have a good time